Anglicans, do you see yourselves as more Protestant, or more Catholic?

[PaladinValer]

In my opinion you are in an Anglican Sect!

To you and your fellows!

Luckyfredsdad. Clerk in Holy Orders.

Let me quickly remind you that in STR, the Continuing Churches and their members have STR as their home forum here.

 

[ebia]

EBIA. FEB.2010.

On the whole, though, were not a church that draws the line in the sand about that sort of issue.

LUCKYFREDSDAD!
Without wishing to be rude or insensitive you are wrong! Anglicanism is simply catholicism with an English face, it is the distillation of catholicism deriving from two thousand years of belief in the Revelation of Christ ,Scripture and the Seven Ecumenical Councils. These latter, as I have been taught are a means of communication and input by the Holy Ghost within the structure of the Body of Christ here on earth.

If your Church doesn't believe in these things, then no matter what is on the Church Notice Board or whatever, it does not fill the criteria demanded by the Anglican Church for membership. It doesn't hold to the faith once revealed by Christ to the Saints, taught by Him to the apostles and passed on to the Ancient Catholic Fathers! In my opinion you are in an Anglican Sect!

To you and your fellows!

Luckyfredsdad. Clerk in Holy Orders.

Yawn

 

[Socktastic]

I would say that the Anglican church is Catholic in nature, but Protestant in that it rejects papal infallibility and such trappings. I'm not sure I could say with any great certainty that the church is one without the other, or that I am able to place myself on any spectrum without sitting in the middle.

 

[RefCath]

We are both Catholic and Reformed

 

[Decanus]

I'd say Catholic in the way we are open to all without distinction. We have open communion. You do not have to be a member to partake in this sacrament.
I believe the Anglican Church is truly Universal and accessible to everybody.

I would say we were Catholic in the way we hold tradition and Liturgy.

However, I would say we were Protestant in that we do not accept the Pope as head of the Church, or as infallible, we hold more to the scriptures, we have the 39 articles, we allow free thought and can think for ourselves. We do not think we need priests to absolve us from Sins. Among other reasons.

Therefore, i'd say we were catholic, with a small 'c', and protestant in the way we reject many Catholic beliefs.

 

[LuxMundi]

I'We do not think we need priests to absolve us from Sins.

I do Which I suppose indicates just how diverse Anglicanism is.

 

[Decanus]

I do Which I suppose indicates just how diverse Anglicanism is.

Haha, I guess that's true
Well, perhaps I should rephrase it to: A lot of us believe that we do not need to go to a priest for confession.
It really depends on if you are High Church/Anglo-Catholic, Broad Church, or Low Church/Evangelical.
But anyway, I digress

 

[Cjwinnit]

I do

"need" is such a strong word though

 

[R_A]

Protestant, although retaining those elements of pre-Reformation Catholic Christianity that were Biblical and Apostolic.

This.

I would add that 'Protestant' is a misleading word, because in popular use it's a relative concept that definitionally must rest on something else to 'protest against', while 'Catholic' is unfortunately taken as a universal concept, that is self-sustaining. To be 'Protestant' depends on the existence of the 'other' entity, while it's possible to be 'Catholic' just by yourself, even on a desert island.

So Anglicans are definitely Protestant in terms of doctrine and belief; but their Protestantism is, at a deeper level, just Early Churchism; as much as the Church Fathers would've been 'Protestants' in 1600 (and they would be, considering what they say in their writings).

That is me with my catholic hat on. Now let me speak with my protestant hat on:

We don't accept sola scriptura (the belief that Scripture alone is the only source of authority), which is kind of a cornerstone belief of Protestantism. We accept three sources of authority, which, strangely enough, are Scripture, Tradition, and Reason

Anglicans most certainly accept sola scriptura. If for no other reason than because the Church Fathers espoused it. See post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7594261/#post58615101

Now Scripture, Tradition and Reason is definitely an Anglican formulary, but not in the way you say it. There is a definite hierarchy, with the first being first, and the latter two secondary; or sometimes with three levels, we have scripture -> reason -> tradition. No Anglican divine says that the latter two are able to reverse the authoritative teaching of the Bible, certainly not in the way the Catholics view their Tradition as equally as valid as plain and clear Scriptural statements that go entirely contrary.

The 'tradition' and 'reason' bits were added by Richard Hooker (and subsequent divines) to contrast Anglicans to the Calvinists, for sources of knowledge. Calvinists argued (and still argue) that there is nothing else to read and study, especially not about God, outside the Bible; they object that evidentiary proofs for Christianity are ultimately incapable, even irrelevant. Anglicans clearly argue that evidentiary arguments for Christianity, the uses of reason and human tradition both in our life and in our understanding of God, are useful, and true. Only that they take second place to Scripture.

For example, if the Scripture says that Trinity is true, and reason says that it is not, a rationalist, and/or unitarian, accepts what reason says. The Anglican accepts what Scripture says, and views the trinity as a mystery that doesn't have to accord with his reason for him to embrace it as a truth.

 

[mark46]

catholic, reformed, evangelical and charismatic.

We are both Catholic and Reformed

 

[mark46]

We've had hundreds and hundreds of posts on sola scriptura. You say that of course Anglicans believe in sola scriptura. After all, the early church fathers did. OK, I'll accept that, although many Anglicans might not. And yes, I believe in sola scriptura as it was taught by the ECF's. This understanding was even the same form many during the period of the Reformation. HOWEVER, relatively few Anglicans believe in sola scriptura as the term is used (I should say abused) in the 21st century.

I also believe in the primacy of Scripture, as was taught by the ECF's, not as the term is used and abused in the 21st century.
========================================
I believe with an Anglican of old,

"the living core of the Christian faith was revealed in Scripture, illumined by tradition, vivified in personal experience, and confirmed by reason. Scripture [however] is primary, revealing the Word of God ‘so far as it is necessary for our salvation."

I would note that primacy is NOT in Scripture. Primacy is in the core of our faith, Jesus Christ. We MUST understand that our faith is about living out our relationship with Jesus, not about our relationship to Holy Scripture, which is the primary source to learn about Jesus. I would also note, that Scripture is primary "so far as is necessary for our salvation". Scripture is not necessarily primary for non-salvation issues.

Have I stated what the Articles teach?

========================
Finally, I will leave "an exercise for the reader". What is necessary for our salvation other then our faith in Jesus? Can Scripture really be considered primary for how we do Church, or how long our hair is, or for so many social, moral and political issues within society and within the Church.

We are to love Jesus and be him to the world. That is what is primary. And yes, we learn this from Scripture, from the 1st and 2nd commands, from the Great Commisions (to us all and to the 70).

This.

I would add that 'Protestant' is a misleading word, because in popular use it's a relative concept that definitionally must rest on something else to 'protest against', while 'Catholic' is unfortunately taken as a universal concept, that is self-sustaining. To be 'Protestant' depends on the existence of the 'other' entity, while it's possible to be 'Catholic' just by yourself, even on a desert island.

So Anglicans are definitely Protestant in terms of doctrine and belief; but their Protestantism is, at a deeper level, just Early Churchism; as much as the Church Fathers would've been 'Protestants' in 1600 (and they would be, considering what they say in their writings).

That is me with my catholic hat on. Now let me speak with my protestant hat on:


Anglicans most certainly accept sola scriptura. If for no other reason than because the Church Fathers espoused it. See post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7594261/#post58615101

Now Scripture, Tradition and Reason is definitely an Anglican formulary, but not in the way you say it. There is a definite hierarchy, with the first being first, and the latter two secondary; or sometimes with three levels, we have scripture -> reason -> tradition. No Anglican divine says that the latter two are able to reverse the authoritative teaching of the Bible, certainly not in the way the Catholics view their Tradition as equally as valid as plain and clear Scriptural statements that go entirely contrary.

The 'tradition' and 'reason' bits were added by Richard Hooker (and subsequent divines) to contrast Anglicans to the Calvinists, for sources of knowledge. Calvinists argued (and still argue) that there is nothing else to read and study, especially not about God, outside the Bible; they object that evidentiary proofs for Christianity are ultimately incapable, even irrelevant. Anglicans clearly argue that evidentiary arguments for Christianity, the uses of reason and human tradition both in our life and in our understanding of God, are useful, and true. Only that they take second place to Scripture.

For example, if the Scripture says that Trinity is true, and reason says that it is not, a rationalist, and/or unitarian, accepts what reason says. The Anglican accepts what Scripture says, and views the trinity as a mystery that doesn't have to accord with his reason for him to embrace it as a truth.

 

[Albion]

This.

I would add that 'Protestant' is a misleading word, because in popular use it's a relative concept that definitionally must rest on something else to 'protest against', while 'Catholic' is unfortunately taken as a universal concept, that is self-sustaining. To be 'Protestant' depends on the existence of the 'other' entity, while it's possible to be 'Catholic' just by yourself, even on a desert island.

I know that there are some people who mistakenly think that the word (Protestant) comes from being in protest against Catholicism, and they are often members of one of the out-of-the-mainstream religious movemenst of fairly recent years. However, for must people, the word means only a certain set of ideas that put all of us at odds with some of the dogmas and practices of Roman Catholicism. That's how I think the word is meant to be used in this thread.

So Anglicans are definitely Protestant in terms of doctrine and belief; but their Protestantism is, at a deeper level, just Early Churchism; as much as the Church Fathers would've been 'Protestants' in 1600 (and they would be, considering what they say in their writings).

I'm fine with that. Protestantism is, inherently, a movement to restore the faith of the Apostolic Church.

Now Scripture, Tradition and Reason is definitely an Anglican formulary, but not in the way you say it.

Did I say it?

There is a definite hierarchy, with the first being first, and the latter two secondary; or sometimes with three levels, we have scripture -> reason -> tradition. No Anglican divine says that the latter two are able to reverse the authoritative teaching of the Bible, certainly not in the way the Catholics view their Tradition as equally as valid as plain and clear Scriptural statements that go entirely contrary.

Yes. Reason and Tradition are merely ways of apprehending the meaning of Scripture.

 

[Anna Scott]

So this has played on my mind many times in the past. The Anglican church was born out of the English reformation, however some would argue that it has a different identity than other Church's that came from the reformation. It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant. However, to many and Anglicans and other Protestants, the Anglican Church is Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. What is your positioning on the 'Anglican spectrum' as it were. Protestant or Catholic?

Child of the Goddess,
I'm not sure that I agree that the Anglican Church was born out of the English Reformation. When Henry broke with Rome, England was basically Catholic without a Pope. Protestant influences entered later. The degree to which the CofE was Catholic or Protestant fluxed, depending upon the beliefs of the Monarch.

My beliefs are definitely more Catholic than Protestant.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Albion]

Child of the Goddess,
I'm not sure that I agree that the Anglican Church was born out of the English Reformation. When Henry broke with Rome, England was basically Catholic without a Pope. Protestant influences entered later. The degree to which the CofE was Catholic or Protestant fluxed, depending upon the beliefs of the Monarch.

We can argue this several different ways, always being careful to choose just the right words. However, the fact remains that the Church in England ceased to accept the Papacy's jurisdiction. No, that doesn't mean that a new religion was created then, but it doesn't mean that they simply rearranged a few chairs in the nave, either.

 

[Anna Scott]

We can argue this several different ways, always being careful to choose just the right words. However, the fact remains that the Church in England ceased to accept the Papacy's jurisdiction. No, that doesn't mean that a new religion was created then, but it doesn't mean that they simply rearranged a few chairs in the nave, either.

Albion,
Never meant to imply the break with Rome simply meant "rearranging a few chairs in the nave."

The tension between the swing towards Protestantism and the swing back towards Catholicism continues to this very day---as made evident right here, right now, with this thread entitled, Anglicans, do you see yourselves as more Protestant, or more Catholic?

The answer to that question is not the same for every Anglican.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

My most recent Belief-O-Matic results:

1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
2. Eastern Orthodox (94%)
3. Roman Catholic (94%)

So, yes, I am more Protestant than Catholic... but not by a huge margin. I'm also more Protestant than Orthodox... but not by a huge margin.

I have some quibbles with the test and didn't like the choices on some of the questions, but I think it got the Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox balance right.

 

[PaladinValer]

Actually, I'd say you are pretty Anglo-Catholic, as that test assumes Anglicanism as Protestant to begin with.

In other words, it depends on how high up Roman Catholicism and/or Eastern Orthodoxy is would be a good suggestion to your theological emphasis.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Actually, I'd say you are pretty Anglo-Catholic, as that test assumes Anglicanism as Protestant to begin with.

In other words, it depends on how high up Roman Catholicism and/or Eastern Orthodoxy is would be a good suggestion to your theological emphasis.

Interesting thought, something to ponder. I've never really considered the Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox schism to be a good thing, just something Christians have to accept as reality and deal with. And I don't restrict my reading or thinking to any one of those traditions. I.e., I like Luther and Augustine and Gregory of Nyssa.

But so far what methods of worship and church organization I'm used to, well, I come from a Baptist and Pentecostal background. What familiarity I have with liturgical worship comes from my visits to Episcopal and Lutheran churches. My new church describes itself as "emerging Anglo-Catholic" and I seem to fit in pretty well there.

 

[Dewi Sant]

I consider myself first and foremost Christian.
Secondly I am grateful for being baptised at a young age into the English Church, the Church of my ancestors, the Church of Lancelot Andrewes, Saint Hilda, and Anselm of Canterbury.
Thirdly, I am grateful for the worship offered by the English Church to our Almighty God.
I am Catholic in as much as I am aware of the inheritance I claim from previous generations and am pleased to offer such forms of praise and thanksgiving. I believe Our Lord listens to all those who earnestly believe in Him...inasmuch as 'belief' is possible, to remember a famous Anglican saying "Faith Seeking Understanding".

Anglican[ism] is a celebration of the relationship of humanity with its creator as practiced in this realm and those in communion with the See of Canterbury.

 

[Fishers of Men]

Protestant