Anglicans, do you see yourselves as more Protestant, or more Catholic?

[GeminiMoon]

So this has played on my mind many times in the past. The Anglican church was born out of the English reformation, however some would argue that it has a different identity than other Church's that came from the reformation. It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant. However, to many and Anglicans and other Protestants, the Anglican Church is Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. What is your positioning on the 'Anglican spectrum' as it were. Protestant or Catholic?

 

[Catherineanne]

So this has played on my mind many times in the past. The Anglican church was born out of the English reformation, however some would argue that it has a different identity than other Church's that came from the reformation. It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant. However, to many and Anglicans and other Protestants, the Anglican Church is Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. What is your positioning on the 'Anglican spectrum' as it were. Protestant or Catholic?

Well, my view would be that Anglicanism does not define itself in relation to any other denomination, and that its catholic identity is far more important than its relationship to Roman Catholicism 400 years ago.

Nicene talks of 'one holy catholic and apostolic church.' The Anglican communion is part of that church, and therefore 'catholic' is far more central to our identity than 'protestant'.

The abuses of the Roman Catholic church which were protested by the Reformation are largely gone, fwiw. The Reformation did not just reform protestant churches, but Rome as well.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I'm not yet officially Anglican, though I have been one at heart for years now. I've visited several local Episcopal churches, with a few more on my list. Likely I'll choose one of them soon and make the change official. The one that seems most promising, and is next on my list to visit, describes itself as "emerging" Anglo-Catholic. That could be right up my alley. I hope so, but we shall see. I am orthodox on core theology (creed-type stuff), and if they aren't, that could blow the deal.

I don't really identify with either Protestantism or Catholicism. I'm just a Christian, and I don't much like being shoved into those boxes. I think we should all be (small "c") catholic, i.e., one universal church, but not necessarily under the leadership of Rome.

But by background, I'm much more accustomed to the Protestant side, having been Baptist or Pentecostal most of the time since I became a Christian. There are doctrinal matters that I think Catholics or Orthodox are more correct on than Protestants are, but not overall, else I would have converted.

 

[mark46]

I believe the key is whether we believe in an apostolic Church or not.
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It seems to me, those who consider it important to be part of the apostolic church consider themselves "catholic". This is true of Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, EO and OO. We all consider ourselves "catholic".

The key issue is not what Rome calls us. To the RCC, we are certainly Protestants.
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So, for me, I consider myself to be catholic.
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For me the Church started 2000 years ago, not 500 years ago. For me it makes little sense to define one's faith walk by its relationship to the failures of the Bishop of Rome. There clearly were excesses needing to be fixed at the time of the Reformation. There are clearly Roman theological opinions that Rome considers doctrine, without any consensus from the ecumencal Church. And there are clearly Roman policy decisions that should not bind or define others (e.g. celibate priesthood).
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ALL THIS HAVING BEEN SAID
The roots of the Anglican Communion are indeed heavily influenced by the Reformation and by Calvinism. Many Anglicans, for the past 500 years, have considered themselves Protestants (and Calvinists). Part of the reason for this has been the considerable dislike of Rome and much Anglican opposition to all that Rome stands for. For me, it is time to grow up, and stop such childish attitudes. But, then, these are my personal views.

 

[PaladinValer]

So this has played on my mind many times in the past. The Anglican church was born out of the English reformation, however some would argue that it has a different identity than other Church's that came from the reformation. It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant. However, to many and Anglicans and other Protestants, the Anglican Church is Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. What is your positioning on the 'Anglican spectrum' as it were. Protestant or Catholic?

Anglicans are protestants, not Protestants. We didn't reject Catholic and Apostolic teachings, doctrines, and ideas like Protestantism does, but we did and still do protest against the added doctrines and abuses.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I consider myself a Christian. That is all. Carry on.

 

[MichaelNZ]

We don't accept sola scriptura (the belief that Scripture alone is the only source of authority), which is kind of a cornerstone belief of Protestantism. We accept three sources of authority, which, strangely enough, are Scripture, Tradition, and Reason

However, when the British monarch is crowned, the Archbishop of Canterbury asks the monarch the following as part of the coronation oath:

"Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law?"

 

[brevis]

A tough question, for what's a protestant to begin with? The Presbiterian? The Lutherans? The Methodists? The Quakers?

I think that the Church of England in particular shaped its theology in conflict (or tension if you prefer that term) between several trends. That is not say that Anglicanism = (RCC + Protestant)/2; Rather the Church of England matured in that conflict and grew from it.

 

[ebia]

So this has played on my mind many times in the past. The Anglican church was born out of the English reformation, however some would argue that it has a different identity than other Church's that came from the reformation. It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant. However, to many and Anglicans and other Protestants, the Anglican Church is Catholic, just not Roman Catholic. What is your positioning on the 'Anglican spectrum' as it were. Protestant or Catholic?

Neither really.

 

[Timothy]

Protestant.

 

[seeking_perfection]

catholic.

 

[Albion]

Protestant, although retaining those elements of pre-Reformation Catholic Christianity that were Biblical and Apostolic.

 

[MKJ]

it all depends on what one means by those terms.

I'd say if it isn't catholic, it has no claim to being the Church.

Being reformed (small "r") is only valid in so far as there was actually an error needing reforming. I think that there were such substantial errors which justified the English Church in breaking off from Rome.

(On the other hand, I think Protestantism also has errors)

But in a way that is an historical accident. I don't particularly see that the OC, for example, ever had need of a reform of that kind. They are really catholic though.

So I guess I think catholicity is an essential, while being part of the Protestant Reformation was an situational thing arising from heterodox teaching on the part of Rome. It isn't essential in the same way though it undoubtably affected the Anglican Church significantly.

 

[CatholicAtHeart]

I believe we are as Catholic as the Roman Catholics, if that makes sense. We're all part of the 'One Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church'.
We just don't fall under Papal supremacy.
To be honest, I'd say I happened to be an 'Ultra-conservative' Catholic, just in the English church.
The church in England hasn't always been under the Roman Catholic strand I think... I read something somewhere... I think it was the Norman invasion which made us part of the Roman Church. I don't know... but anyway.

Catholic.

 

[MKJ]

I believe we are as Catholic as the Roman Catholics, if that makes sense. We're all part of the 'One Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church'.
We just don't fall under Papal supremacy.
To be honest, I'd say I happened to be an 'Ultra-conservative' Catholic, just in the English church.
The church in England hasn't always been under the Roman Catholic strand I think... I read something somewhere... I think it was the Norman invasion which made us part of the Roman Church. I don't know... but anyway.

Catholic.

No, that isn't really quite the case. England geographically was always under the authority of the patriarch of the West. Early on there was not much actual contact though and what is sometimes called Celtic Christianity had some particular traditions of its own. After Augustine of Canterbury was sent to England from Rome, there was more contact, and eventually Rome insisted on the English Church adopting the Roman usages. This was all pretty much ironed out after the synod of Whitby and the English Church recognized the bishop of Rome as having the legitimate authority to make such decisions.

After the Norman conquest - at a time when Rome was making claims of increasing authority everywhere - there was a period of increasing tension between England and Rome for several hundred years which culminated in the English Reformation. The argument here by the English was essentially that Rome was claiming authority beyond what it legitimatly posessed, or you might say a different kind of authority than what rightly belonged to the patriarch, though it was expressed in very political and practical terms. There was also the argument given that the monarch ought to exercise some of the prerogatives previously ascribed to the the patriarch and that indeed a patriarch was never required etc. That idea has had more or less truck in the Anglican Church at various times, and it is undoubtedly a change from historic orthodox Christianity. It also in practice had some rather unpleasant results. It is a much more moderate teaching today. Over time there was also the rejection of other Roman teachings.

So from a really catholic perspective in the English Church, the only real justification for schism from the proper authority held by Rome was heterodox teaching by Rome.

 

[CatholicAtHeart]

Thank you for clearing that one up for me!

 

[JustAnglican]

I see no resemblance between the Anglican church and the so called "Protestant" churches. If I have to pick a side - I would say Catholic. If i would move to a country where only the catholic and protestant churches exist - i would attend the catholic church.

I don't think it is fair though to try to put the Anglican church in any of the two boxes.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

It is by no doubt, by Catholic standards, that the Anglican Church is Protestant.

What ,Catholic Standards are these you mention? Are you telling us that we should have for instance, additions to Christ 's Revelation, or perhaps be arrogant enough to call a General /Ecumenical Council, packed with people bought with Church money, that is in fact a Robber Council such as Trent? Or perhaps we should make an addition to the Creed of Nice? Best of all we could pick a stray piece of scripture and concoct a farrago of nonsense, entirely
unrelated to the subject and claim superior jurisdiction!

Only trouble is, Rome thought about 500 years ago!

 

[Albion]

I see no resemblance between the Anglican church and the so called "Protestant" churches. If I have to pick a side - I would say Catholic. If i would move to a country where only the catholic and protestant churches exist - i would attend the catholic church.

I don't think it is fair though to try to put the Anglican church in any of the two boxes.

no resemblance? At bottom, Anglicanism is a Protestant church that has retained the liturgy, episcopacy, sacraments (some), and customs (some) of pre-Reformation Catholicism. Otherwise, it's quite unlike today's Catholicism, even to the elements in it that some consider weaknesses, such as tolerating a wide range of beliefs and practices.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

Augustine was sent to England.[quote/]

Again, Augustine was't sent to England, but Britain, the whole of these isles were one church, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and whoever sent Augustine was breaking the canons of the Church by interfering in another bishop's jurisdiction. When Augustine landed here, he was ,'given,' a welcome by a bishop and the use of at least two British Churches for his use! When he finally deigned to meet the Catholics within Britain, they rejected, so we are told, Rome's claims.

This was all pretty much ironed out after the synod of Whitby and the English Church recognized the bishop of Rome as having the legitimate authority to make such decisions.[quote/]

Note, The Synod of Whitby was called to iron out calendar problems and the King dominated the proceedings! All that happened was that a large proportion of Celts agreed to follow the western calendar then in use!

Whilst we were part of Western Christendom and Catholics to book, the Saxons Kings, kept the Bishop of Rome at arms length as Primate of the West. He still had no jurisdiction anywhere other than than where they chose to allow and acknowledge it! This was according to at least three General Councils. William the Butcher, though he got the throne with the help of the pope, refused to acknowledge his authority in any different way from his predecessors. Under Henry II, the English Bishops approached the the monarch with a view to cutting off the pope from our communion.

Finally henry VIII didn't do any thing that his predecessors hadn't done or said. he simply put,for the most part,the extant law in to practice. neither did he leave the Church or break communion with the Pope, it was the papacy that broke Communion with Henry and later with the Church in England