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Anglican vs. Methodist

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Artos

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The distinctive element in Methodism is HOLINESS IN HEART AND LIFE.
John Wesley said that the reason why God raised the Methodists was to spread 'scriptural holiness' throughout the land.

Its like the Salvation Army where their focus is on social concerns....or the Pentecostals whose focus is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit.
They hold something that is from the common pool (for Christians) but highlight it as their special calling/focus/charism.

Hence I wanted to know what is for Anglicans- that special calling.....
 
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Fish and Bread

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Artos said:
The distinctive element in Methodism is HOLINESS IN HEART AND LIFE.
John Wesley said that the reason why God raised the Methodists was to spread 'scriptural holiness' throughout the land.

Its like the Salvation Army where their focus is on social concerns....or the Pentecostals whose focus is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit.
They hold something that is from the common pool (for Christians) but highlight it as their special calling/focus/charism.

Hence I wanted to know what is for Anglicans- that special calling.....

That's a difficult question, but if I had to put something out there, I'd probably say our focus is on unity and inclusivity. I know that first part sounds pretty funny giving all the divisiveness going on in the Anglican Communion right now, but just because we fall short of our calling sometimes doesn't mean we don't have it. :)

When England kept going back and forth between Roman Catholicism and Protestanism, Elizabeth realizes some sort of compromise was going to have to be struck to bring Catholics and Protestants to the same table. She took some of the main things perceived to be important to the Catholics like liturgy, liturgical seasons, real presence in the eucharist, the historic episcopate, and the three-fold ministry and some of the things most important to the Protestants like salvation by grace through faith, scripture as being sufficent to salvation, a biblical focus, no Pope, etc and combined them into one tradition. To Anglicans, our tradition encompasses the best things about being Catholic and the best things about being Protestant while adding in a little bit of flavor that is distinctive to Anglicanism. Nowadays, that sort of thinking manifests itself in strong ecumenical ties with both Evangelical Lutherans and Roman Catholics, as well as in bridging the modern gaps between liberals and conservatives (Sometimes unsuccessfully). We also tend out to the outcasts -- women, gays, blacks, AIDS patients, etc. and make them full partners in our work of reaching towards the Kingdom of Heaven. :) We like to have vigorous debates and then slap each other on the cap and have a tea or coffie hour. ;)

The other thing I think you might tend to find in Anglicanism is a certain level of intellectualism. Anglicans tend to think a lot, too much some might say! A lot of famous scientists and political leaders in the United States have been Episcopalian historically, which is not a coincidence in my view. Of course, in the realm of faith, maybe intellect isn't always such an asset, since sometimes it can be a roadblock, but I have to love a church where many of the parish halls have posters of Jesus that say "I came to die for your sins, not take away your brain.". It was really neat for me to find a church where I could think things through without being yelled at and called an apostate or something for questioning Church doctrines from time to time. :)

John
 
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Fish and Bread

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Artos said:
Would the BCP be the distinctive element of Anglicanism?

I think one could certainly say that having a BCP is one distinctive element of Anglicanism. I've never heard of a province that considered itself Anglican, in or out of communion with Canterbury, that didn't have a Book of Common Prayer of some sort. Of course, generally speaking, each country has it's own version of the BCP, with local adaptations.

John
 
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ebia

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Artos said:
OK. So what are the DISTINCTIVE essentials of Anglicanism?
(Am not talking about the common beliefs shared by all Christians)....
And you got your answer - diversity and lack of dogmatism. Anglicanism is first and formost a compromise. Long shall it remain one.

You can find a few other things that the whole of Anglicanism holds to, like the 3 fold order of ministry (although a few dioceses would dearly like to dump it), but not much. Hooker's three-legged-stool is about all we have that we all cling to and call our own.

I think one could certainly say that having a BCP is one distinctive element of Anglicanism. I've never heard of a province that considered itself Anglican, in or out of communion with Canterbury, that didn't have a Book of Common Prayer of some sort. Of course, generally speaking, each country has it's own version of the BCP, with local adaptations.
If you include all the Provinces' main service books (Common Worship, A Prayer Book for Australia, etc) then they are getting close to such a diverse bunch that you could throw in quite a few service books from other denominations without anyone noticing.

The BCP stopped being a visible sign of unity as soon as the first province (whichever it might have been) delicenced the 1662 BCP.
 
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PaladinValer

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ebia said:
Even defining what is official Anglican teaching ends up being a matter of opinion. There is no archive of official dogmas or anything.

Not true.

Anglicans believe it is valid and licit. The RCC does not.

They are entitled to their opinion, though they are mistaken.

A good number of Anglicans would not count the 'other' five as sacraments.

This would unfortunately be a reversal of historical Anglican practice however.

Currently true, but not historically, and not currently in all diocese.

No, historically true. And those dioceses need to be repremanded then.

Just about.

Hallmark, actually.

Only just hanging on in some dioceses.

And in those dioceses, they need to either align or leave.

Far from all Anglicans believe this, whatever ARCIC might like to pretend.

It is the historical belief.

I'd suggest this is only true for a minority of Anglicans.

That doesn't mean it is any less Anglican. The fact that it is a part of our Holy Tradition is the crux of the argument.

Kind of. There is no single version currently 'valid' in all Provinces.

Not kind of; definite. It is the BCP.

Does any church think it wasn't?

No, but we have historical proof that we do unlike most others.
 
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ebia

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PaladinValer said:
Not true.
So point them out. Where are they?

They are entitled to their opinion, though they are mistaken.
I agree.

This would unfortunately be a reversal of historical Anglican practice however.
Would it? You can read the 39 articles as either way on the "5 commonly called sacraments"



No, historically true. And those dioceses need to be repremanded then.
Since weekly or even frequent communion was unheard of for most of Anglican history, how can you claim to be historically a Eucharistically centred Church? The dioceses and parishes I'm thinking of a pretty close to the model implied by the 1662 rubrics.


And in those dioceses, they need to either align or leave.
And they same the same about yours.

It is the historical belief.
I'd need convincing of that. I'd be amazed if the number of Anglicans that believe it now constituted anything approaching a majority.


That doesn't mean it is any less Anglican. The fact that it is a part of our Holy Tradition is the crux of the argument.
This is getting very close to a True Scotsman. How can you claim something as distinctively Anglican if by far the majority of Anglicans would disagree with you?

Not kind of; definite. It is the BCP.
There is no version of the Book of Common Prayer that is licenced in all dioceses. I couldn't definitively say that there are any dioceses without any licenced book bearing that title, but there are plenty where the only book bearing that title that is licenced is the 1662, and that is virtually never used.


No, but we have historical proof that we do unlike most others.
Everyone makes that claim.
 
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ebia

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Artos said:
Hey, Ebia, what is the relation between the "Orthodox Catholic in the English Style" and the Anglican Church? Are they part of your church?
I read Othodox Catholic in the English Style as Anglican pretending to be Catholic.
 
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ebia said:
I read Othodox Catholic in the English Style as Anglican pretending to be Catholic.

Or Anglican Use parishes in the RCC. There are a few RCC parishes in the US that have been given permission to use a liturgy similar to what is in the Book of Common Prayer.
 
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Fish and Bread

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If I recall correctly, Paladin has in the past indentified himself as a member of the Episcopal Church (USA). I think he'd generally be considered a member of the Anglo-Catholic wing of ECUSA by most folks. I'm not sure if that's the way he self-identifies, though. Hopefully he'll drop by and answer for himself. :)

The Episcopal Church, which I am also a part of, offers room for a wide variety of viewpoints. We have some Anglo-Catholics, some sola scriptura Lutheran-like folks, Spongian liberals, and a whole range of folks in between and beyond those categorizations. We kind of like it that way. :) Speaking for myself, that's kind of what I anticipate heaven will be like someday -- a lot of people with different outlooks united by love for God and each other.

John
 
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ebia

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masuwerte said:
Or Anglican Use parishes in the RCC. There are a few RCC parishes in the US that have been given permission to use a liturgy similar to what is in the Book of Common Prayer.
I am aware that there are RCC parishes licenced to use and Anglican style liturgy, but that isn't what the phrase usually seems to mean.
 
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ebia

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Artos said:
Is that Anglo Catholic then? High Church Anglican?
Yes and no.
"Orthodox Catholic in the English Style" tends to mean an Anglo-Catholic who wants to pretend they are part of the same church as the RCC, but doesn't want to cross the Tiber because that would involve actually taking on board all the RCC's dogmas, including the one's he or she doesn't like.
 
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