Anglican vs. Methodist

[Tumnus]

Just curious...

I know John Wesley was Anglican and I think I noticed in another post a comment to the effect that he remained an Anglican all of his life. So what's the difference between the two? Have they diverged over time?

-T

 

[seeking.IAM]

There are certainly some differences. I worship in both and can only share my own experience. Note, I am an occasional pew warmer in an Episcopal church, not an expert or even a member.

In terms of worship experience, the Episcopal Church (ECUSA) is more centered on the Eucharist and the UMC is more centered on the Minister's message. Anglicans gather for Eucharist every week. Methodists' communion frequency varies, often only once a month (I think the Anglicans may be on to something here. I have never been to a bad Eucharist, but I've heard many a poor sermon.)

My other observation (in my limited experience) is that ECUSA worship is more liturgical, more formal, and more reverential (my opinion) while UMC worship may more frequently found to be more contemporary. This observation may only reflect my bias, however, since I am a refugee from the informality of my UMC, and have found a "high church" Episcopal Church that I like to worship in.

Both ECUSA and UMC have open Communion.

I don't find lots of theological differences that cause problems for me. When I became disillusioned with my UMC and decided to visit other churches, I thought I'd start closest to the UMC's theological roots. Since we came from the Anglican's, I chose to start visiting there. It's been a good experience for me. I'm still a United Methodist, but I could easily be Anglican.

I would add that recent decisions of the church on the bodys' official stance about ordination of homosexual clergy are somewhat different in that the ECUSA will ordain practicing gay persons and the UMC will not--at least to this point. Within the body of believers, you will find all sort of opinions on this in both churches. Both churches are accepting of homosexual persons in the pew, in my experience. Both churches accept female clergy.

seeking.IAM
<><

 

[Artos]

I often joke (hey, its a joke so pl dont get offended)- with my Anglican friends that "Methodists are RE-FORMED ANGLICANS" and Anglicans are "DE-FORMED METHODISTS"....

 

[PaladinValer]

As an Anglican:

1. We believe in the importance of Apostolic Succession and have a valid and licit line.
2. We hold to the Seven Sacraments, although Baptism and Holy Communion are seen as the most important.
3. We are Eucharist-orientated
4. We hold to Holy Tradition, especially to the Seven Ecumenical Councils
5. We hold to the historic doctrine of ordained ministry, deacon-priest-bishop, as anciently taught.
6. We believe in the Real Presence, except that we believe it to be physical as well as spiritual in terms of Presence.
7. We venerate the Saints, and hold St. Mary the Theotokos in great honor. We even have an Anglican rosary.
8. We have both Western (Vatican Catholic) as well as Eastern (Eastern Orthodox) influences.
9. The Book of Common Prayer
10. Founded in the 1st century ce.

 

[Artos]

To Paladin
This is true if you are a High Church Anglican. There are Broad Church Anglicans and where I am, the Anglicans are primarily ..and extremely Low Church.....In fact, at one time the Methodists were more 'high church' than the Anglicans here....

To SEEKING IAM
The ideal of the Wesleys (founders of Methodism) was to have DAILY communion. But because of shortage of ordained ministers, they had to settle for the non-ideal. The 'once a month' practice was because of circumstances during the frontier days of USA- there were not enough ordained ministers around. Of course habits become entrenched....and it has become a normal practice...although some Methodists are having communion weekly.

The UMC is not representative of all Methodists. British Methodists are different as are Free Methodists, independent Methodists from various countries etc. Unlike Episcopalians or Anglicans, Methodists do not have a internationally centralised 'semi- authoratative' body eg Canterbury/Lambeth Council....There's the World Methodist Council but that's an 'association' or 'federation' of world Methodists. ....

Hope this helps.

 

[PaladinValer]

No, those are official Anglican teachings.

 

[scraparcs]

Yes, but practice doesn't always align with official Anglican teaching, as you know. Just for a quick example, the parish I am investigating doesn't believe in the Real Presence (although I believe some in the parish do believe in the Real Presence), hasn't mentioned a Saint or the blessed Virgin Mary yet, doesn't appear a whole lot like a Roman Catholic church, and nobody ever mentions much about history or apostolic succession (although our bishops, priests, and deacons are in valid apostolic succession). I will note that it is a liberal broad church Episcopalian parish.

I have had Methodist (well, a Methodist experience) and Anglican experiences similar to those of seeking.IAM.

 

[seeking.IAM]

The 'once a month' practice was because of circumstances during the frontier days of USA-

When I was a kid (somewhere between now and "frontier days") the typical UMC practice in these parts was quarterly, not monthly. I've managed to survive long enough to see the UMC generally do communion monthly. I wonder if I'll live long enough to see weekly become actually become routine?

Perhaps not. I could be Episcolpalian before then?

I also wonder if I will ever see it be given the kind of reverence it is given among the Anglicans, EOs, or RCs. Our church has all but abandoned the communion liturgy. It's so informal as to almost become meaningless.



seeking.IAM
<><

 

[Artos]

When I was a kid (somewhere between now and "frontier days") the typical UMC practice in these parts was quarterly, not monthly. I've managed to survive long enough to see the UMC generally do communion monthly. I wonder if I'll live long enough to see weekly become actually become routine?

Perhaps not. I could be Episcolpalian before then?

I also wonder if I will ever see it be given the kind of reverence it is given among the Anglicans, EOs, or RCs. Our church has all but abandoned the communion liturgy. It's so informal as to almost become meaningless.



seeking.IAM
<><

Ever heard of the UMC ORDER OF ST LUKE? This is not to be confused with the healing Order of St Luke. This is the sacramental and liturgical order of the UMC which seeks to restore the dignity and importance of the sacraments to the UMC...Can find it with help of GOOGLE.

Also- not all Methodists in the world are UMC. There are those who are not that informal re Communion around the world. So there's hope.

 

[Artos]

I mentioned the ORDER OF ST LUKE of the UMC.
Here's the website.
OK- they might be the 'high church' Methodists but they do exist.
http://www.saint-luke.org/describe.html

 

[ebia]

Yes, but practice doesn't always align with official Anglican teaching, as you know.

Even defining what is official Anglican teaching ends up being a matter of opinion. There is no archive of official dogmas or anything. Of Paladin's list:

1. We believe in the importance of Apostolic Succession and have a valid and licit line.

Anglicans believe it is valid and licit. The RCC does not.

2. We hold to the Seven Sacraments, although Baptism and Holy Communion are seen as the most important.

A good number of Anglicans would not count the 'other' five as sacraments.

3. We are Eucharist-orientated

Currently true, but not historically, and not currently in all diocese.

4. We hold to Holy Tradition, especially to the Seven Ecumenical Councils

Just about.

5. We hold to the historic doctrine of ordained ministry, deacon-priest-bishop, as anciently taught.

Only just hanging on in some dioceses.

6. We believe in the Real Presence, except that we believe it to be physical as well as spiritual in terms of Presence.

Far from all Anglicans believe this, whatever ARCIC might like to pretend.

7. We venerate the Saints, and hold St. Mary the Theotokos in great honor. We even have an Anglican rosary.

I'd suggest this is only true for a minority of Anglicans.

8. We have both Western (Vatican Catholic) as well as Eastern (Eastern Orthodox) influences.

Hmm. Can't think of an objection to this one.

9. The Book of Common Prayer

Kind of. There is no single version currently 'valid' in all Provinces.

10. Founded in the 1st century ce.

Does any church think it wasn't?

 

[Artos]

Sigh. Even Anglicans cant agree among themselves what Anglicans believe in.....and they have a more 'centralised' and more 'visible' govenment.

Methodists with their loose international confederation wont stand a chance...

 

[ebia]

Sigh. Even Anglicans cant agree among themselves what Anglicans believe in.....and they have a more 'centralised' and more 'visible' govenment.

Methodists with their loose international confederation wont stand a chance...

Why is this a bad thing?

 

[Artos]

In this thread, an Anglican tried to state what Anglicans believe. Then another says that what he stated isnt what Anglicans believe in. What exactly do Anglicans believe in? People outside the Anglican church wants to know this.

They havent come to an agreement.

This isnt a bad thing?

 

[ebia]

In this thread, an Anglican tried to state what Anglicans believe. Then another says that what he stated isnt what Anglicans believe in. What exactly do Anglicans believe in? People outside the Anglican church wants to know this.

They havent come to an agreement.

This isnt a bad thing?

No, it's not. The Anglican church is a broad church containing a vast array of opinion, and with virtually no forum to decide 'official' policy. It is a church held together by a common heritage, and common framework of prayer, and a concept of being mutually 'in communion' with each other via the A.B.C. Not by a common set of beliefs beyond the historic creeds.

 

[Artos]

What then is its distinctiveness or charism/calling?

 

[ebia]

What then is its distinctiveness or charism/calling?

Diversity.

And space to think things through for yourself.

 

[Historicus]

Diversity.

And space to think things through for yourself.

In essentials unity. In non-essentials diversity.

 

[Artos]

OK. So what are the DISTINCTIVE essentials of Anglicanism?
(Am not talking about the common beliefs shared by all Christians)....

 

[Fish and Bread]

OK. So what are the DISTINCTIVE essentials of Anglicanism?
(Am not talking about the common beliefs shared by all Christians)....

What are the distinctive essentials of Methodism that are not common beliefs shared by all other Christians? I think our two denominations may be cut from the same cloth in being a bit hazy on required beliefs outside of the basics, which in and of itself is sort of a distinctive belief.

Generally, you'll find that nearly all Anglicans believe in at least three sources for information about Christ: scripture, reason, and tradition. Most Anglicans will also affirm that, though, tradition is important, no belief not found in scripture can rightly be considered a requirement for salvation. Anglicans also have historically had a three-fold model of ministry -- bishop, priest, and deacon -- with all being linked to the historic episcopate (i.e. bishops having hands laid on them by other bishops in a line back to the Apostles). Additionally, though our level of liturgicalness can vary, you'll find that by and large any Anglican church you come across will at minimum hold to the basic historic liturgy -- readings (with the gospel last and the people standing), sermon, prayers of the people, eucharist. We also tend to think of ourselves as kind of Catholic leaning Protestants or Protestant leaning Catholics -- a via media (or middle way). Those are some traits that Anglicans throughout the ages have shared historically probably 99% of the time (Though I'm sure folks can dig up some exceptions here and there).

John