Angels

[mindlight]

I have some questions about angels.

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

3) Two angels are named in the Bible. Why aren't more named. What do people think about the non biblical revelations and traditions about other angels names like Raphael for instance?

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?

7) Do people have experiences of angels that they would like to relate?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

*OrthodoxyUSA pops a bag of popcorn and sits down to see what happens.*

Forgive me...

 

[MesaMike]

Here's what I'd like to know about angels:

1) How many can dance on the head of a pin?
2) Is it really true that every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings?

 

[Epiphoskei]

I have some questions about angels.

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

3) Two angels are named in the Bible. Why aren't more named. What do people think about the non biblical revelations and traditions about other angels names like Raphael for instance?

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

The short answer is, we don't know most of the answers. Angels are God's messengers and servants, and we don't need to know much more about them than that. That and the bad ones lose in the end.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

From the OCA.org website...



In the Orthodox Christian Tradition the "bodiless powers" are involved in every aspect of worship. The ranks of the bodiless Heavenly Powers are called angels, each having its own name and position of service. The Lord appointed the Holy Archangel Michael (his name in Hebrew means "who is like unto God"), the faithful servitor of God, as Chief Commander over all the Nine Ranks. Archangel Michael cast down Lucifer and the other fallen spirits to Earth when they rebelled against God in Heaven.


The Greek word angel means "messenger", which is shown by depicting them with wings in Iconography. Other messengers, such as John The Baptist, have also been depicted with wings.

The Archangel Gabriel spoke to Mary when she was told that she would give birth to Christ. Angels spoke the shepherds after Christ’s birth and sat in the tomb of Christ speaking to the ointment bearing women about his glorious resurrection. The Angels themselves warned St. John, as seen in the book of Revelation, not to worship Angels, but to worship God only.


Also taught in Orthodox Christian Tradition is that each person has a guardian angel, and that every nation also receives its own guardian angel from God (Dan. 10:13).


The Angelic Ranks are divided into three choirs: highest, middle, and lowest.


The Highest Choir includes: the Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones.


The six-winged SERAPHIM (Flaming, Fiery) stand closest of all to the Most Holy Trinity. They blaze with love for God and kindle such love in others.


The many-eyed CHERUBIM (outpouring of wisdom, enlightenment) (Genesis 3:24) stand before the Lord after the Seraphim. They are radiant with the light of knowledge of God, and knowledge of the mysteries of God. Through them wisdom is poured forth, and people's minds are enlightened so they may know God and behold His glory.


The THRONES (Colossians 1:16) stand after the Cherubim, mysteriously and incomprehensibly bearing God through the grace given them for their service. They are ministers of God's justice, giving to tribunals, kings, etc. the capacity for righteous judgment.


The Middle Angelic Choir consists of three Ranks: Dominions, Powers, and Authorities:


DOMINIONS (Colossians 1:16) hold dominion over the angels subject to them. They instruct the earthly authorities, established by God, to rule wisely, and to govern their lands well. The Dominions teach us to subdue sinful impulses, to subject the flesh to the spirit, to master our will, and to conquer temptation.


POWERS (1 Peter 3:22) fulfill the will of God without hesitation. They work great miracles and give the grace of wonderworking and clairvoyance to saints pleasing to God. The Powers assist people in fulfilling obedience's. They also encourage them to be patient, and give them spiritual strength and fortitude.


AUTHORITIES (1 Peter 3:22, Colossians 1:16) have authority over the devil. They protect people from demonic temptations, and prevent demons from harming people as they would wish. They also uphold ascetics and guard them, helping people in the struggle with evil thoughts.

The Lowest Choir includes the three Ranks: Principalities, Archangels, and Angels:


PRINCIPALITIES (Colossians 1:16) have command over the lower angels, instructing them in the fulfilling of God's commands. They watch over the world and protect lands, nations and peoples. Principalities instruct people to render proper honor to those in authority, as befits their station. They teach those in authority to use their position, not for personal glory and gain, but to honor God, and to spread word of Him, for the benefit of those under them.


ARCHANGELS (1 Thessalonians 4:16) are messengers of great and wondrous tidings. They reveal prophecies and the mysteries of the faith. They enlighten people to know and understand the will of God, they spread faith in God among the people, illuminating their minds with the light of the Holy Gospel.


ANGELS (1 Peter 3:22) are in the lowest rank of the heavenly choir, and closest to people. They reveal the lesser mysteries of God and His intentions, guiding people to virtuous and holy life. They support those who remain steadfast, and they raise up the fallen. They never abandon us and they are always prepared to help us, if we desire it.



Holy Scripture and Tradition give us the names of the Archangels:


Michael: ("who is like unto God"), the faithful servitor of God, Chief Commander of The Army of Heaven.

Gabriel: strength (power) of God, herald and servitor of Divine omnipotence (Daniel 8:16, Luke 1:26). He announces the mysteries of God.


Raphael: the healing of God, the curer of human infirmities (Tobit 3:16, 12:15)


Uriel: the fire or light of God, enlightener (3 Ezdras 5:20). We pray for him to enlighten those with darkened minds.


Selaphiel: the prayer of God, impelling to prayer (3 Ezdras 5:16). He prays to God for mankind.


Jehudiel: the glorifying of God, encouraging exertion for the glory of the Lord and interceding for the reward of efforts.


Barachiel: distributor of the blessings of God for good deeds, entreats the mercy of God for people.


Jeremiel: the raising up to God (3 Ezdras 4:36)


In Iconography (pictures) the Archangels are depicted in according to the character of their service:

Michael tramples the devil underfoot, and in his left hand holds a green date-tree branch, and in his right hand a spear with a white banner (or sometimes a fiery sword), on which is outlined a scarlet cross.


Gabriel with a branch from Paradise, presented by him to the Most Holy Virgin, or with a shining lantern in his right hand and with a mirror made of jasper in his left.


Raphael holds a vessel with healing medications in his left hand, and with his right hand leads Tobias, carrying a fish for healing (Tobit 5-8).


Uriel in his raised right hand holds a naked sword at the level of his chest, and in his lowered left hand "a fiery flame."


Selaphiel in a prayerful posture, gazing downwards, hands folded on the chest.


Jehudiel holds a golden crown in his right hand, in his left, a whip of three red (or black) thongs.


Barachiel is shown with a white rose on his breast.


Jeremiel holds balance-scales in his hand.

Forgive me...

 

[mindlight]

In the Orthodox Christian Tradition the "bodiless powers" are involved in every aspect of worship. The ranks of the bodiless Heavenly Powers are called angels, each having its own name and position of service. The Lord appointed the Holy Archangel Michael (his name in Hebrew means "who is like unto God"), the faithful servitor of God, as Chief Commander over all the Nine Ranks. Archangel Michael cast down Lucifer and the other fallen spirits to Earth when they rebelled against God in Heaven.

Clearly praise and worship are central to the angels existence.
Do you think that angels can manifest themselves corporeally when they choose to? Many have mistaken angels for men in the Bible.
Where does the view about the 9 ranks come from- is that Dionysius? On what is this view based?
How do you see the activities of heaven relative to earth time. Michael casts the devil out in the last book of revelation yet in some sense this is already true and he is cast out. Some fallen angels seem to be free and some not - why?

The Greek word angel means "messenger", which is shown by depicting them with wings in Iconography. Other messengers, such as John The Baptist, have also been depicted with wings.
The Archangel Gabriel spoke to Mary when she was told that she would give birth to Christ. Angels spoke the shepherds after Christ’s birth and sat in the tomb of Christ speaking to the ointment bearing women about his glorious resurrection. The Angels themselves warned St. John, as seen in the book of Revelation, not to worship Angels, but to worship God only.

There is also a reference to female angels with wings like those of storks in Zechariah so it is possibel that some angels do indeed have wings. The transfiguration account did not include a reference to wings relative to Elijah and Moses as they consulted with Jesus. So I do not believe that human beings have wings in their heavenly state. It is not clear that most angels have wings as most of their appearances in the Bible do not include these characteristics.

Also taught in Orthodox Christian Tradition is that each person has a guardian angel, and that every nation also receives its own guardian angel from God (Dan. 10:13).

I can believe in Guardian angels and angels that stand guard over nations - Michael was the prince who guarded Israel for instance. This raises questions about the potential population of angels however. Does that mean there are 6 billion angels now and counting. What were these angels doing before the population grew so much? If the population of earth expanded across the galaxies and came to number in the trillions would there still be enough angels to cover things? Is the angelic activity determined by the movement of events on earth or are heaven and earth ordered in accordance with a plan being worked out with both by God in unison?
Is it a humbling thing for a being who experiences so much of the divine to be sent to such small and imperfect creatures as mankind who only glimpse God occasionally?

The Angelic Ranks are divided into three choirs: highest, middle, and lowest.
The Highest Choir includes: the Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones.
The six-winged SERAPHIM (Flaming, Fiery) stand closest of all to the Most Holy Trinity. They blaze with love for God and kindle such love in others.
The many-eyed CHERUBIM (outpouring of wisdom, enlightenment) (Genesis 3:24) stand before the Lord after the Seraphim. They are radiant with the light of knowledge of God, and knowledge of the mysteries of God. Through them wisdom is poured forth, and people's minds are enlightened so they may know God and behold His glory.
The THRONES (Colossians 1:16) stand after the Cherubim, mysteriously and incomprehensibly bearing God through the grace given them for their service. They are ministers of God's justice, giving to tribunals, kings, etc. the capacity for righteous judgment.
The Middle Angelic Choir consists of three Ranks: Dominions, Powers, and Authorities:
DOMINIONS (Colossians 1:16) hold dominion over the angels subject to them. They instruct the earthly authorities, established by God, to rule wisely, and to govern their lands well. The Dominions teach us to subdue sinful impulses, to subject the flesh to the spirit, to master our will, and to conquer temptation.
POWERS (1 Peter 3:22) fulfill the will of God without hesitation. They work great miracles and give the grace of wonderworking and clairvoyance to saints pleasing to God. The Powers assist people in fulfilling obedience's. They also encourage them to be patient, and give them spiritual strength and fortitude.
AUTHORITIES (1 Peter 3:22, Colossians 1:16) have authority over the devil. They protect people from demonic temptations, and prevent demons from harming people as they would wish. They also uphold ascetics and guard them, helping people in the struggle with evil thoughts.
The Lowest Choir includes the three Ranks: Principalities, Archangels, and Angels:
PRINCIPALITIES (Colossians 1:16) have command over the lower angels, instructing them in the fulfilling of God's commands. They watch over the world and protect lands, nations and peoples. Principalities instruct people to render proper honor to those in authority, as befits their station. They teach those in authority to use their position, not for personal glory and gain, but to honor God, and to spread word of Him, for the benefit of those under them.
ARCHANGELS (1 Thessalonians 4:16) are messengers of great and wondrous tidings. They reveal prophecies and the mysteries of the faith. They enlighten people to know and understand the will of God, they spread faith in God among the people, illuminating their minds with the light of the Holy Gospel.
ANGELS (1 Peter 3:22) are in the lowest rank of the heavenly choir, and closest to people. They reveal the lesser mysteries of God and His intentions, guiding people to virtuous and holy life. They support those who remain steadfast, and they raise up the fallen. They never abandon us and they are always prepared to help us, if we desire it.

Placing the captain of the Lords Army below thrones and dominions is interesting. This is an early hierarchical view of heaven but on what was it based?

Holy Scripture and Tradition give us the names of the Archangels:
Michael: ("who is like unto God"), the faithful servitor of God, Chief Commander of The Army of Heaven.
Gabriel: strength (power) of God, herald and servitor of Divine omnipotence (Daniel 8:16, Luke 1:26). He announces the mysteries of God.
Raphael: the healing of God, the curer of human infirmities (Tobit 3:16, 12:15)
Uriel: the fire or light of God, enlightener (3 Ezdras 5:20). We pray for him to enlighten those with darkened minds.
Selaphiel: the prayer of God, impelling to prayer (3 Ezdras 5:16). He prays to God for mankind.
Jehudiel: the glorifying of God, encouraging exertion for the glory of the Lord and interceding for the reward of efforts.
Barachiel: distributor of the blessings of God for good deeds, entreats the mercy of God for people.
Jeremiel: the raising up to God (3 Ezdras 4:36)

You quote deuterocanonical scriptures for these except for Michael and Gabriel who are in the Bible and Jehudiel and Barachiel who are not. Where do these last two come from?

In Iconography (pictures) the Archangels are depicted in according to the character of their service:
Michael tramples the devil underfoot, and in his left hand holds a green date-tree branch, and in his right hand a spear with a white banner (or sometimes a fiery sword), on which is outlined a scarlet cross.
Gabriel with a branch from Paradise, presented by him to the Most Holy Virgin, or with a shining lantern in his right hand and with a mirror made of jasper in his left.
Raphael holds a vessel with healing medications in his left hand, and with his right hand leads Tobias, carrying a fish for healing (Tobit 5-8).
Uriel in his raised right hand holds a naked sword at the level of his chest, and in his lowered left hand "a fiery flame."
Selaphiel in a prayerful posture, gazing downwards, hands folded on the chest.
Jehudiel holds a golden crown in his right hand, in his left, a whip of three red (or black) thongs.
Barachiel is shown with a white rose on his breast.
Jeremiel holds balance-scales in his hand.
Forgive me...

Nothing to forgive - an interesting list thank you. Do you have any extra thoughts on the following questions also:
1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?
2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?
4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?
5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?
6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?
7) Do people have experiences of angels that they would like to relate?

 

[mindlight]

The short answer is, we don't know most of the answers. Angels are God's messengers and servants, and we don't need to know much more about them than that. That and the bad ones lose in the end.

God has supplied a Biblical revelation which gives many more answers than people have looked for in the protestant tradition.

Karl Barth accused catholics and Orthodox of being way too interested about angels and Protestants of being way too uninterested.

The fact is that angels exist and that their existence has a crucial bearing on key Christian doctrines and events in the Jewish and Christian Bible.

e.g

1) The incarnation announced by angels
2) The cross - angels minister to Jesus the night before in gethsame
3) The resurrection - angels announce and may well have rolled away the stone also

Also given contemporary observations on the size of the universe and its potentiality for non Human life it is an interestign exercise to explore the kinds of relationships that non humans may have with the Creator of all life. The New Age Movement and the contemporary resurgence of interest in the Western world in non human and non Christian spirituality also makes it necessary to have a firm handle on what the Bible actually teaches on angels and demons.

Also many people can point to key events in their lives where there appears to have been angelic intervention.

So I do not think it is a good Evangelical or Missiological approach to ignore the existence of angels. As they themselves indicate in hebrews we should worship God alone but we bat for the same team and it is helpful to know how our team mates operate.

 

[BreadAlone]

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

Firstly, most of what is "known" about angels is mostly pure speculation. But, there are some things you can gather from scripture, and, still speculating, try to piece together this mystery.

Angels are personable beings like God; they're purely spiritual, kind of equatable to us without physical bodies.

They made their choice right in the beginning. We don't know what that choice was in regard to, most people specualte pride or the "wanting to be God". The theory I like the best is this: The angels are here to serve us. The Bible says "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?". So the angels serve God by serving us. Some people specualte that the evil angels looked down upon us with disgust and contempt, and refused to be the servant of somehting so primitive.

However, this too is speculation, and we really can't be sure what the actual reason for the evil angel's fall into sin was, but we know it did happen.

So yes, they chose in the beginning to serve God or not; and that descision was final.

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

They are "with him". They can and do worship him in a spiritual sense constantly. God is of course with us too, but I think you can gather what I mean.

Unlike us, though, Satan and his angels don't get a second chance.

3) Two angels are named in the Bible. Why aren't more named. What do people think about the non biblical revelations and traditions about other angels names like Raphael for instance?

It was only relevant to name two GOOD angels in the Bible. There are more evil angels named, not including the many names entitled to Satan.

We aren't to worship angels, and perhaps that's a reason that only the two archangels are mentioned. I'm sure there are many true stories about angels not mentioned in the Bible. We just can't be sure if ALL the stories are true or not.

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

God in his wisdom doesn't reveal all of the answers to us. They have the same power and substance the good angels have, minus the backing of God. But they are still forces to be reckoned with, and we have many warnings to be on guard against them within the Scriptures..

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

They're all allowed to roam the Earth until the day of Judgement when they're permanently damned in hell.

6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?

Angels are perfect beings. "Losing" really doesn't make sense. They're probably equally matched.

---------

Again, like I said, God, in his infinite wisdom, has not revealed much about the mysteries of the angels in his Word, because it is of little consequence to us and our salvation, and thus most of this is purely speculation..

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Clearly praise and worship are central to the angels existence.
Do you think that angels can manifest themselves corporeally when they choose to? Many have mistaken angels for men in the Bible.

I would think it is more when God chooses for them to.

Where does the view about the 9 ranks come from- is that Dionysius? On what is this view based?

Holy Tradition is my only answer.

How do you see the activities of heaven relative to earth time. Michael casts the devil out in the last book of revelation yet in some sense this is already true and he is cast out. Some fallen angels seem to be free and some not - why?

Eternity and time are totally unrelated. Things that happen eternally have already happened, are happening, and always will happen. An eternal being can step into time at any point.

There is also a reference to female angels with wings like those of storks in Zechariah so it is possibel that some angels do indeed have wings. The transfiguration account did not include a reference to wings relative to Elijah and Moses as they consulted with Jesus. So I do not believe that human beings have wings in their heavenly state. It is not clear that most angels have wings as most of their appearances in the Bible do not include these characteristics.

Angels are bodiless, have no sexual orientation and do not truely have wings. Wings are merely an expaination via visual aid as to what the person job is... IOW ~ God's messenger.

I can believe in Guardian angels and angels that stand guard over nations - Michael was the prince who guarded Israel for instance. This raises questions about the potential population of angels however. Does that mean there are 6 billion angels now and counting. What were these angels doing before the population grew so much? If the population of earth expanded across the galaxies and came to number in the trillions would there still be enough angels to cover things? Is the angelic activity determined by the movement of events on earth or are heaven and earth ordered in accordance with a plan being worked out with both by God in unison?
Is it a humbling thing for a being who experiences so much of the divine to be sent to such small and imperfect creatures as mankind who only glimpse God occasionally?

Angels are eternal beings... God knows how many of us he created. He has the eternal plan.

Placing the captain of the Lords Army below thrones and dominions is interesting. This is an early hierarchical view of heaven but on what was it based?

Think of them as being on a rising stage... The ArchAngels out in front. Lowest does not refer to least capable in this case.

You quote deuterocanonical scriptures for these except for Michael and Gabriel who are in the Bible and Jehudiel and Barachiel who are not. Where do these last two come from?

These books were canon before they were ever called deuterocanonical. The Orthodox refer to the Septuigant for the OT... because it is what Christ used.

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

Not puppets, they have made an eternal conscious choice to obey God.

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

Well, they were created first.

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

Power is of God only. Authority is given by God. Fallen Angels made an eternal decision to disobey. There is no redemption from an eternal act of disobience.

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

You are refering to the book of Revelation and attempting to put a timeline to eternal things.

6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?

Angelic and demonic combat is eternal.

7) Do people have experiences of angels that they would like to relate?

I have none to relate.


Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Michael tramples the devil underfoot, and in his left hand holds a green date-tree branch, and in his right hand a spear with a white banner (or sometimes a fiery sword), on which is outlined a scarlet cross.

Reve 12:7 And became battle in the Heaven, the Michael [Daniel 12]and the messengers of him, battle with the Dragon, and the Dragon battles and the messengers of him 8 and not he is strong, neither [was] place found of them still in the heaven.

 

[InkBlott]

Firstly, most of what is "known" about angels is mostly pure speculation. But, there are some things you can gather from scripture, and, still speculating, try to piece together this mystery.

Angels are personable beings like God; they're purely spiritual, kind of equatable to us without physical bodies.

I'm not entirely sure that angels should necessarily be regarded as persons. They seem to be more...I don't know...representations of revelations, of states of apprehension of the Divine, of shifts in thinking about God in relation to humanity.

I like the way Matthew Fox puts it in an audiotape I have of him speaking in Australia. He says, "Friends, every time you see an angel in the New Testament, think Einstein." In other words, when our theology is shifting in the same radical way our understanding of the relationship between energy and mass shifted under Einstein, that's when angels appear: in that gob-smacked, awe-filled moment of realization, so immediate that it could not be realer or more present if it were a person.

When you have angels appearing before shepherds in the night, the time is so ripe that even the least of the least are sensing the approach of critical mass.

 

[Epiphoskei]

I'm not entirely sure that angels should necessarily be regarded as persons. They seem to be more...I don't know...representations of revelations, of states of apprehension of the Divine, of shifts in thinking about God in relation to humanity.

I like the way Matthew Fox puts it in an audiotape I have of him speaking in Australia. He says, "Friends, every time you see an angel in the New Testament, think Einstein." In other words, when our theology is shifting in the same radical way our understanding of the relationship between energy and mass shifted under Einstein, that's when angel's appear, in that gob-smacked, awe-filled moment of realization, so immediate that it could not be realer or more present if it were a person.

When you have angels appearing before shepherds in the night, the time is so ripe that even the least of the least are sensing the approach of critical mass.

The bible speaks of angels and demons being persons, though. You say angels are apprehensions of the divine... then what are demons apprehensions of. And how can Jesus have a conversation with one (satan) if he's not a person? How could Michael argue with Satan if Satan and Michael were not persons?

 

[GodsChild07]

I have some questions about angels.

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

3) Two angels are named in the Bible. Why aren't more named. What do people think about the non biblical revelations and traditions about other angels names like Raphael for instance?

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?

7) Do people have experiences of angels that they would like to relate?

The regular Angels, the ones called messengers do not have free will, nor do they have any emotions. The Archangels do have free will and have personalities and emotions.

 

[Epiphoskei]

which can't be proven from the Bible. And I'm not RCC or EO, but I'm pretty sure there aren't even traditions to that effect.

 

[GodsChild07]

I have some questions about angels.

1) Do angels have personality like human beings or it a different kind of personality. Are they more like puppets or do they make conscious choices to obey God?

Archangels have personalities and emotions. regular (messenger) Angels do not have free will or emotions.

2) Humans have the incarnation to prove that they are special in the eyes of God and the experience and fact of redemption. What are the special characteristics of an angels relationship with God?

Regular angels are just puppets who have no free will and do whatever their missions are, without feelings or emotions. They have no real relationship with god. The Archangels are like children to God and have a close relationship with him.

3) Two angels are named in the Bible. Why aren't more named. What do people think about the non biblical revelations and traditions about other angels names like Raphael for instance?

Only the Archangels have names.

4) Why are fallen angels irredeemable? How do they continue to have power at all if they are out of relationship with God? Are they merely deceptive shadows or do they still have substance of some sort?

Fallen Angels are not irredeemable.

5) Why are some fallen angels bound and why are some allowed to roam free?

None are bound, yet.

6) Could an angel lose in combat with a demon. If it did lose what would happen to it. Would God simply restore it?

You've got to be kidding. Any Angel could crush any demon in an instant.

7) Do people have experiences of angels that they would like to relate?

I've heard several.

 

[GodsChild07]

which can't be proven from the Bible. And I'm not RCC or EO, but I'm pretty sure there aren't even traditions to that effect.

So?

 

[Epiphoskei]

so you have a habit of authoritativly teaching things that don't come from a source that anyone holds is authoritative.

Precicely how did you come to this information about the nature of angelic wills?

 

[GodsChild07]

so you have a habit of authoritativly teaching things that don't come from a source that anyone holds is authoritative.

Precicely how did you come to this information about the nature of angelic wills?

Like I said - So?

If I told you, you would never believe me, so I'm not going to waste my time. You would obviously rather critisize and argue. Find somebody else!

 

[mindlight]

Firstly, most of what is "known" about angels is mostly pure speculation. But, there are some things you can gather from scripture, and, still speculating, try to piece together this mystery.

There is a considerable amount in scripture to inform this discussion of Gods angels and the fallen kind. Given the attention given by the gospels to exorcisms and to angelic announcements and actions I surprised more time is not spent today thinking about their contribution to the Kingdom of God and to an understanding of Christs mission of salvation for instance.

Angels are personable beings like God; they're purely spiritual, kind of equatable to us without physical bodies.

Definite personalities - they appear to have names and can talk in personal conversations and have accountability to God for their actions. However not sure about the corporeal thing. With whom did Jacob wrestle before he received his name Israel ("One who struggles with God") and receive a physical injury from. And with whom did Abraham eat before the destruction of Sodom and Gommorrah if not angels able to interact with the physical.

They made their choice right in the beginning. We don't know what that choice was in regard to, most people specualte pride or the "wanting to be God". The theory I like the best is this: The angels are here to serve us. The Bible says "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?". So the angels serve God by serving us. Some people specualte that the evil angels looked down upon us with disgust and contempt, and refused to be the servant of something so primitive.
However, this too is speculation, and we really can't be sure what the actual reason for the evil angel's fall into sin was, but we know it did happen.
So yes, they chose in the beginning to serve God or not; and that descision was final.

I wonder if this Biblical statement sums up the whole purpose of an angels existence as being a ministering spirit to man. In relation to man the only reason an angel should interact with us is in accordance with Gods purpose and therefore to minister to us. If they do indeed dwell continually in Gods presence there is little that we could give them that they do not already have. So their only legitimate reason to interact with us would be to serve us at Gods command. If they come for any other reason its not likely to begood news for either angel or human being. Demons come to control and manipulate and ultimately destroy humans. Some angels may be sexually tempted by human women. The passages about women covering their heads in church and the verses about the Nephilim in Genesis indicate that angels may sometime get curious about and even tempted by the sexual act and have been attracted to human women. Jesus seems to indicate that there is no sex in heaven but that the sons of God were able to procreate with women may mean that angels still have sexual organs.

They are "with him". They can and do worship him in a spiritual sense constantly. God is of course with us too, but I think you can gather what I mean. Unlike us, though, Satan and his angels don't get a second chance.

It was only relevant to name two GOOD angels in the Bible. There are more evil angels named, not including the many names entitled to Satan.

That is an interesting view. If an angels choices are that extreme and they do indeed seem to be dammed if they make any wrong choices then the element of risk in disobeying God is considerable as their appears to be no means by which an angel can be redeemed. A third of the angels of heaven followed Satans fall. I wonder how much Satan manipulated them into these choices to their own ruin and how much they fell for their own stupidity.

We aren't to worship angels, and perhaps that's a reason that only the two archangels are mentioned. I'm sure there are many true stories about angels not mentioned in the Bible. We just can't be sure if ALL the stories are true or not.

I agree and there are other reasons to be sceptical of even some of the apocryphal/deuterocanonical literature and anyway we have enough to work with on angels from the universally accepted canon of 66 bible books.

God in his wisdom doesn't reveal all of the answers to us. They have the same power and substance the good angels have, minus the backing of God. But they are still forces to be reckoned with, and we have many warnings to be on guard against them within the Scriptures.

I think that there must be more bluff to a dark side angel if they have lost their connection to God but yes they do appear to have real powers.

They're all allowed to roam the Earth until the day of Judgement when they're permanently damned in hell.

There is a passage in Revelation that describes some angels having been bound.

Angels are perfect beings. "Losing" really doesn't make sense. They're probably equally matched.

If the contest is not a real one then whats the test. Why did it take more than 3 weeks for an angel to deliver a message having battled with Prince of Persia all that time. Angels seem to very often be warriors but how are they that if they never lose a battle. There is no courage or test of their mettle in such a fight. But then if an angel could lose a fight would be equally problematic as it what ten happens to them
---------

Again, like I said, God, in his infinite wisdom, has not revealed much about the mysteries of the angels in his Word, because it is of little consequence to us and our salvation, and thus most of this is purely speculation

I think God has actually revealed an enormous amount about angels and their own internal conflicts and personalities. That revelation primarily concerns their interaction with human beings.

 

[mindlight]

Eternity and time are totally unrelated. Things that happen eternally have already happened, are
happening, and always will happen. An eternal being can step into time at any point.

This is a mystery to me. The things we do echo in eternity and the actions of heavenly beings impact on
the earthly realm and yet the two inhabit different time frames. Moltmann proposes that heaven is the
goal of earthly action where the ultimate consequences of the actions are revealed while others connect
the nature of heaven and the angelic host to the very person of God and their is thus a timeless quality to the decisions made by angels though they may have taken millenia at arriving at them. I am still thinking this through.

Angels are bodiless, have no sexual orientation and do not truely have wings. Wings are merely an
expaination via visual aid as to what the person job is... IOW ~ God's messenger.

No not sure about this at all. There is no marriage and marrying in heaven but since Angels seem to be attracted to human beings on occasions(mentioned in old and new testaments)the potentiality of sexual activity remains. Also there are various passages where human beings physically interact with angels - eating with them or wrestling with them for instance.

Think of them as being on a rising stage... The ArchAngels out in front. Lowest does not refer to
least capable in this case.

AS with the Trinity a procession - very Orthodox Church! ;-)

These books were canon before they were ever called deuterocanonical. The Orthodox refer to the
Septuigant for the OT... because it is what Christ used.

This is another discussion but an interesting one. The Jews had also Apocryphal literature that I believe the Orthodox church had not accepted but I would need to check this.

Not puppets, they have made an eternal conscious choice to obey God.

Not sure what an eternal conscious choice is. Again I am still working through my ideas about time and eternity and how angel time, God time and human time might interact.

Well, they were created first.

It appears that this is so.

Power is of God only. Authority is given by God. Fallen Angels made an eternal decision to
disobey. There is no redemption from an eternal act of disobience.
You are refering to the book of Revelation and attempting to put a timeline to eternal things.

Angelic and demonic combat is eternal.

All power and authority is ultimately derived from God and it seems that in the case of falle angels the full list of gifts and powers given is not immediately withdrawn when they sin but ultimately they lose everything. Again this eternity and time thing.