• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Angels in Outer Space??

Status
Not open for further replies.

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yeah, I know this sounds strange. Bare with me.

I was watching a show on Discovery about other solar systems and our search for earth-like planets. There are many astronomers that don't believe we'll find a planet that can sustain life. There's just too many things that can go wrong. If that's the case, a philosophical/theological question arises. Why would God create such a vast lifeless universe that no one can enjoy? Recently we've been able to look at some of these other worlds close up and they are actually quite beautiful (close up, that is, as telescope technology advances). Yet until recently, no one could enjoy them, and our abilities are still very limited. So what was the point? In some ways, it fuels the atheistic notion that everything is just the product of chance random processes.

Then I started thinking about angelic beings and how the Bible describes them. While they're spirit beings, they have the ability to materialize (so it would seem) such as Abraham's visitors in Gen. 18 who walked on the physical ground and even ate physical food! There are also several mentions of angels being cast to the earth such as Rev. 12:9. This of course implies that angels dwell somewhere besides earth that is physically above earth. This is of course supported by Paul where is says,

Eph. 6:12 because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;
(Young's Literal Translation)


In Genesis, God called the expanse, where He put the Sun, Moon and Stars, Heaven. They are the hosts of Heaven.

It make sense the God would populate Heaven, just as He did the land and sea. In fact angels are often called "stars" in scripture, implying they dwell in the Expanse with other illuminating objects, planets, etc. (Remember, "star" in Hebrew is not an exact match to the english word. It simply refers to an illuminating object in the sky that is not the Sun or Moon).

I guess what I'm saying is, is it so farfetched to believe that the vast universe, with its vast array of planetary solar systems that contain much beauty both from a distance and close up, are filled with created spirit beings like angels? Since angels have the ability to interact in the physical realm (according to the Bible), doesn't it make sense that the physical worlds in outer space were formed for them, to be inhabited by them?? Perhaps we view outer space as lifeless, because we're looking for the wrong kind of life? :angel: They may not have been intended for physical creatures, but this doesn't mean they weren't intended for any creatures.

I'd appreciate any input, especially those that see a theological or biblical problem with the above. Thanks in advance.
 

HisdaughterJen

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2007
16,026
446
this side of eternity
✟18,732.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I like to think about this kind of thing too...

You know, it's possible that once heaven and earth are back together again as it was in Eden before the fall, that those who populate the earth during the millenium continue to do so and that the other planets are just our back yard....ready to be populated.

We could be the beginning stages of a populated universe.

OR

I've wondered if maybe they are already populated but we can't see them because of our fallen nature.

OR

I've heard speculation that the pit/abyss where the devil and fallen angels are bound in chains are really black holes. They've discovered a wall recently that is twelve miles high on one of the moons of Saturn, Iapetus that coincides with something mentioned in scripture...about always in darkness...I can't remember exactly.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm (Scroll down about halfway) Oh wow...I was just reading through this website...yikes!

There's definitely more...much more...for us to know.
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I like to think about this kind of thing too...

Cool! Nice to know others thing about this weird kind of stuff.

You know, it's possible that once heaven and earth are back together again as it was in Eden before the fall, that those who populate the earth during the millenium continue to do so and that the other planets are just our back yard....ready to be populated.

Well the Bible does say we'll be as the angels one day. I would think we'd be able to travel as they do. How cool would that be?

I've wondered if maybe they are already populated but we can't see them because of our fallen nature.

Exactly. Like when Elisha prayed and God opened up his servants eyes revealing the mountainside covered with angelic armies. If their here on earth, why not elsewhere?

I've heard speculation that the pit/abyss where the devil and fallen angels are bound in chains are really black holes.

That is so weird, I've actually thought the same thing. That's the thing. Seems the consensus among christians is, Hell and Heaven are some other dimension, having nothing to do with this world. But I'm thinking they might actually be the very thing we're pointing our telescopes at. All those worlds in outer space are being used an occupied and enjoyed by God's creatures, the "stars of heaven." But we, just like Elisha's servant, can't see them.

Anyway, thanks Jen. Good to know I'm not the only one way out there.
 
Upvote 0

windjammer

Junior Member
Nov 2, 2007
41
1
✟22,651.00
Faith
Christian
Hi there , good question but for me ......
I dont see angels as being very far away at all
angels are spirits
but also we are spirits too right ? we are to worship Him in Spirit and in truth ..
making us angels [messengers ]
some with the truth and some speaking lies ?

Psa 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Hbr 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hbr 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Angel
1Strong's Number: 32Greek: angelos

"a messenger" (from angello, "to deliver a message"), sent whether by God or by man or by Satan

peace wj
 
Upvote 0

HisdaughterJen

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2007
16,026
446
this side of eternity
✟18,732.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The OT was talking about actual heaven, not outer space.

The Bible is mute about the topic of extraterrestrials.

If the Vulcans exist, they'll come.
Well, that's just it. What is the definition of extra-terrestrial (not of this earth)? I'm not saying that angels are little green men...I actually believe space aliens are going to play a role in the end times delusion.

But angels did fall in the past and come to earth and tried to deceive humans. Humans considered them gods and set up religions and structures and even passed down stories based on a hint of truth (mythology) to honor those 'gods'.

It is happening again, even now. As far as the Bible is concerned, there are only a certain number of "beings":

1. God
2. Angels
3. Fallen Angels - Devil included
4. Demons and deceiving spirits (earth-bound spirits of the Nephilim)
5. Spirits of men
6. Humans in bodies
7. Animals - insects, etc.

In the past, there were Nephilim (half human/half angel) or giants.

Humans are trying to create "chimera's" by splicing DNA together as we speak, not to mention cloned animals. They are trying to create mice with human brains and all kinds of concoctions. So who's to say that "gray aliens" are not some kind of chimera maybe along the lines of the Nephilim? Scary stuff!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.html
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Well, that's just it. What is the definition of extra-terrestrial (not of this earth)?

Not of Earth, but of our material plane.

Angels do not qualify because they are of a different plane. They are of heaven, not of our universe, which is our plane.

I'm not saying that angels are little green men...I actually believe space aliens are going to play a role in the end times delusion.

Space aliens probably have no interest in Earth. They'd probably find our Earthian ideas of them and their "dealings" in our ideas of the End simply perposterous, probably because they have their own ideas.

But angels did fall in the past and come to earth and tried to deceive humans. Humans considered them gods and set up religions and structures and even passed down stories based on a hint of truth (mythology) to honor those 'gods'.

Zeus isn't an angel, neither is Ahura Mazda, Amatarasu, the Morrigan, Horus, Odin, or Indra.

It is happening again, even now. As far as the Bible is concerned, there are only a certain number of "beings":

1. God
2. Angels
3. Fallen Angels - Devil included
4. Demons and deceiving spirits (earth-bound spirits of the Nephilim)
5. Spirits of men
6. Humans in bodies
7. Animals - insects, etc.

Humans in bodies? Sorry, but that has some heavy Gnostic overtones...Spirits of men? Again, Gnostic-leaning. As a Christian, I believe otherwise.

In the past, there were Nephilim (half human/half angel) or giants.

No such beings ever existed.

Humans are trying to create "chimera's" by splicing DNA together as we speak, not to mention cloned animals.

Splicing actually refers to the modification of DNA to make it resember another species so as to give one specie a genetic quality of another. For example, giving a human the eyes of a cat.

Not all DNA modification is "splicing." In fact, genetic modification might lean to innumerable cures for a variety of diseases, disabilities, and quirks.

They are trying to create mice with human brains and all kinds of concoctions.

They are trying to give mice increased intelligence. So what?

So who's to say that "gray aliens" are not some kind of chimera maybe along the lines of the Nephilim? Scary stuff!

There are no such thing as giants unless you take certain mythical stories at a literal level.

There are no such things as cyclopsi or hundred-eyed-ones sons of Gaia.
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,433
1,799
62
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟55,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I tend to agree with this but there's too much speculation for my taste. If UFO's are ever proven to be not of this world, or made by man, I would agree that angels are behind it all 100% Right now I don't believe the evidence is there yet.
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The OT was talking about actual heaven, not outer space.

I'm not so sure anymore. God called the expanse, where He set the stars, "Heaven."

Gen. 1:8 And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

The Bible is mute about the topic of extraterrestrials.

Well, it's actually not. I says that angels dwell in the heavenly realms.

I've always been taught that Heaven is some sort of other dimension and not really a physical place. But so far I don't see any proof of that. Maybe outer space is filled with spiritual beings, but we can't see them, much like Elisha's servant couldn't see the angelic armies on the mountainside. Maybe heaven really is physical.
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I dont see angels as being very far away at all
angels are spirits
but also we are spirits too right ?

Right but were are confined to physical bodies for now. Angels seem to enjoy the best of both words. They can walk on earth and even enjoy food, yet are not limited to the physical laws that we are. They are said to dwell in the heavenlies and also on earth. When God asked Satan where he had been, he replied,

“....From roaming about on the earth" Job 2:2

If he were confined to only the earth, it seems to be an odd answer. Implicitly, there were other options.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I'm not so sure anymore. God called the expanse, where He set the stars, "Heaven."

Gen. 1:8 And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.


And you forgot the fact that the Jews at the time when that was written believed that heaven existed literally above the Earth beyond the sky.
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Not of Earth, but of our material plane.

Angels do not qualify because they are of a different plane. They are of heaven, not of our universe, which is our plane.

You know it's funny, but I've never come across a segment of scriptures that supports this very popular idea. I realize it's a common belief, but if there's no scripture to back it up, why not question it?

Space aliens probably have no interest in Earth. They'd probably find our Earthian ideas of them and their "dealings" in our ideas of the End simply perposterous, probably because they have their own ideas.

Again, all speculative.

Zeus isn't an angel, neither is Ahura Mazda, Amatarasu, the Morrigan, Horus, Odin, or Indra.

Interestingly, on a totally different subject, Zeus is likely just a deification of the historical Adam, just as Hera is a deification of Eve. In fact it is likely that almost all Greek mythology gods are simply deified embellishments of real historical people.

Did you know that Zeus and Hera are the first couple of the Greek gods? Did you know they are often depicted in the Garden of the Hesperides with and apple tree and snake? Here's a great article if anyone is interested in this theory.

Athena and Eve

Humans in bodies? Sorry, but that has some heavy Gnostic overtones...Spirits of men? Again, Gnostic-leaning. As a Christian, I believe otherwise.

Say what? Do you even know what gnosticism is? Gnosticism is the idea that all that is physical is bad, and all that is spirit it good. This is why they rejected the idea that Jesus came to earth in human form. Nothing being discussed here is remotely related.

There are no such thing as giants unless you take certain mythical stories at a literal level.

Golliath (likely only about 6'9" rather than 9'6") was a giant. Shaq would be also in those days. Heck, he is now!

Anyway, this kind of makes my point. The common and popular beliefs about heaven, hell and angels seem to have no basis in scripture. Maybe we should start scrutinizing them by scripture. :idea:
 
Upvote 0

Calminian

Senior Veteran
Feb 14, 2005
6,789
1,044
Low Dessert
✟49,695.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican


And you forgot the fact that the Jews at the time when that was written believed that heaven existed literally above the Earth beyond the sky.

And they were right. It is literally above the earth if it truly is physical.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You know it's funny, but I've never come across a segment of scriptures that supports this very popular idea. I realize it's a common belief, but if there's no scripture to back it up, why not question it?

Scripture isn't science.

Again, all speculative.

No more than your's, although mine is far more likely.

Interestingly, on a totally different subject, Zeus is likely just a deification of the historical Adam, just as Hera is a deification of Eve. In fact it is likely that almost all Greek mythology gods are simply deified embellishments of real historical people.

I seriously hope you are kidding :doh:

Did you know that Zeus and Hera are the first couple of the Greek gods? Did you know they are often depicted in the Garden of the Hesperides with and apple tree and snake? Here's a great article if anyone is interested in this theory.

Wrong. The first couple in Hellenism were Gaia and Uranus. In addition, you forgot that many of the titans were married to each other, one of them being Cronus and Rhea, who gave birth to Zeus, Hades, Hera, Poseidon, Hestia, and Demeter.

And you forget that Greek myth predates the story of Adam and Eve.


Say what? Do you even know what gnosticism is? Gnosticism is the idea that all that is physical is bad, and all that is spirit it good. This is why they rejected the idea that Jesus came to earth in human form. Nothing being discussed here is remotely related.

I know exactly what Gnosticism, and yes, what you said implied something of Gnosticism.

Golliath (likely only about 6'9" rather than 9'6") was a giant. Shaq would be also in those days. Heck, he is now!

That doesn't mean he's a product of humans and "angels." Nor does it make Shaq so either.

You destroyed your own argument.

Anyway, this kind of makes my point. The common and popular beliefs about heaven, hell and angels seem to have no basis in scripture. Maybe we should start scrutinizing them by scripture.

Your interpretation thereof? Nothankyou.

And they were right. It is literally above the earth if it truly is physical.

Sorry, but we've proven them wrong with simple observation.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.