Angel are real

[Walk together]

Furthermore this 'event' took place in 1917 over 100 years ago. Just goes to show how few and far between your 'miracles' occur.
Pity the miracle evacuation of Ukrainian women and children never occurred.

I wish God caught the atomic bomb that landed over japan but then again there have been horrors since the beginning.

 

[jayem]

An angel appeared to the Fatima children.

If there was an angel, it was just the opening act. The Virgin Mary was the headliner.

 

[Walk together]

Yeah, horrific things happen every day of the week. Day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, year in year out.
Your god sits on his hands watching.

God gave us free will and there is unfortunately a downside to some having this freedom as they misuse the privilege.

 

[Walk together]

If God is all knowing then free will is nothing more than an illusion.

I think God does know in advance but if free will is to be real then reality must play out and it obviously does play out as we can see. If God was to intervene in all of man's ventures God would be manipulating our free will making it not free anymore. We would be as robots being controlled and that is not what we are.

 

[Walk together]

But your god did get involved in human affairs. I've read the Bible front to back... I'm reading Leviticus at the moment.. trying to get my head around it.

I'm glad that you mentioned this fact and you are quite right in saying God has in the past played his part in his creation. It's complicated but I will give it a go. In the distant past, God interacted with many people by means of his Good Angels who would give warnings and do miracles among many other things but the time has come called the quiet age where God has finished his education plane and handed it all over to us we are in the very last days now and who can dispute that with all the destructive power that man has developed for his own control and God is saying to us if the past can not be your teacher to educate your selves and that is what our misused free will is doing then we can see the outcome of that not looking good that is why we are in the last and very quiet days. It's not too long now and Jesus will return and take complete control and sort out the mess that we have made for ourselves.

 

[Walk together]

Surely a God who can conjure up a universe isn't particularly interested in what I'm doing at any given moment.

God is very interested in you and he wants you to love him as he loves you.

 

[Robban]

If God is all knowing then free will is nothing more than an illusion.

Does not have to be, think of a power that sees and hears everything,

beforehand,

so you are free to do as you will, but know that I the Power know already what you will choose.

Psalms 139.

 

[Robban]

So everything must be predetermined, therefore free will is an illusion.

Not so, you have free will, however whatever you choose is already known.

 

[Robban]

So god knew that Adam and Eve would disobey him beforehand, that the sacrifice of his own son would have to take place to pay the price for their disobedience... That means that in your world view everything is predetermined.

And as an outsider looking in, I find your god cruel and manipulative.

Christianity is not my world view or Islam or any other religion.

My world view is, this world is the lowest of all worlds.

It is a place the soul is sent for a purpose.

But just now I have shoot through maybe gone for a few days, and maybe not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

While I do believe in angels, I'm not sure how an anecdotal story is supposed to be anything other than just a story.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[comana]

I think God does know in advance but if free will is to be real then reality must play out and it obviously does play out as we can see. If God was to intervene in all of man's ventures God would be manipulating our free will making it not free anymore. We would be as robots being controlled and that is not what we are.

Wouldn’t any intervention contradict free will?

 

[Robban]

Wouldn’t any intervention contradict free will?

Divine intervention,

if you have made a choice to do something and there is danger ahead,

the situation can change so that you find it not suitable to proceed so you change your plan.
Maybe or most probably not realizing at the time, it was divine intervention.

Pretty certain there are countless examples that can be recalled.

Because, nothing "just happens",
is also why becoming angry is idolworship.

 

[comana]

Divine intervention,

if you have made a choice to do something and there is danger ahead,

the situation can change so that you find it not suitable to proceed so you change your plan.
Maybe or most probably not realizing at the time, it was divine intervention.

Pretty certain there are countless examples that can be recalled.

Because, nothing "just happens",
is also why becoming angry is idolworship.

But it is still divine interference of free will. There is danger ahead that I cannot see but God interferes before I can assess the danger for myself. This effectively removes my will to what God has chosen instead.

 

[Robban]

But it is still divine interference of free will. There is danger ahead that I cannot see but God interferes before I can assess the danger for myself. This effectively removes my will to what God has chosen instead.

Anyone not living under a stone would know that we cannot know what iis waiting around the corner.

 

[comana]

Anyone not living under a stone would know that we cannot know what iis waiting around the corner.

That’s my point. If divine intervention changes my course because God sees the danger I can’t, then my free will has been removed.

 

[Robban]

That’s my point. If divine intervention changes my course because God sees the danger I can’t, then my free will has been removed.

Small price to pay.

Most people would be thankful.

Talking of choice, all the biggies are already decided.

The year you are born, where, parents, colour of hair, eyes, skin, gender,
length, long, short, fat, thin etc.

I have wondered which is correct, freedom of choice or free will-

 

[Walk together]

Wouldn’t any intervention contradict free will?

I don't think so if someone put an object in your way you still have a choice go left or go right so any intervention from God can still give you a choice. Free will is not taken away maybe sometimes it is being challenged by God.

 

[Joy]

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