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AV1611VET

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According to astronomers, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.537 million light years away.

Allegedly this means we're seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago.

But that's assuming the farther away something is, the older it is.

According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.

Can you reconcile this with theoretical physics?
 

Mark Quayle

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According to astronomers, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.537 million light years away.

Allegedly this means we're seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago.

But that's assuming the farther away something is, the older it is.

According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.

Can you reconcile this with theoretical physics?
Whoa, wait a minute there. How does something farther away than Andromeda mean it is older than Andromeda? Is Andromeda only 2.537 years old? I would think you mean to say, "...assuming the farther away something is, we are seeing it as it was longer ago than how we are seeing Andromeda", or something like that.

But, I'm curious about what you are getting at.

If you want to know how the Bible can claim Andromeda was created 6,000+ years ago, if we are seeing it as is was 2,537 years ago, I don't know why that is a problem. I should think it would be more of a problem to wonder about, how God could 4000+ years ago create the galaxies that we see billions of light years away. But I know that if God is First Cause, then he "invented" time and he knows it completely and can do anything with it for which he created it. All we've been able to do with time is speculate on it and waste it.

How old was Adam when God created him?


Later: Oh, my bad. I thought you said thousands of light years -not millions.
 
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AV1611VET

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Whoa, wait a minute there. How does something farther away than Andromeda mean it is older than Andromeda? Is Andromeda only 2.537 years old? I would think you mean to say, "...assuming the farther away something is, we are seeing it as it was longer ago than how we are seeing Andromeda", or something like that.

But, I'm curious about what you are getting at.

If you want to know how the Bible can claim Andromeda was created 6,000+ years ago, if we are seeing it as is was 2,537 years ago, I don't know why that is a problem. I should think it would be more of a problem to wonder about, how God could 4000+ years ago create the galaxies that we see billions of light years away. But I know that if God is First Cause, then he "invented" time and he knows it completely and can do anything with it for which he created it. All we've been able to do with time is speculate on it and waste it.

How old was Adam when God created him?


Later: Oh, my bad. I thought you said thousands of light years -not millions.

Phew! You had me scared there for a minute!

I thought, "Here I go again; making myself look bad with another mistake!" ^_^
 
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Yttrium

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According to astronomers, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.537 million light years away.

Allegedly this means we're seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago.

But that's assuming the farther away something is, the older it is.

According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.

Can you reconcile this with theoretical physics?
Sure. Looking through the evidence and the scientific research, I conclude that it's likely that we are seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago. Meanwhile, I see no mention of the age of Andromeda in the Bible. I conclude that it's most likely that your Biblical interpretation is incorrect.
 
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David Lamb

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According to astronomers, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.537 million light years away.

Allegedly this means we're seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago.

But that's assuming the farther away something is, the older it is.

According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.

Can you reconcile this with theoretical physics?
Like you, I believe in a comparatively young earth. However, the bible does tot say that Andromeda was created in 4004BC. 4004BC was the year decided upon by Archbishop Ussher. I don't believe tat the bible goves us such an accurate date for Creation.

As for those who say that the universe must be millions/billions of years old or we would not see the very distant stars, I would say that God created them with their light already reaching the earth. Genesis says:

“14 ¶ Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 “and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. [He made] the stars also.” (Ge 1:14-16 NKJV)

They wouldn't be much use as signs if man had to wait millions of years to see them!
 
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AV1611VET

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However, the bible does not say that Andromeda was created in 4004BC. 4004BC was the year decided upon by Archbishop Ussher. I don't believe tat the bible gives us such an accurate date for Creation.

I only use Ussher's dates as a reference point.

He may have been off by a couple hundred years, but it makes little difference when discussing it with those who believe in deep time.
 
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AV1611VET

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The only way to explain it theoretically is that time in our Solar System passes VERY slowly compared to the time outside of our Solar System which passes VERY quickly.

... I think.

The answer I'm looking for starts with the letter w.
 
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AV1611VET

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sjastro

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As for those who say that the universe must be millions/billions of years old or we would not see the very distant stars, I would say that God created them with their light already reaching the earth. Genesis says:
Sorry but this line of argument doesn’t work. A variation of Olbers’ paradox refutes it.

If the light had been created to already reach the Earth, this is an equivalent situation of an infinitely old static universe where there has been ‘enough time’ for the light of every star to reach the Earth.
A thin spherical shell of radius r and thickness dr around the Earth contains 4πr²ndr stars.
The flux from a star in this shell is L/4πr².
Contribution of the shell to the sky brightness is.

eqn1.png


For all concentric shells extending out to infinity integrate over all distances.

eqn2.png


This is Olbers’ paradox the night sky becomes infinitely bright.

In your case however the universe isn’t infinitely large let’s say around 6000 light years diameter.

The equation becomes

eqn3.png


Where R is the radius of the universe which in this case is 3000 light years, <L> is the mean stellar luminosity and n is the stellar number density.

Here we can use some real data, the most common and dimmest stars are type M stars which have a number density n ≈ 0.004 stars/(light year) and a mean stellar luminosity <L> ≈ 0.5Lₒ where Lₒ is the luminosity of the Sun and equals 3.828 x 10²⁶ W.

I = (0.004 x 0.5 x 3.828 x 10²⁶ x 3000)/(9.461 x 10¹⁵)² ≈ 2.6 x 10⁻⁵ W m⁻².

This is the brightness of the night sky according to your account.

By comparison the night sky free of moon light and light pollution is around I = 2 x 10⁻⁷ W m⁻² which is around 100X fainter.
The physical evidence therefore destroys the idea the Earth was created along with star light having already reached it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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According to astronomers, the Andromeda galaxy is 2.537 million light years away.

Allegedly this means we're seeing Andromeda as it existed 2.537 million years ago.

But that's assuming the farther away something is, the older it is.

According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.

Can you reconcile this with theoretical physics?

The Bible doesn't say that, and it's disingenuous to force that conclusion into the overall semantic meaning of Genesis 1.

This sort of conclusion you've drawn here, AV, is exactly the kind that comes about when someone distorts contexts and semantic ranges and unjustifiably reifies and inflates the living daylights out of a biblical text, presenting as 'absolute' what is actually underdetermined.

We don't actually KNOW with any sort of certainty, let alone sound deductive certainty, that anything and everything was created in 4004 B.C. This includes the Andromeda galaxy. And I'm not afraid to say so any more than I am to say that the Earth isn't flat and that the Sun doesn't revolve around the earth.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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According to the Bible, Andromeda was created in 4004 BC.
That is an assumption based on a very literal interpretation of Genesis. It is unnecessary.
I bring this up again because it seems that this kind if literal interpretation is the foundation of so many problems. Many of the repels would be rational believers .
 
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AV1611VET

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The Bible doesn't say that,

Not by name -- no.

... and it's disingenuous to force that conclusion into the overall semantic meaning of Genesis 1.

I don't think one has to be a Rhodes scholar to ascertain that ...

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

... includes the Andromeda galaxy.

This sort of conclusion you've drawn here, AV, is exactly the kind that comes about when someone distorts contexts and semantic ranges and unjustifiably reifies and inflates the living daylights out of a biblical text, presenting as 'absolute' what is actually underdetermined.

I also believe He made the Milky Way galaxy, as well as ...

Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

From AI Overview:

Some religious perspectives, like those within Christianity, believe God created the universe, including all galaxies, in a specific timeframe.

We don't actually KNOW with any sort of certainty, let alone sound deductive certainty, that anything and everything was created in 4004 B.C.

I do though.

Everything WASN'T created in 4004 BC.

Only those things that God created ex nihilo.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

That phrase, "and all the host of them," would certainly include the Andromeda galaxy.

Ex materia though is a different matter altogether.

Such as when God fed the widow of Zarephath.

1 Kings 17:14 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the LORD sendeth rain upon the earth.
15 And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.
16 And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Elijah.

We don't actually KNOW with any sort of certainty, let alone sound deductive certainty, that anything and everything was created in 4004 B.C. This includes the Andromeda galaxy.

I'm going to disagree here.

And I'm not afraid to say so any more than I am to say that the Earth isn't flat and that the Sun doesn't revolve around the earth.

So noted.

And I'm not afraid to disagree with you either.

I don't want to converse with any scardey cats anymore than you do.
 
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