And Now for Something a Little Different...

[AzA]

In your own words, please...

A. What's the church?
B. What's it for?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In your own words, please...

A. What's the church?
B. What's it for?

Yeah! BFA has become weary of the "law is eternal" threads. I'll bite, but my response is only one toe in the water. I have more to say, but here's where I'll start:

The church is people.

The church makes disciples.

BFA

 

[AzA]

Lol! Thank you! The water can go as deep as you want it to...

The church is "all" people? Or just "some" people?

Would you differentiate between a "disciple" and someone who has learned or is learning to live out their God-given nature?

I've been thinking about these things this week.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The church is "all" people? Or just "some" people?

I see no reason to think that the church is forced on anyone. The church is those who want to be the church.

Would you differentiate between a "disciple" and someone who has learned or is learning to live out their God-given nature?

I would differentiate between living out that which God gives to me and having faith that God will do in me according to His good pleasure. I've yet to meet a person who has learned (though "learning" is certainly possible).

BFA

 

[ricker]

In your own words, please...

A. What's the church?
B. What's it for?

The church is the gathering of believers where the Gospel is taught and the sacraments administered. (Lutheran enough for you?) Evangelism is not the main function of the church service. We are to go to the world and spread the gospel.

 

[sentipente]

The church is a set of people who have been called out of the rest of society to perform a particular task. There is nothing expressly [religions] about the church. Every organization is a church because the people who belong to that organization have been called out to perform a particular task and function within society that cannot be effectively accomplished by one individual. It is too bad that Christians have hijacked the term.

 

[AzA]

The church is the gathering of believers where the Gospel is taught and the sacraments administered. (Lutheran enough for you?) Evangelism is not the main function of the church service. We are to go to the world and spread the gospel.

Yes -- super Lutheran, lol! Welcome, Ricker.

So I take it that for you the church, the gathering, is an interior and enclosed operation?

I see no reason to think that the church is forced on anyone. The church is those who want to be the church.

You mentioned making disciples the other day but didn't really say what that meant to you. A disciple is... what?

The church is a set of people who have been called out of the rest of society to perform a particular task.

And what would you say the particular task of the Christian ecclesia is?

 

[ricker]

Yes -- super Lutheran, lol! Welcome, Ricker.

So I take it that for you the church, the gathering, is an interior and enclosed operation?

Far from it, but the primary reason for the church service itself is not to evangelize, but to minister. I would like to think we are very welcoming. We also have programs to reach out to the community at large to bring people to Christ.

 

[AzA]

Far from it, but the primary reason for the church service itself is not to evangelize, but to minister. I would like to think we are very welcoming. We also have programs to reach out to the community at large to bring people to Christ.

Ricker -- why did you think I was speaking of "the church service" -- as in the liturgy? I just noticed this aspect of your response.

Is your position that "the church" only exists around the liturgy?

 

[ricker]

Ricker -- why did you think I was speaking of "the church service" -- as in the liturgy? I just noticed this aspect of your response.

Is your position that "the church" only exists around the liturgy?

No. Hope this helps about liturgy. This is from the Augsburg confession. (1530 AD)

Article VII: Of the Church.

1] Also they (our church) teach that one holy Church is to continue forever. The Church is the congregation of saints, in which the Gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments are rightly administered.
2] And to the true unity of the Church it is enough to agree concerning the doctrine of the Gospel and 3] the administration of the Sacraments. Nor is it necessary that human traditions, that is, rites or ceremonies, instituted by men, should be everywhere alike. 4] As Paul says: One faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all, etc. Eph. 4:5-6.

Article VIII: What the Church Is.

1] Although the Church properly is the congregation of saints and true believers, nevertheless, since in this life many hypocrites and evil persons are mingled therewith, it is lawful to use Sacraments administered by evil men, according to the saying of Christ: The Scribes and 2] the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, etc. Matt. 23:2. Both the Sacraments and Word are effectual by reason of the institution and commandment of Christ, notwithstanding they be administered by evil men.

As for other things the church (Christians) should be involve in, to strive for peace and justice and to help the needy and take good care of God's creation, among other things. As Christians we should follow the great commission, and live as holy witnesses to Christ, whether collectively or singularly. Do you think denominations are anything more than the gathering of believers united in the faith?

 

[AzA]

No. Hope this helps about liturgy. This is from the Augsburg confession. (1530 AD)...
As for other things the church (Christians) should be involve in, to strive for peace and justice and to help the needy and take good care of God's creation, among other things. As Christians we should follow the great commission, and live as holy witnesses to Christ, whether collectively or singularly. Do you think denominations are anything more than the gathering of believers united in the faith?

Eh.... am still a little bit cloudy (I will blame a long day. )

If I do understand you right, no sacramemts = no church. So church is the group that performs the sacraments and has the "correct" formulation of the gospel as you all understand it. Yea? Nay?

To me, denominations are groups. Nothing intrinsically magic or irrefutably logical there -- but there is the magic of humans in relationship, and the logic of social order. I have a soft spot in my heart for one or two such groups -- but that's because of where I happened to be born and who I happened to be born to.

Did I misunderstand your question?

 

[ricker]

[e=AzA;52282784]Eh.... am still a little bit cloudy (I will blame a long day. )

If I do understand you right, no sacramemts = no church. So church is the group that performs the sacraments and has the "correct" formulation of the gospel as you all understand it. Yea? Nay?

More or less yea. The church is where Christians gather and confess, praise, worship, and hear God's word, the Gospel. A church that doesn't offer the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper would not be a correct Christian church in my understanding.
In our church there are groups that have specific ministries for helping each other and the community, as well as more intense Bible study.

To me, denominations are groups. Nothing intrinsically magic or irrefutably logical there -- but there is the magic of humans in relationship, and the logic of social order. I have a soft spot in my heart for one or two such groups -- but that's because of where I happened to be born and who I happened to be born to.

I have found specific church congregations can have very different dynamics within the same denomination. My current church home is much friendlier and more spiritual than my last church home in the same denomination.

I enjoyed certain aspects of the fellowship of SDAism quite a bit.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

To me, denominations are groups. Nothing intrinsically magic or irrefutably logical there -- but there is the magic of humans in relationship, and the logic of social order. I have a soft spot in my heart for one or two such groups -- but that's because of where I happened to be born and who I happened to be born to.

I think that I share your perspective on denominations.

Although my family and I have embraced another group of humans in relationship, I still have a soft spot for the group into which I was born. I have great memories of camp meetings and vespers and Pathfinders and Christmas programs.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

I think that I share your perspective on denominations.

Although my family and I have embraced another group of humans in relationship, I still have a soft spot for the group into which I was born. I have great memories of camp meetings and vespers and Pathfinders and Christmas programs.

BFA

We know something about how old you are by knowing whether you listened to Led Zeppelin on Sabbath at youth camp as part of an afternoon session on backmasking! (Or maybe you led it!)

This is one of the more bizarre Adventist youth memories for me.

 

[Cribstyl]

More or less yea. The church is where Christians gather and confess, praise, worship, and hear God's word, the Gospel. A church that doesn't offer the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper would not be a correct Christian church in my understanding.
In our church there are groups that have specific ministries for helping each other and the community, as well as more intense Bible study.

strongly agree

I have found specific church congregations can have very different dynamics within the same denomination. My current church home is much friendlier and more spiritual than my last church home in the same denomination.

I enjoyed certain aspects of the fellowship of SDAism quite a bit.[/quote]
I do too.....I have forged a fellowship with SDA brothers and sisters for life.......

The truth is.....I use this forum to challenge doctrines, in order to learn and understand SDA church .....But most importantly to share what is written vs what is reasoned.

CRIB

 

[believehim]

I think that I share your perspective on denominations.

Although my family and I have embraced another group of humans in relationship, I still have a soft spot for the group into which I was born. I have great memories of camp meetings and vespers and Pathfinders and Christmas programs.

BFA

I too still have great memories of the SDA church and still miss my time in her. Because of poor doctrines I left her years ago. But I still have great reflections about the good ol fun and closeness I shared within her. Till this day, I have not shared the closeness and fun in my denomination now, as I did in her. If she would give up the false doctrines and made Mrs White to her as to what Luther is to his denomination, I would run back.

 

[believehim]

In your own words, please...

A. What's the church?
B. What's it for?

A. The body of Christ!
B. To give God the glory!

 

[Byfaithalone1]

We know something about how old you are by knowing whether you listened to Led Zeppelin on Sabbath at youth camp as part of an afternoon session on backmasking! (Or maybe you led it!)

This is one of the more bizarre Adventist youth memories for me.

I have the same bizarre memory, except mine happened in my SDA high school.

It's interesting that I never heard the song "Cold Nicky" (by Prince) until I heard it played (along with the words printed on the screen) in an SDA high school assembly (all in the name of educating us on the dangers of rock music).

BFA

 

[sentipente]

A circle is not a square.

 

[NaLuvena]

What is the Church? The sheep that hear the Shepard's voice.

What's in for?

To hear the voice of the Shepard and obey.