Ancient tech and knowledge

[stevevw]

This post was ridiculously long, it took me about a dozen screens to scroll through it. That is unwieldy to respond too, especially given that once I create a reply I have to scroll through all of that to find the text in my post that you were responding to in your post. I'm going to try to respond to most of it, but in topical chunks. Please do not try to relink them together or go into stuff outside that particular topic.

Ok. It is a big and complex topic.

 

[stevevw]

This is not even related to any of the sites you've previously quoted. It has nothing to do with any astronomical intepretations of the Göbekli Tepe carvings.

It was meant to support the fact that a big part of cultures back then all over the world was reading the skies and putting that into their glyphs. They lived by the seasons, the Solstis, Equinox, procession, star constellations.

So they would have seen a big comet getting closer and closer to the earth and mentioned that in their glyphs. Why wouldn't they if they are recording other stuff happening in the sky.

This is to support the point that we can and are decoding these ancient glyphs and they tell us of a catastrophe that happened around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

This is also reflected in the stories of the ancient cultures themselves. They all speak of a lost knowledge, of a great disaster that happened in the past.

This is also reflected in the precision and megalith works which seem to stop and are replaced by smaller and less precise works in softer stones. I don't think these are all coincidences.

 

[stevevw]

I'm not quite sure what the research of engineering professors are, but none have any relevant experience to the attempted work.

True but my point was we can know that this engineering professor had some knowledge because he is supported by the actual experts who have produced similar findings independent of his work.

If there are you should find them in the author lists of his papers. (This new one below is a single author paper, no astronomers or other relevant researchers on the team apparently.)

So basically 4 or 5 independent researchers come to similar findings. Like I said if a culture like Gobekli Tepe was around to either witness the final stages of a comet coming to earth near to where they lived surely they would have mentioned this considering that we have proven beyond doubt that cultures during that time included astrological and religious glyphs.

It would be like a war historian who lived through WW2 neglected to mention WW2 in their history of war.

Measuring an ancienet site is surveying, while this is a skill civil engineering students learn as do archeologists. (Sweatman is a materials engineer. No surveying needed for that field.) The positions of stars is astronomy. No engineers needed for that even materials engineers.

Yes so obviously when one ventures into a specialised field, perhaps related will need to do a lot of research. Just like any writer of tru life and not necessarily being an expert in all fields. It is possible especially if one comes from the sciences to begin with.

Like I said he must have been doing something right as independent researchers came to similar findings.

At this point I have to insert a bit from further up, because you actually repeated some "citations" within the post and this one:

Oh great. The Scottish engineer is playing historical astronomer and anthropologist again.

I'm not having a good run with these am I. lol Its like how many electricians does it take to change a light bulb. Just one. So it is with experts. It doesn't matter if they don't have all the qualifications as long as they do the research and if the experts also agree then you know you are on the right track.

This is now pretty mainstream now.

"Ancient people may have created these carvings at Göbekli Tepe to record the date a swarm of comet fragments hit Earth nearly 13,000 years ago — or 10,850 BCE,"

Carvings at ancient monument may be world’s oldest calendar

Markings on a stone pillar at a 12,000 year-old archaeological site in Turkey likely represent the world’s oldest solar calendar, created as a memorial to a devastating comet strike, experts suggest.

www.eurekalert.org

They found an alignment to a stellar event. So what. No evidence beyond speculation is given why the setting point of Deneb would matter to the builders of those structures. None. An importance based on an interpretation (Greek astrology) far closer to our time than theirs is utterly unconvincing. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find a "meaningful" astronomical event aligned to the not-quite N-S orientation of the ridge line of my roof. If their alignment had been to the setting or rising of the Sun on one of those special days (like a solistice or equinox) as is found at Stonehenge it would be plausible. Instead this is nothing more than academic noise.

As the evidence shows its more thaaan noise. And Gobekli Tepe is not the only culture.

Not near Turkey.

Yes evidence has been found for a comet air burst around Turkey 12,000 years ago.

Here's evidence of an comet air burst with the layers 12,800 years ago around northern Syria. But also there are other locations as this may have been a fragmented comet that didn't hit the earth as one but broke up and caused air burst around the world and perhaps one large crator hit around Alaska and Canada.

Evidence of Cosmic Impact at Abu Hureyra, Syria at the Younger Dryas Onset (~12.8 ka): High-temperature melting at >2200 °C
The wide range of evidence supports the hypothesis that a cosmic event occurred at Abu Hureyra ~12,800 years ago, coeval with impacts that deposited high-temperature meltglass, melted microspherules, and/or platinum at other YDB sites on four continents.

Evidence of Cosmic Impact at Abu Hureyra, Syria at the Younger Dryas Onset (~12.8 ka): High-temperature melting at >2200 °C - Scientific Reports

At Abu Hureyra (AH), Syria, the 12,800-year-old Younger Dryas boundary layer (YDB) contains peak abundances in meltglass, nanodiamonds, microspherules, and charcoal. AH meltglass comprises 1.6 wt.% of bulk sediment, and crossed polarizers indicate that the meltglass is isotropic. High YDB...

www.nature.com

That's not far from Gobekli Tepe so they surely must have seen it happening before it actually hit.

Also happened in other parts of the world at the same time so it was pretty big and wide spread. Surely most of the northern hemisphere would have witnessed this in the night sky for months if not years getting closer and closer and would mention this.

Platinum, shock-fractured quartz, microspherules, and meltglass widely distributed in Eastern USA at the Younger Dryas onset (12.8 ka)

Platinum, shock-fractured quartz, microspherules, and meltglass widely distributed in Eastern USA at the Younger Dryas onset (12.8 ka)

<p xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" class="first" dir="auto" id="d85385e428"> Sediment sequences spanning the 12,800-year-old lower Younger Dryas boundary (YDB) were investigated at three widely separated sites in eastern North America (Parsons...

www.scienceopen.com

 

[stevevw]

I said " Third comets have no connection to a glacial outflow flood event in the Arctic or anywhere else. "

To which you replied:


And then posted these links.

Which make a claim that the Younger Dryas climate shift was cause by comet impacts and DO NOT make the claim that those comets triggered floods. Do you even parse what was written before posting 3 links?

Ok I have several articles on this and most speak of the ice melts Pulse Melt 1A and 1B as part of the melt from the comet his or airbursts that heated large sections of ice.

Think about it. A large comet hit or air burst/s are happening over the northern hemisphere which happens to be during an ice age. It was during this time we have evidence of a spike in temperature. Something upset the cycle and pushed the temperature up fast. So of course there is going to be floods. Thats not in question. Its a matter of how the floods happened.

Meltwater routing and the Younger Dryas

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1207381109]

Did a comet burst crash Earth’s climate 12,800 years ago?
Not all scientists accept the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis as the cause of the cooling. Others believe the jet stream shifted, causing polar ice to melt.

| EarthSky

earthsky.org

Did the Younger Dryas Flood Shape Prehistoric Earth?

Discover How The Younger Dryas Flood Shaped Prehistoric Earth

The idea of a biblical flood was dismissed by scientists as religious nonsense. One scientist, however, set out to prove that the evidence for the Younger Dryas Flood explained how the North American Ice Sheet melted so suddenly at the end of the last ice age. To date, no other theory can...

humanoriginproject.com

 

[Hans Blaster]

It was meant to support the fact that a big part of cultures back then all over the world was reading the skies and putting that into their glyphs. They lived by the seasons, the Solstis, Equinox, procession, star constellations.

So they would have seen a big comet getting closer and closer to the earth and mentioned that in their glyphs. Why wouldn't they if they are recording other stuff happening in the sky.

This is to support the point that we can and are decoding these ancient glyphs and they tell us of a catastrophe that happened around 12 to 14,000 years ago.

This is also reflected in the stories of the ancient cultures themselves. They all speak of a lost knowledge, of a great disaster that happened in the past.

This is also reflected in the precision and megalith works which seem to stop and are replaced by smaller and less precise works in softer stones. I don't think these are all coincidences.

They are pictures (to the extent that they can be identified) of things found in the local environment of the culture (animals, etc.). Claiming they are constellations (especially anything like our Greek constellations) and projecting thing like catastrophes, lost knowledge, etc. is just fantasy. There is just no justification for such a claim.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ok I have several articles on this and most speak of the ice melts Pulse Melt 1A and 1B as part of the melt from the comet his or airbursts that heated large sections of ice.

Steve, If you want to discuss the Younger Dryas meltwater pules open a thread in P&BS where it belongs and we can discuss it there. I don't think "History" is the appropriate category for events happening before the invention of writing.

 

[stevevw]

Steve, If you want to discuss the Younger Dryas meltwater pules open a thread in P&BS where it belongs and we can discuss it there. I don't think "History" is the appropriate category for events happening before the invention of writing.

Ah so its ok to talk about this until you don't want to and it then suddenly becomes irrelevant to our discussion. You said "Third comets have no connection to a glacial outflow flood event in the Arctic or anywhere else. "
and
Which make a claim that the Younger Dryas climate shift was cause by comet impacts and DO NOT make the claim that those comets triggered floods.

I then replied that the links I supplied link a comet hit or air pulse with the ice melt flooding during the Younger Dryas. How is my logical reply to what we were talking about suddenly constitute making a new thread. It was a reasonable follow on to what we were discussing.

Remember your challenging that these ancient people did not have knowledge of these events in the glyphs or that they had advanced knowledge full stop. The discussion about the glyphs and astronomical, geometric and other advanced knowledge is related to ancient advanced knowledge. Like the Egyptians and the atronomy, math and geometry of the vases, statues, boxes, and megaliths like the pyramids.

 

[AaronClaricus]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825223001915

Comprehensive refutation of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH)​

Abstract​

A series of publications purport to provide evidence that the Earth was subjected to an extraterrestrial event or events at ∼12.9 ka creating an environmental cataclysm and the onset of the Younger Dryas stadial. The varied and sometime conflicting speculations in those publications have become known collectively as the “Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis” (YDIH). As the YDIH has evolved, it has yet to converge into a hypothesis with a self-consistent scenario involving orbital dynamics, impact physics, geology, geochemistry, paleobotany, paleoclimatology, and anthropology. The YDIH invokes a cosmic event at a moment in time to explain complex processes that varied in space and time around the globe. No craters have been identified that date to the onset of the Younger Dryas. The physical evidence offered in support of an impact is nano to microscopic in scale, e.g., charcoal, carbon spherules, magnetic grains/spherules, nanodiamonds, and Pt minerals to name a few. However, many have critical issues with their identification, measurement, and interpretation. Furthermore, most are associated with terrestrial processes not uniquely associated with impacts or periods of abrupt climate change. Very few sites with high levels of any of the purported indicators have accurate and high-precision dating to 12.9 ka. The identification and quantification of several purported impact indicators is also questionable. The claim that a suite of supposed indicators is unique to that moment is not substantiated with data. There is no obvious evidence of environmental cataclysm at that time in the vast published geomorphic or paleobotanical records. There is no support for the basic premise of the YDIH that human populations were diminished, and individual species of late Pleistocene megafauna became extinct or were diminished due to catastrophe. Evidence and arguments purported to support the YDIH involve flawed methodologies, inappropriate assumptions, questionable conclusions, misstatements of fact, misleading information, unsupported claims, irreproducible observations, logical fallacies, and selected omission of contrary information. In this comprehensive review of the available evidence, we address and draw attention to these critical failings. We demonstrate that research in numerous fields has shown the YDIH should be rejected.

 

[stevevw]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825223001915

Comprehensive refutation of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis (YDIH)​

Abstract​

A series of publications purport to provide evidence that the Earth was subjected to an extraterrestrial event or events at ∼12.9 ka creating an environmental cataclysm and the onset of the Younger Dryas stadial. The varied and sometime conflicting speculations in those publications have become known collectively as the “Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis” (YDIH). As the YDIH has evolved, it has yet to converge into a hypothesis with a self-consistent scenario involving orbital dynamics, impact physics, geology, geochemistry, paleobotany, paleoclimatology, and anthropology. The YDIH invokes a cosmic event at a moment in time to explain complex processes that varied in space and time around the globe. No craters have been identified that date to the onset of the Younger Dryas. The physical evidence offered in support of an impact is nano to microscopic in scale, e.g., charcoal, carbon spherules, magnetic grains/spherules, nanodiamonds, and Pt minerals to name a few. However, many have critical issues with their identification, measurement, and interpretation. Furthermore, most are associated with terrestrial processes not uniquely associated with impacts or periods of abrupt climate change. Very few sites with high levels of any of the purported indicators have accurate and high-precision dating to 12.9 ka. The identification and quantification of several purported impact indicators is also questionable. The claim that a suite of supposed indicators is unique to that moment is not substantiated with data. There is no obvious evidence of environmental cataclysm at that time in the vast published geomorphic or paleobotanical records. There is no support for the basic premise of the YDIH that human populations were diminished, and individual species of late Pleistocene megafauna became extinct or were diminished due to catastrophe. Evidence and arguments purported to support the YDIH involve flawed methodologies, inappropriate assumptions, questionable conclusions, misstatements of fact, misleading information, unsupported claims, irreproducible observations, logical fallacies, and selected omission of contrary information. In this comprehensive review of the available evidence, we address and draw attention to these critical failings. We demonstrate that research in numerous fields has shown the YDIH should be rejected.

Thats what they said about the catastrophe that wiped out the dinosaurs and they ended up being wrong.

Theres too much independent evidence now that has accumulated from different lines to dismiss the YD floods. We definitely know there was suddent climate change during the end of the last iceage.

We know there was massive flooding from geology showing floods that wash away massive chunks of the earth down to the bedrock' Such as the Channelled Scablands, Dry Falls North Eastern Washington and massive current ripples across the glode. As well as massive bedrock scars across North Africa from massive flooding and flooding around the Mediteranian sea and may other places dated to around 12,000 years ago.

We have evidence of massive fires or heat that scorched the earth in layers around 12,000 years ago. We have found spikes in platinum and microspherules in those same layers all over the northern hemisphere. New sights have been discovered every year.

We even have evidence from forests that existed during this time that show the sudden climate change in their rings and seeds showing sudden change dated back to around 12,000 years. So the evidence is mounting from different lines that all point to the YD.

We also have from the cultures themselves in stories passed down all over the world who speak of great devastation and flooding. How many lines of evidence does one need.

The evidence is being replicated all over the world and replication is good science. New discoveries are building a strong case for the hypothesis.

But it doesn't matter anyway because no one denies that the flooding and widspread destruction did not happen or that there was a sudden climate change. Its just dispute over how it happened and now it seems the most plausable explanation for this sudden change was some catastrophe as the change was too quick to be natural evolution.

New evidence that an extraterrestrial collision 12,800 years ago triggered an abrupt climate change for Earth
The evidence is mounting that the cause of the Younger Dryas' cooling climate came from outer space. My own recent fieldwork at a South Carolina lake that has been around for at least 20,000 years adds to the growing pile of evidence.
New evidence that an extraterrestrial collision 12,800 years ago triggered an abrupt climate change for Earth

Study uncovers new evidence supporting Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis
Excavations of the YD period layer at all three locations have revealed significantly higher quantities of shock-fractured quartz, platinum, and microspherules, compared to soil strata from earlier and later periods. This was the first time that shock-fractured quartz has been found at the YD depth at multiple sites.
Study uncovers new evidence supporting Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis

African evidence support Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis
Evidence of a remarkable "platinum spike" at a site called Wonderkrater in the Limpopo Province, north of Pretoria in South Africa. This evidence from a core drilled in a peat deposit, notably in a sample about 12 800 years old
African evidence support Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis

Geologic evidence supports theory that major cosmic impact event occurred approximately 12,800 years ago
Discovery of a very young, 31-kilometer-wide impact crater beneath the Greenland ice sheet, which they believe may have been one of the many comet fragments that impacted Earth at the onset of the Younger Dryas. They included a "black mat" layer, 12,800 years in age, that coincided with the disappearance of South American Pleistocene megafauna fossils, an abrupt shift in regional vegetation and a disappearance of human artifacts. The amount of bones, artifacts and megafauna-associated fungi that were relatively abundant in the soil at the Pilauco site declined precipitously at the impact layer, indicating a major local disruption. The sedimentary and paleo-vegetative evidence gathered at the Pilauco site is in line with previous, separate studies conducted by Chilean scientists that indicate a widespread burn and sudden major climate shifts in the region at about YDB onset.
Geologic evidence supports theory that major cosmic impact event occurred approximately 12,800 years ago

Searching for clues on extreme climate change
Researchers at the GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences in Potsdam, together with international colleagues, have, for the first time, combined classic tree ring width measurements with chemical (stable isotope) analyses of carbon and oxygen in tree rings to reconstruct climate variables. With accurate radiocarbon dating, the scientists were able to prove that the buried pines had started their growth in the warm days of the Allerød just before the Younger Dryas and had survived the sudden cold snap for several decades. They were thus witnesses of this extreme climate change.
Searching for clues on extreme climate change

Premature rejection in science: The case of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis
Finally, we can now assess Sweatman's suggestion that the YDIH may be ready for promotion from hypothesis to the status of theory. There is a strong case that it does. Moreover, it should not be forgotten that no other single theory can explain the YD and its associated effects.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00368504211064272#fig4-00368504211064272

Experts find evidence of 12,000-year-old flood of epic proportions that drained an ancient lake at a rate of more than 800 Olympic swimming pools per second
A 12,000 year-old flood that drained a lake at speeds of more than 800 Olympic swimming pools per second may have pushed Earth back into an ice age
Experts find 12,000-year-old flood that drained lake at high speeds

Scientific Evidence for the Many Myths of the Great Flood
Scientific Evidence for the Many Myths of the Great Flood

I mean look at these mega flood flows across north Africa just from google earth.

.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The missing link is occultism. The ancients used supernatural powers like telekinesis in the place of technology. There was no advanced technology.

The reason why they didn't last was because the powers were demonic and it resulted in their ruin.

If machinery was used, parts would have been left behind from wear and tear.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The missing link is occultism. The ancients used supernatural powers like telekinesis in the place of technology. There was no advanced technology.

They did what? Demonstrate it and provide a mechanism for "telekinesis" to function.

The reason why they didn't last was because the powers were demonic and it resulted in their ruin.

If machinery was used, parts would have been left behind from wear and tear.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The missing link is occultism. The ancients used supernatural powers like telekinesis in the place of technology. There was no advanced technology.

The reason why they didn't last was because the powers were demonic and it resulted in their ruin.

If machinery was used, parts would have been left behind from wear and tear.

That is hilarious and just as racist as the idea put forward by the OP.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ah so its ok to talk about this until you don't want to and it then suddenly becomes irrelevant to our discussion. You said "Third comets have no connection to a glacial outflow flood event in the Arctic or anywhere else. "
and
Which make a claim that the Younger Dryas climate shift was cause by comet impacts and DO NOT make the claim that those comets triggered floods.

I then replied that the links I supplied link a comet hit or air pulse with the ice melt flooding during the Younger Dryas. How is my logical reply to what we were talking about suddenly constitute making a new thread. It was a reasonable follow on to what we were discussing.

Remember your challenging that these ancient people did not have knowledge of these events in the glyphs or that they had advanced knowledge full stop. The discussion about the glyphs and astronomical, geometric and other advanced knowledge is related to ancient advanced knowledge. Like the Egyptians and the atronomy, math and geometry of the vases, statues, boxes, and megaliths like the pyramids.

I was very clear in my earlier post: This is a science topic and it should be discussed in the science board. This sub-sub section is not for the kinds of debates we've had. (Just look at the other sections under: "society and leisure").

Take it back to science and we'll talk.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That is hilarious and just as racist as the idea put forward by the OP.

I got the idea when reading the arguments, occultism would make more sense.

I'm glad you found it funny.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I got the idea when reading the arguments, occultism would make more sense.

I'm glad you found it funny.

So, just to check, you weren't being serious.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So, just to check, you weren't being serious.

I wasn't there. How could I be?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I wasn't there. How could I be?

It is the internet. I've seen people see much stranger things with a serious face.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It is the internet. I've seen people see much stranger things with a serious face.

That's true, I've seen people say jokes with a straight face and never admit it too.

 

[stevevw]

I was very clear in my earlier post: This is a science topic and it should be discussed in the science board. This sub-sub section is not for the kinds of debates we've had. (Just look at the other sections under: "society and leisure").

Take it back to science and we'll talk.

Thats what I thought and why I put it under science or more towards the hard sciences. But the mods moved it not me.

Though I still maintain that the social sciences is another line of evidence.

We have a few threads in the science section on ancient tech I think anyway.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thats what I thought and why I put it under science or more towards the hard sciences. But the mods moved it not me.

Though I still maintain that the social sciences is another line of evidence.

We have a few threads in the science section on ancient tech I think anyway.

So, do you have any nuts or bolts that fell out of the alien space ships?

Speaking of evidence ..