Anabaptists and Baptists

[Sola1517]

I once read in a book that there is a theory that the Baptist denomination was born out of the Anabaptist tradition. I don't see how this could be. My reasoning, how can Baptists be so gun ho about believing the Scriptures when in the Anabaptist camp there is such blatant disregard and rejection of the propositions... of Scripture?

 

[rockytopva]

I would take Anabaptist to mean any denomination that will baptize adults the second time, even though they may have been baptized as a baby. Therefore Anabaptist could be Amish, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Charismatic, or non-denominational. We basically believe that baptism is only good when such a Christian gets saved and is ready for it.

 

[Sola1517]

I would take Anabaptist to mean any denomination that will baptize adults the second time, even though they may have been baptized as a baby. Therefore Anabaptist could be Amish, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Charismatic, or non-denominational. We basically believe that baptism is only good when such a Christian gets saved and is ready for it.

Okay, if that's all that it is... Fine.

I don't get why an Anabaptist would think that women leading churches is a "non-issue" though. Do you read the Bible?

 

[rockytopva]

Okay, if that's all that it is... Fine.

I don't get why an Anabaptist would think that women leading churches is a "non-issue" though. Do you read the Bible?

Being baptized the second time was a big deal in its day.

 

[PloverWing]

I once read in a book that there is a theory that the Baptist denomination was born out of the Anabaptist tradition. I don't see how this could be. My reasoning, how can Baptists be so gun ho about believing the Scriptures when in the Anabaptist camp there is such blatant disregard and rejection of the propositions... of Scripture?

Baptists share with Anabaptists the custom of believers' baptism, but otherwise they're a different group. Anabaptists are the groups that came out of the Radical Reformation, groups like Amish, Mennonites, and Quakers.

What do you have in mind when you say the Anabaptists disregard and reject the propositions of Scripture? In my experience, the Anabaptists take the Sermon on the Mount more seriously than any other Christian community, including my own.

 

[Sola1517]

Baptists share with Anabaptists the custom of believers' baptism, but otherwise they're a different group. Anabaptists are the groups that came out of the Radical Reformation, groups like Amish, Mennonites, and Quakers.

What do you have in mind when you say the Anabaptists disregard and reject the propositions of Scripture? In my experience, the Anabaptists take the Sermon on the Mount more seriously than any other Christian community, including my own.

I mean, people like Benjamin L. Corey. You know who that is?

I don't get why an Anabaptist would think that women leading churches is a "non-issue" though.

Also this^

 

[Sola1517]

Being baptized the second time was a big deal in its day.

I got no problem with anybody being baptized a second time. I've thought about getting baptized again in fact.

My issue is what Anabaptists think about dogmatics & social issues and how the Baptist faith could've come out of that.

 

[PloverWing]

I mean, people like Benjamin L. Corey. You know who that is?

I had not heard of Benjamin L. Corey before reading your post. I have now skimmed his Wikipedia page, but I don't know enough about him to give an informed evaluation of him.

On women in leadership roles, Anabaptists hold a variety of opinions. Many Anabaptists believe in nonviolence; they place a high value on respecting other people and working for the good of other people, avoiding doing harm to others as far as this is possible. Affirming women in leadership is consistent with this set of values. But, again, Anabaptists vary in their opinions.

 

[DeaconDean]

"
John Smyth is considered the first Baptist by most historians. Formally a Anglican minister, Smyth became convinced that the Bible was the only sufficient guide to knowing God and adopted Arminian views of salvation and the idea of the baptism of believers only. Near the end of his life, he attempted to enter the Mennonite denomination but was denied entrance, dying in 1611 without being admitted to that congregation. His friend, Thomas Helwys, succeeded Smyth as the pastor of the congregation which followed Smyth and returned with his congregation to England and established one of the first Baptist churches in London.

Smyth and Helwys were greatly influenced by the Anabaptists in Holland, especially those from the Mennonite camp. This can be seen in their Arminian soteriology, repudation of infant baptism, and suspicion of sacramentalism. From the Smyth-Helwys congregation in London, Arminian Baptists (called General Baptists because they subscribed to a “general” or “universal” view of the atonement) began to spread throughout England. However, another variety of Baptists also rose up during this time.

A few years after Smyth planted his Baptist church in Holland, an independent congregation of Baptists arose in the Horselydown area in London who professed a Calvinistic soteriology. The origins of this church are not well known by historians. However, many famous Baptist came out of this congregation, including Benjamin Keach, John Gill, and the “Prince of Preachers” himself, Charles Spurgeon. Their influence can be felt in the 1689 Baptist Confession and the presence of Calvinistic theology among American Baptist churches.

Although many seek to locate the origin of Baptists in one group or another, it seems as though Baptists have their origins from at least three strands of thought: Anabaptists by way of Smyth and Helwys, the progression of Baptist thought after Smyth and Helwys, and the Reformed Baptist congregation at Horselydown that spawned other Reformed Baptist churches throughout England and America. Of course, to be Baptist does not mean embracing a type of apostolic succession but to hold to Baptist principles and Baptist beliefs based upon the Biblical witness. This is what Baptists in every age have believed."

Baptist Origins: The Story of the First Baptists

And if you look, not very hard I say, you will also find some groups that advocate Baptists can trace their beginnings back to John the Baptist. (I don't, but there are some who do)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Baptists share with Anabaptists the custom of believers' baptism, but otherwise they're a different group. Anabaptists are the groups that came out of the Radical Reformation, groups like Amish, Mennonites, and Quakers.

What do you have in mind when you say the Anabaptists disregard and reject the propositions of Scripture? In my experience, the Anabaptists take the Sermon on the Mount more seriously than any other Christian community, including my own.

Just for the record. Quakers are not Anabaptists. They completely reject water baptism in any form.

 

[PloverWing]

Just for the record. Quakers are not Anabaptists. They completely reject water baptism in any form.

This is true, and the Wikipedia page does not list them among the Anabaptists, probably for that reason. However, I have heard them counted among the Anabaptists because they come out of the Radical Reformation, and because they share many values, including nonviolence and simplicity. Note that Quakers do reject infant baptism, so in that way they are similar to the Mennonites and other Anabaptist groups.

 

[Albion]

Yes, but the dissimilarities are probably more notable.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, but the dissimilarities are probably more notable.

I agree. Historically, there has been very little cross-over between the Society of Friends (Quakers) and the Anabaptists. Although William Penn welcomed German Anabaptists, along with virtually all other religious groups, to his Quaker colony, Pennsylvania, there was virtually no intermingling between the Quakers and the Anabaptists. Interestingly, later in life Penn joined the religious group closer to his own beliefs, the Church of England.

 

[DeaconDean]

Just for the record. Quakers are not Anabaptists. They completely reject water baptism in any form.

Pardon me, I stand corrected.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

The connection is sometimes made because they have some similar beliefs despite their different origins.

The Anabaptists were apart of the Radical Reformation, a group who thought that the Protestant Reformation wasn't going far enough. They believed in credobaptism, nonresistance, and sola scriptura.

The Baptists first made their appearance in the 17th Century when John Smyth, an Anglican bishop, thought that the Anglican Church was corrupt and essentially no different from the RCC. His followers became known as Baptists, and they were exiled to the Netherlands where they lived with the Mennonites, and were influenced by some Mennonite doctrines.

 

[Sola1517]

I had not heard of Benjamin L. Corey before reading your post. I have now skimmed his Wikipedia page, but I don't know enough about him to give an informed evaluation of him.

On women in leadership roles, Anabaptists hold a variety of opinions. Many Anabaptists believe in nonviolence; they place a high value on respecting other people and working for the good of other people, avoiding doing harm to others as far as this is possible. Affirming women in leadership is consistent with this set of values. But, again, Anabaptists vary in their opinions.

Okay, maybe I'm just shooting from the hip on some of this stuff.

Benjamin L. Corey writes at Patheos.com .

 

[Don Maurer]

I once read in a book that there is a theory that the Baptist denomination was born out of the Anabaptist tradition. I don't see how this could be. My reasoning, how can Baptists be so gun ho about believing the Scriptures when in the Anabaptist camp there is such blatant disregard and rejection of the propositions... of Scripture?

The term "AnaBaptists" is sometimes oversimplified to refer to Mennonites and Amish. Certainly the Amish and Mennonites trace their heritage back to the continental anabaptists, but the early anabaptists were not a solitary unified group. They were very diverse.
* There were anabaptists as early as the reformation in Zurich. Conrad Grebel is a well known early Anabaptist. Conrad Grebel would have preceeded John Calvin, Menno Simons, and the later Remonstrants (first Arminians). Grebel would have been a predecessor to the Mennonites and was among the group called "Swiss Brethren."
* The Swiss Brethren were anabaptists, but at the same time, some anabaptist gathered in Munster Germany. Such men as Melchior Hoffman were before Calvin or the Mennonites. The Anabaptists of Munster were very different from the Swiss Brethren. In Munster, they espoused polygamy, and there were a lot of extreme excesses. The Lutherans and Catholics eventually destroyed Munster and wiped them out.

Menno Simons was actually not that close to the first generation of Reformers. He was a late comer, later in the 1500s. Simons unified much of continental Anabaptism.

As mentioned above, history has recorded a connection between John Smyth and the early General Baptists of England, and the continental Anabaptists. While there is a connection, the Baptists came from an English reformation, while the Mennonites and Amish were a continental tradition.

As far as the comment made in the OP.... "how can Baptists be so gun ho about believing the Scriptures when in the Anabaptist camp there is such blatant disregard and rejection of the propositions... of Scripture?" Most Mennonites would strongly disagree with such an statement and they would think you are misrepresenting them.

What is interesting to me is how similar the General (Arminian) Baptists are, and the Mennonites. I think what separates them more than their theology, is the fact that the General Baptists went through the fundamentalists movement, and the Mennonites did not. The result of this is that I see Mennonite pastors more frequently in theologically liberal associations than the conservative General Baptists.

It would interest me to see a poll among General Baptists and Mennonites on theological subjects today and see how close they really are.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The term "AnaBaptists" is sometimes oversimplified to refer to Mennonites and Amish. Certainly the Amish and Mennonites trace their heritage back to the continental anabaptists, but the early anabaptists were not a solitary unified group. They were very diverse.
* There were anabaptists as early as the reformation in Zurich. Conrad Grebel is a well known early Anabaptist. Conrad Grebel would have preceeded John Calvin, Menno Simons, and the later Remonstrants (first Arminians). Grebel would have been a predecessor to the Mennonites and was among the group called "Swiss Brethren."
* The Swiss Brethren were anabaptists, but at the same time, some anabaptist gathered in Munster Germany. Such men as Melchior Hoffman were before Calvin or the Mennonites. The Anabaptists of Munster were very different from the Swiss Brethren. In Munster, they espoused polygamy, and there were a lot of extreme excesses. The Lutherans and Catholics eventually destroyed Munster and wiped them out.

Menno Simons was actually not that close to the first generation of Reformers. He was a late comer, later in the 1500s. Simons unified much of continental Anabaptism.

As mentioned above, history has recorded a connection between John Smyth and the early General Baptists of England, and the continental Anabaptists. While there is a connection, the Baptists came from an English reformation, while the Mennonites and Amish were a continental tradition.

As far as the comment made in the OP.... "how can Baptists be so gun ho about believing the Scriptures when in the Anabaptist camp there is such blatant disregard and rejection of the propositions... of Scripture?" Most Mennonites would strongly disagree with such an statement and they would think you are misrepresenting them.

What is interesting to me is how similar the General (Arminian) Baptists are, and the Mennonites. I think what separates them more than their theology, is the fact that the General Baptists went through the fundamentalists movement, and the Mennonites did not. The result of this is that I see Mennonite pastors more frequently in theologically liberal associations than the conservative General Baptists.

It would interest me to see a poll among General Baptists and Mennonites on theological subjects today and see how close they really are.

Thank you for the excellent post.