An Interesting View on Paganism

Teh Wiccan · Nov 21, 2003

Carico said:
Apparently the Wiccans don't feel that their religion is right. They don't have very much faith in it.

Proof?

Mylinkay Asdara · Nov 21, 2003

The book snipet: pointless conjecture by someone who wants to make their religion seem like the end all be all and behind the scenes motivator of everything. Rather dim really.

WayMan: this is copy pasted from the Magic and Chrisitanity thread it's an explination of Wicca (very basic and general)

Okay, as an actual pagan-before the swarm of people who will call me a Satanist come buzzing about hopefully-I'll give you the basics of Wicca (which, by the way, is not the only form of paganism available in the world)

To start: Diety. This is the Divine. It is the Faceless One with Many Faces. The Creator Energy. It would equate in power to your God. This Entity is genderless and fairly impersonal as we can not directly comprehend such an Entity. Wicca chooses to divide the Divine into a Male and Female duality. The Male is further divided into three aspects: The Hunter (youth, vitality, fertility, lusty urge to procreate and so on), The Father (akin to the concept of the God of the New Testement, protective, guiding, loving, providing and so on), and The Wise Man (maturity, grandfatherly, wise, knowing, and so on). These three aspects can (although they are not always) be divided further into individual gods. Thor would be a Hunter-god or possibly a Father-god depending on the mythology one follows. Zeus would be a Father-god. Hades would be more of the Wiseman-god as might be Apollo despite the fact that he is a younger god. The Female aspect is also divided into three: The Maiden (youth, virginity often, purity always, independance, strength (sometimes even a masucline strength), and so on), the Mother (nurturing, loving, protective, sometimes aggressive in the protection of her children, akin to Mary as the Catholics view her sometimes, and so on), and the Crone (wise, 'hag' though she may be beautiful, renewed independance from men, no longer able to bear children she yet holds the keys to life and death as she has given life and now brings death, divination is generally her purview, and so on). These too can be divided further into individual goddesses. Athena is a Maiden goddess because of her purity and her independance, Artemis is also considered a Maiden-goddess. Hera is a Crone-goddess despite her age and beauty much of the time as is Hectate. Gaia, Brigid, Demeter, these are all Mother-goddesses (of which there are many).

That's a view of the Divine from a wiccan/pagan standpoint. Often a wiccan will follow the Lord and Lady (the Male and Female) without further distillation, but others have specific pantheons to which they subscribe and are more attuned with. These could be Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, Welsh, Native American even.

The main point of all this division is to become closer to Deity by aspecting Deity to a point where you can understand and form a relationship with part of Diety and thereby all of Deity in part.

Magic- the ultimate misconception it seems - comes from two sources: personal power and divine power. Personal power is energy from within one's self (aura, spirit, essence, what have you) or drawn from objects (stones, plants, stars, the sun, the moon, ect) and channeled through one's self. Divine power is just that, aid asked for and recieved from Diety directly through prayer (much like when a christian prays "Lord, give me strength" or other similar prayers).

Both energies are channeled and 'programed' with a specific intent. To do magic all you need is will and energy and the knowledge to make the energy do your will. All other tools associated with the Craft are just props and aids used to put the caster into a mindset more condusive to programming the energy. Some use drums to enter trance, others a wand to 'direct' the energy more efficently.

Once a purpose is decided the caster collects energy (usually within a protective or sacred circle cast about the altar- table with candles to honor gods one worships, salts for consecration, and any other tools the caster will be using for the spell-to keep the energy contained and harmful energies from interfereing with the caster) and programs it - usually by chants, prayers, incantations, visual aids and meditation, focused thought, or other means- to the specific intent. When enough energy has been accumulated it is sent forth by the caster, from the circle, into reality where it should then manifest the desired result.

That is wiccan/pagan magic at a basic level of understanding.

I hope this is helpful to those who were previously a bit in the dark about the process.

Mainly it covers magic, but the beggining is a bit more general. If you have further questions, please feel free to ask- knowledge is the only cure for ignorance.

Carico · Nov 21, 2003

I know my religion is a sure thing. If you knew your religion was a sure thing, why in the world wouldn't you want to share that with others? You either don't care enough about others or you do not believe your religion is a sure thing. Why would you only hope that someone else finds the same thing through another way that you're not sure of? The divinity you speak of is some vague mist that you cannot define. You don't KNOW who your creator is but you think it must something, just like a chld wishing upon a star. But you can't put your finger on it. You blieve in some unnamable energy that affects the powers of men and that is where you put your faith. Hitler, also believed in magic that affected the powers of men. He believed in the occult. Your "religion" is mystical which by its very definition is vague. I can see why you can't share it with others. You don't understand it yourself.

Mylinkay Asdara · Nov 21, 2003

A sure thing? Please. First: no such thing. Second: pagans aren't concerned with salvation- we don't think there's a need to be because we don't believe we are 'fallen' to begin with so your argument is made of straw it seems. (again)
Hitler appears often in your posts when you are arguing something- must you forever go to extremes?

You don't understand it yourself.

That's just insulting and I want an apology if you want me to continue talking to you. You know nothing of what others do and do not understand and you can't even be a big enough person not to throw mud in every post you make! I am really getting to the end of my patience with you and am seriously considering Ignoring you. Have a blessed day.

Carico · Nov 21, 2003

You're not fallen? Then you must believe you're perfect which is again playing God. You certainly don't belong with the rest of us human beings. Maybe we should be worshipping you. And yes, there is a sure thing. There is a God. You just haven't found Him yet.

Mylinkay Asdara · Nov 21, 2003

We don't believe you have to be perfect to also be 'not fallen'! Get it through your head. I'm tired of explaining this very basic concept to you.

Havoc · Nov 21, 2003

Anybody even remotely want to become a Christian after listening to Carico? Anybody glad they're not a Christian if it means being like him?

Very effective witness Carico. Your God must be so proud.

Agnostic-Inquisitor · Nov 21, 2003

One internet web comic i read once perfectly reiterates my feelings about the way christians view pagans

Two followers of Jesus are walking along a path through the woods when they see a bunch of pagans dancing in a clearing, they immediatly go to Jesus and tell him

"Jesus! Jesus! there are a bunch of pagans in the woods worshiping nature, butterlies, and happiness!"

Jesus says

"WHAT! we can't have that! they have to worship me and god!"

He immediatly sets of a full speed, his rightousness swirling about him, the pagans run screaming away, but he stricks them down with divine bolts of lightning and sends tremors and earthshakes to impede there flight, when they are all dead he pats himself on the back and jokes with his disicples.

"now lets go heal some leapers ey!"

Carico · Nov 21, 2003

Jesus said "If the world hates you, remember it hated me first." He was hated because He convicted the world of sin. Nobody, including myself wants to be convicted of sin. But if i don't admit the truth about myself then I will be trapped in my sin forever. Jesus was killed for His words. According to your logic, Havoc, then He was not a very effective witness for God either. Jesus didn't spare us the truth even though we didn't want to hear it. It seems that what you want is people to agree with you in order for you to like them. Your "love" for people has strings attached to it. I'm not going to play your game in order to win your approval. I've tried to show you how to come to God. In my last post I told you what you needed to do. But you're simpy not interested, and you berate me for it. No wonder you haven't received love from God. You bite the hands that try to feed you.

Havoc · Nov 21, 2003

NO you'd rather play your game to feel superior.

The fact is we don't know what Christ said, or what he did, or how he died. Nothing you've claimed thus far has any meaning until you can show those things. But it's interesting that you use your God to promote your bigotry and prejudice. I like lots of people, even on these forums, who don't agree with me. I don't like arrogant, self-righteous, bigots, and if your God really is just, neither does he. Quite frankly I wouldn't want to belong to a God that uses people like you to proseletyse for him.

Keep it coming Carico. You're one of the best tools Satan has these days.

Carico · Nov 21, 2003

Between the two of us, I'm the one who admits I'm a sinner. You're still trying to pretend you aren't a sinner. Who's trying to look superior?

SqueezetheShaman · Nov 21, 2003

Carico said:
You're not fallen? Then you must believe you're perfect which is again playing God. You certainly don't belong with the rest of us human beings. Maybe we should be worshipping you. And yes, there is a sure thing. There is a God. You just haven't found Him yet.

so what. he called himself a christian. we can both play these games. you aren't even worth responding to. so i shall end this here.

Smilin · Nov 21, 2003

SqueezetheShaman said:
by the way, the thread title is incredibly inaccurate. it isn't interesting in the least.

Welcome Back!

and what would you suggest?

At least it's better than 'Wiccans repent now or forever
burn in hell...wouldn't you agree?'

SqueezetheShaman · Nov 21, 2003

Havoc said:
You're one of the best tools Satan has these days.

amen.

Smilin · Nov 21, 2003

Carico said:
Between the two of us, I'm the one who admits I'm a sinner. You're still trying to pretend you aren't a sinner. Who's trying to look superior?

and who's being judgemental?

Forgive me, I'll have to catch up...
but perhaps you are failing to acknowledge
that some religions do not accept the notion of
'sin'. That, Carico, is not a notion of superiority..
it is a belief!

SqueezetheShaman · Nov 21, 2003

Smilin said:
Welcome Back!

and what would you suggest?

At least it's better than 'Wiccans repent now or forever
burn in hell...wouldn't you agree?'

Thank you happy to be back.

I would suggest something along the lines of what a few on here have mentioned. "A totally skewed view on Paganism, but it doesn't matter since my only intent is to bash another view of what is holy"

Smilin · Nov 21, 2003

SqueezetheShaman said:
amen.

WHOAHHH NELLIE...
Havoc just mentioned Satan? and outted one of his 'tools'.

I take a while to meditate and restore peace within
my being,,,, and Havoc discovers Satan...

Gee...what next?

Smilin · Nov 21, 2003

SqueezetheShaman said:
Thank you happy to be back.

Have the rules changed? That is: PLEASE don't Squeeze
the Shaman....

I would suggest something along the lines of what a few on here have mentioned. "A totally skewed view on Paganism, but it doesn't matter since my only intent is to bash another view of what is holy"

We've had a very interesting convo along these
lines on that 'other' place I invited you to, yet
you never returned... (Who's running off all my
guests? Is someone over there not practicing
proper body hygeine?)

The Christian (and Webster's definition) of Paganism
is totally off track. The term is used a loose definition
for all those "other than Christians", which stems
from total ignorance of other religions which existed
centuries before the coming of Christianity.

Smilin · Nov 21, 2003

SqueezetheShaman said:
so what. he called himself a christian. we can both play these games. you aren't even worth responding to. so i shall end this here.

DON'T GIVE UP NOW...it's Fourth Down...and time
for a 'Special Teams' play...

SqueezetheShaman · Nov 21, 2003

Smilin said:
Have the rules changed? That is: PLEASE don't Squeeze
the Shaman....

Oh NO! not at all, let the squeezing comence!

We've had a very interesting convo along these
lines on that 'other' place I invited you to, yet
you never returned... (Who's running off all my
guests? Is someone over there not practicing
proper body hygeine?)

i dunno....it is hard to get involved in new boards, and i have been trying to get involved with some gardening and home improvements, and get my lardbutt off the puter during the day.

The Christian (and Webster's definition) of Paganism
is totally off track. The term is used a loose definition
for all those "other than Christians", which stems
from total ignorance of other religions which existed
centuries before the coming of Christianity.

while we are discussing it, what would be the proper definition in your opinion?

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