An interesting observation

[FreeinChrist]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/05/right-needs-stop-falsely-claiming-that-nazis-were-socialists/

Did you know that “Nazi” is short for “National Socialist”? That means that Hitler and his henchmen were all socialists. Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist, too. That means Bernie Sanders and his supporters are the same as Nazis … doesn’t it?​

​

Anyone who has been on political Twitter in the past decade has seen a version of this syllogism. Conservatives, seeking to escape the “fascist” and “Nazi” labels tossed at them by leftist critics since the 1960s, have turned the tables. Books such as Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism” have noted that many leading fascists, such as Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, started out as socialists, just as many early 20th-century “progressives” embraced eugenic ideas ultimately linked to Nazi racist genocide. This connection has become a silver bullet for voices on the right like Dinesh D’Souza and Candace Owens: Not only is the reviled left, embodied in 2020 by figures like Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Elizabeth Warren, a dangerous descendant of the Nazis, but anyone who opposes it can’t possibly have ties to the Nazis’ odious ideas.​

​

There is only one problem: This argument is untrue. Although the Nazis did pursue a level of government intervention in the economy that would shock doctrinaire free marketeers, their “socialism” was at best a secondary element in their appeal. Indeed, most supporters of Nazism embraced the party precisely because they saw it as an enemy of and an alternative to the political left. A closer look at the connection between Nazism and socialism can help us better understand both ideologies in their historical contexts and their significance for contemporary politics.​

 

[YorkieGal]

Socialist/Nazi/Communism - whatever these truly mean has been lost as they have been used by both parties against one another as a way to blur motives on both sides. They are never used as a compliment because there is nothing complimentary about these styles of governance. I think it's silly for anyone to pretend that both parties aren't set on destroying our republic with name calling and projecting and the motive is to move us away from a republic. In the US, the Constitution is all that matters and any party saying otherwise is destructive and invalid.

 

[ARBITER01]

There is only one problem: This argument is untrue. Although the Nazis did pursue a level of government intervention in the economy that would shock doctrinaire free marketeers, their “socialism” was at best a secondary element in their appeal. Indeed, most supporters of Nazism embraced the party precisely because they saw it as an enemy of and an alternative to the political left. A closer look at the connection between Nazism and socialism can help us better understand both ideologies in their historical contexts and their significance for contemporary politics.

I know a lot of folks like to pin national socialism on one side of the political spectrum or the other, but to be fair, theirs was more of a third way, a combination of left and right policies.

They absolutely had collectivist/leftist policies, but they also included different forms of "right wing" policies. The left doesn't want them associated with them since their form of socialism was not like theirs, it wasn't based around Stalin, Marx, or any form of communism.

Hitler wanted a united Germany, and the combination of political views was just another one of the ways towards that sort of unification, although his views tended to change over a period of time.

Anyone interested in what National Socialism really was and how it progressed needs to purchase this book,...

https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-National-Socialism-Rainer-Zitelmann/dp/1852527900

In communism, everything is dictated by the state. In National Socialism, everything was dictated by the race.

 

[hislegacy]

What resemblance does the Democratic Party have with National socialism?

I can think of several actually;

1. Strong support for unions
2. Blaming the wealthy for not sharing their wealth.
3. Calling for a redistribution of wealth
4. Increased rules and regulations on businesses
5. Control of most of the media

There is others. Remember we are speaking of a political position - that's all.

 

[hislegacy]

By the time Hitler got control of the party, it was fascist, not socialist.

Not according to the current German Government. Please remember I am not likening them in actions to NAZI's - I would NEVER EVER do that. But there are similarities in their government methodology. (how the ran their government)

Certainly Modern day German's recognize their past and openly regard them as National Socialist.

Look at their 25 points

1. We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
2. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
3. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

Sound familiar?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Whose 25 points and where is the link?

 

[Fantine]

Unions, fair wages, a social safety net, and sensible business regulation are working well in many developed co,untries--from western Europe to Canada to Australia to New Zealand to the Pacific Rim.

These things are only negative when they are imposed on an unwilling populace by authoritarian dictators. The residents of countries who have so many of the safeguards you apparently despise are usually listed as "the happiest people on earth." (Denmark or the Netherlands is #1, I believe.)

Obviously, the U.S. doesn't have most of these programs--and right-wing media which distorts and ignores the truth play a big part.

You can see it especially during elections. The biggest example I remember is Tom Cotton v.s. Mark Pryor. Cotton kept blasting, "Mark Pryor wants to lower Medicare payments...." Not mentioning that he would like to gut Social Security, Medicare, the Affordable Care Act, and every social program that is sometimes the difference between starvation and homelessness for many.

We have several authoritarian demagogues running for the Republican nomination for president. Trump. DeSantis. Ramaswamy. Those are the three "must-avoids."

Authoritarianism is the main problem. And believe me, if we had educated voters, mandatory voting, and fairly drawn election districts the American people would freely choose fair wages, universal health care, and safe workplaces.

 

[QvQ]

The residents of countries who have so many of the safeguards you apparently despise are usually listed as "the happiest people on earth." (Denmark or the Netherlands is #1, I believe.)

Europeans are Tribal. Yes, there are many benefits in Denmark and the Netherlands IF your daddy and his daddy was Dutch or Dane from the time immemorial. Those are not "universal" benefits.
Americans were well aware of the automatic benefits bestowed by birth to Europeans and rejected the model.
In America, until President Johnson, a person received what he worked for. It was a better system. The soft socialism we have now, where a person is given according to birth (welfare) minority status as group entitlements is not going to work as in Russia it was discovered that no one would work under that system. The Russians adopted capitalist model during Peristroika.
The chinese solved the Socialist worker problem
In China, yes, a free house, free food and free health care ...close to a government assigned work place and a person will work the assigned job or be relocated to a free house, free food and free healthcare re-education camp.
Socialism is slavery as the Ugyhurs are trying to tell the world. The Chinese are trying to impose socialism slavery on the Ugyhurs. The Chinese may vote for involuntary servitude but the Uhyhurs do not.

 

[Lukaris]

Hitler and Stalin represent the conclusions of socialism. Whether it is right or left wing, it is a disaster in the making. I work as a laborer in a warehouse and would never vote to join a union.

 

[FenderTL5]

Yes, the National Socialist workers party (NAZI). We’re National Socialists

They self identify as such.

There are some in the US that self identity as "nationalist."
Do you make the same association with those?

 

[hislegacy]

There are some in the US that self identity as "nationalist."
Do you make the same association with those?

Missing a key word

 

[ARBITER01]

Unions, fair wages, a social safety net, and sensible business regulation are working well in many developed co,untries--from western Europe to Canada to Australia to New Zealand to the Pacific Rim.

These things are only negative when they are imposed on an unwilling populace by authoritarian dictators.

Let me ask you a few questions based around this statement, since we are on the subject of National Socialism,.... Do you think the German people were forced into accepting the National Socialist party? Do you think Hitler just forced his way into power somehow? The answer is no to both questions.

If you think so in any way, then you obviously don't understand their history much. Germany after the war was in squalor, digging around in trash cans for food, selling their daughters for pennies on the dollar to foreigners that traveled there for that very purpose. Their money was absolutely worthless, a whole wheelbarrow full of their money could only buy one loaf of bread.

Those people loved Hitler at the time, because he brought them out of their shame and back into prominence. The women devoted their sons and daughters to him and his cause. He traveled around in cars out in the open and no one shot at him,.... for years.

In my personal view, Nationalistic Socialism was the only socialism that ever really worked to some degree. These people were so strong and dedicated it took the world to take them down.

Instead of people just name-calling others as Nazi's and Fascists, people ought to do their homework and study what the real history was of Germany instead of just buy into hand-me-down stories and lies.

 

[Fantine]

Obviously Hitler also employed scapegoating and hate mongering--as Trump, DeSantis and other authoritarian demagogues do today. If voters' emotions are manipulated by a skilled dictator, is that free will?

 

[ARBITER01]

Obviously Hitler also employed scapegoating and hate mongering--as Trump, DeSantis and other authoritarian demagogues do today. If voters' emotions are manipulated by a skilled dictator, is that free will?

We love you too.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Let me ask you a few questions based around this statement, since we are on the subject of National Socialism,.... Do you think the German people were forced into accepting the National Socialist party? Do you think Hitler just forced his way into power somehow? The answer is no to both questions.

If you think so in any way, then you obviously don't understand their history much. Germany after the war was in squalor, digging around in trash cans for food, selling their daughters for pennies on the dollar to foreigners that traveled there for that very purpose. Their money was absolutely worthless, a whole wheelbarrow full of their money could only buy one loaf of bread.

Those people loved Hitler at the time, because he brought them out of their shame and back into prominence. The women devoted their sons and daughters to him and his cause. He traveled around in cars out in the open and no one shot at him,.... for years.

In my personal view, Nationalistic Socialism was the only socialism that ever really worked to some degree. These people were so strong and dedicated it took the world to take them down.

Instead of people just name-calling others as Nazi's and Fascists, people ought to do their homework and study what the real history was of Germany instead of just buy into hand-me-down stories and lies.

Wow. This is the first time I've seen a fellow Christian make Hitler out to be a veritable hero rather than the un-christian psychopath he really was ...

Please tell me that I'm actually misunderstanding what you've written. It'll put my mind at ease ...

 

[Aaron112]

Instead of people just name-calling others as Nazi's and Fascists, people ought to do their homework and study what the real history was of Germany instead of just buy into hand-me-down stories and lies.

The documentary
Between the wars illustrated in six hours movies , on prime or online streaming service,
how the
usa let hitler go a year and a half before the war started,
the usa could have prevented the war entirely,
but instead , along with britain (not great) , instigated the war
for
purposes not advertised to the public.

 

[FreeinChrist]

This Wow. This is the first time I've seen a fellow Christian make Hitler out to be a veritable hero rather than the un-christian psychopath he really was ...

Please tell me that I'm actually misunderstanding what you've written. It'll put my mind at ease ...

I think you misunderstood.

The German people were really downtrodden and broke and dishearteded after WWI left them really bad off. Hitler seemed to be the answer for many people as he brought hope to them. They didn't see the evil behind it. Under Hitler, their economy turned around and they started feeling proud to be German again. Lots of people in the world were followers because of his charisma and message. There was a Nazi party in the US until the warn. They did marches in Irvington NJ. This image is from Long Island, NY in the 1930s:

The image is from ABC news.

They missed the evil behind it and the bigotry with it.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Thinking is too difficult for most people it seems.... and finding the truth about history or even current news is unlikely to be achieved by all but a few.

Between the wars illustrated in six hours movies , on prime or online streaming service,
how the
usa let hitler go a year and a half before the war started,
the usa could have prevented the war entirely,
but instead , along with britain (not great) , instigated the war
for
purposes not advertised to the public.

That belongs in Conspiracy Theories.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Whose 25 points and where is the link?

I am asking again.

I ask because modern Germany has a Social Security pension for the elderly, and a type of medicare and a government run health plan for people, who can also get private insurance. Some republicans would call that socialism. But their economy is capitalist. The same with the Scandanavian countries. They are capitalists but also have national health insurance and social security type of plans.


If you are trying to link the Nazis to the Democratic party, well, that is a failure.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think you misunderstood.

The German people were really downtrodden and broke and dishearteded after WWI left them really bad off. Hitler seemed to be the answer for many people as he brought hope to them. They didn't see the evil behind it. Under Hitler, their economy turned around and they started feeling proud to be German again. Lots of people in the world were followers because of his charisma and message. There was a Nazi party in the US until the warn. They did marches in Irvington NJ. This image is from Long Island, NY in the 1930s:

View attachment 337563


They missed the evil behind it and the bigotry with it.

I already know all of this. And none of this excuses anything the Nazis did; but it does show that the Germans in the 1930s were wide open to the cultural relativism and nationalism with which Hitler swooned them (but not all them), getting them to offer their compliance and complicity with his political motives.