An attempt to eliminate God.

[Steeno7]

But Christ made it a point of instruction to the disciples that "Just Believing" is not enough, because even demons "just believe."

Nonsense. Just stop it. Jesus said no such thing. Demons believe, just as the Jews do, that God is One. That's all. Demons do not believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, nor can they, nor do they even have that option.

 

[CryOfALion]

If we are going to determine who is a stand up Christian and who isn't, including ourselves, based on behavior, then who among us will be left standing when we are done?

But, it isn't based on behavior judged by us, it is something going Christ Himself told us to do several different ways - by standards He Himself said, and His disciples supplemented in various letters.

 

[listed]

1) I think the thread had exchanged enough to realize that some of us think following God's law is necessary as a part of faith and showing love (and not to gain salvation). I am more or less beyond that.

I really - perhaps to accent the above point - want to know how people 2) know for sure they aren't Hebrews, and 3) why one thinks only Hebrews are responsible for following the law, and 4) why believers hoping to gain the same "prize," who aren't Hebrew are excluded from 3) when the Hebrews have to follow the law (again, not for gaining salvation, but for general obedience.)

Make a thread about it in GT. Such a discussion would be off topic here.

 

[Steeno7]

But, it isn't based on behavior judged by us, it is something going Christ Himself told us to do several different ways - by standards He Himself said, and His disciples supplemented in various letters.

Another one who missed the cross, no doubt. Jesus said a lot of things, including cut out your eye if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, and cut off your hand if you steal. Still have both of your eyes and both of your hands?

 

[CryOfALion]

Nonsense. Just stop it. Jesus said no such thing. Demons believe, just as the Jews do, that God is One. That's all. Demons do not believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, nor can they, nor do they even have that option.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

James 2:19-22

This sounds like much more than simple belief.

What it really sounds like is the majority of people on this thread are arguing two sides of the same coin, and some don't realize it.

What exactly are the works that we must do to work with faith, and vice versa? Abraham getting ready to offer Isaac as a sacrifice was a command of God, up until He said, "Stop... here is ram instead."

So, it IS more than simple belief in one God. Clearly there is a "doing" expectation" from us.

 

[listed]

In a way, it would be more sensible and justifiable if Hebrews only had to follow the law in order to gain salvation. But I am seriously confused as to why a Hebrew would have to 1) follow the law and 2) have faith in Christ, when Christians who aren't Hebrews allegedly do not have to follow the Law at all, and both get the same reward with the commonality of faith in Christ.

You forget about promises made exclusively to them. You also forget about the change of or ignore covenants.

 

[CryOfALion]

If we are going to determine who is a stand up Christian and who isn't, including ourselves, based on behavior, then who among us will be left standing when we are done?

But, Christ gave us the standard to be able to be judged by a righteous Judge, and still stand.

 

[Steeno7]

James 2:19-22

This sounds like much more than simple belief.

What it really sounds like is the majority of people on this thread are arguing two sides of the same coin, and some don't realize it.

What exactly are the works that we must do to work with faith, and vice versa? Abraham getting ready to offer Isaac as a sacrifice was a command of God, up until He said, "Stop... here is ram instead."

So, it IS more than simple belief in one God. Clearly there is a "doing" expectation" from us.

You missed it entirely.

 

[listed]

But Christ made it a point of instruction to the disciples that "Just Believing" is not enough, because even demons "just believe."

Redemption is not offered to them.

 

[Steeno7]

But, Christ gave us the standard to be able to be judged by a righteous Judge, and still stand.

Ummmmm, no. God gave us Jesus Christ so that "we" could escape His judgement.

 

[CryOfALion]

Yes and your version includes obligation to the law which Jesus did not bring or teach according to the Gospel of John.

Certainly not obligation to the law for the purposes of salvation. Out of all the exam at ions I have seen on here, supporters of footing the law have never seemed to insinuate following the Law was a matter of salvation at all. Quite the contrary, in fact, under some circumstances.

I have explicitly said that following the law is about obedience, not salvation. So, it would be disingenuous to continue to accuse me of saying I think someone must follow the Law to be saved, for example.

 

[CryOfALion]

You forget about promises made exclusively to them. You also forget about the change of or ignore covenants.

No, which is why I asked how one would know they are a Hebrew or not definitively, and why I asked why Hebrews would have to follow the law, and gentiles don't - yet both receive the same "reward."

 

[CryOfALion]

You missed it entirely.

The verses seem pretty clear.

 

[CryOfALion]

Ummmmm, no. God gave us Jesus Christ so that "we" could escape His judgement.

So the literal living Word of God AKA Christ did not give us the standard to be judged by a righteous Judge, and still stand?

 

[CryOfALion]

Make a thread about it in GT. Such a discussion would be off topic here.

Well if the odds of discussion are 3:1, I may as well just get some clarity here until I can't take it anymore. No need to compound complexity in discussion.

 

[Steeno7]

So the literal living Word of God AKA Christ did not give us the standard to be judged by a righteous Judge, and still stand?

He gave us Himself. Do you truly need this explained to you?

 

[listed]

But, it isn't based on behavior judged by us, it is something going Christ Himself told us to do several different ways - by standards He Himself said, and His disciples supplemented in various letters.

I bet you believe what your church teaches over the Scripture. Your church teaches Jesus came to show it was indeed possible to obey the law perfectly instead of Jesus is our Redeemer. This remains a constant with every SDA individual I have ever talked with. Another alarming thing your church teaches is Jesus is just another prophet with Heb 1. We simply do not have the same Jesus.

 

[CryOfALion]

Another one who missed the cross, no doubt. Jesus said a lot of things, including cut out your eye if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, and cut off your hand if you steal. Still have both of your eyes and both of your hands?

Only because I don't like pain. I have certainly understood His comments may need to be taken literally despite the fact that the context was metaphorical, and symbolic (not literal.) That is clear to see, and it would be less than honest to suggest Christ meant to convey someone literally cut their arm off if it offends them. We should know He meant to purge one's self - to cut off the things that lead to the offense.

Yet, and still, people do "cut" themselves for reason of righteousness. I have thought about chemical castration, and vasectomy myself.

And, the follow up would be if owing the Law is not necessary, why would Christ make such a statement anyway - to be taken metaphorically or literally? Why is that law to be followed over others - pertaining to sin? How is sin defined if God's Laws are not accounted for?

 

[CryOfALion]

He gave us Himself. Do you truly need this explained to you?

Is that all He did?

 

[Steeno7]

Is that all He did?

You better stop while your behind.