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Alleged indeed. How does one prove such a thing?
That sounds more like a scientific experiment than an act of faithBy faith...
...meaning: live as though it were true and find out for yourself whether or not it actually is.
Then one wonders why you would even bother to post in this thread. Pearls before swine, and all that.INSpiritInTruth wrote the above. And he is right. You are blind therefore you can not see the truth. In Isaiah 6, theHebrews turned away from God. So God said to them- You hear but you don't understand, You see but you do not understand. But those verses you would not understand because you are blinded. Therefore it is futile to try to discuss with you.
That sounds more like a scientific experiment than an act of faith. What would you expect to happen, if someone lived as though it were true? What changes occur such that we would then be able to identify its truth?
That doesn't answer my question.What changes occur that we would then be able to identify its truth? Simple, read God's word and pray for guidance.
It is, in a sense. I wouldn't encourage anyone to "become a Christian" unless they had some real experiences that led them to faith. The significance of the use of the word "faith" here is to communicate that relationship with God (if that's what Christianity actually is) is a relationship of faith. Because it's a real relationship with a real person and not simply a list of truths that we affirm trust and dependence are required. What may start out as experimenting eventually begins to feel like faith (active, dependent trust).That sounds more like a scientific experiment than an act of faith.
What would you expect to happen, if someone lived as though it were true? What changes occur such that we would then be able to identify its truth?
So those who don't believe in God because he hasn't deigned to reveal himself to them, can't be held to blame for their non belief. What, then, do we make of Hell?
Indeed. But, other Christians here mentioned that one can only know God if he deigns to reveal himself - if a person cannot convert until God says otherwise, why not simply live our lives as best we can until God makes a move?It is, in a sense. I wouldn't encourage anyone to "become a Christian" unless they had some real experiences that led them to faith. The significance of the use of the word "faith" here is to communicate that relationship with God (if that's what Christianity actually is) is a relationship of faith. Because it's a real relationship with a real person and not simply a list of truths that we affirm trust and dependence are required. What may start out as experimenting eventually begins to feel like faith (active, dependent trust).
But there is a great amount of room in the Christian life for experimentation. The scriptures implore us to "taste and see that the Lord is good." Sounds like an experiment to me.
It does, thank youThis is hard to answer normatively. I can try to give a brief list of things that wouldn't surprise me if they happened:
1) Since the journey of faith is lived with the community of faith, you might begin to experience a sense of community that is qualitatively different than you have before. Namely, you might observe people being brutally honest about who they really are. You might experience those same people being understood and embraced by the community. Then you might experience those same people slowly changing in character to more resemble the character of Jesus.
2) You might begin to see the world differently. This is something that will come naturally and not something you find yourself forcing yourself to think. You might begin to "see God" where you hadn't before. It's like picking up a sixth sense. Imagine a blind person receiving sight. How can they explain how the world has changed for them? This sixth sense is the ability to sense spiritual reality and we call it "faith".
3) Your desires might begin to change. You might begin to hunger for things that you've never hungered for before. You might begin to dislike things you used to love or put up with.
4) The Bible might start coming alive for you. It may begin to read completely differently for you than it ever has before. It's the same words, but all the sudden the reality they're describing seems real and immediate.
I could list others, but these are a few evidences that I've experienced of what Christians would call "spiritual life".
Hope that helps.
That doesn't answer my question.
Then I, the atheist, am among those who God knows won't be saved.It is not the Lord's desire that any should perish, but that all men would come to repentance.
But the sad truth is very few will come to repentance, and if not for God's mercy none would even be saved. But God knows before hand who will repent, and who will believe on Him when called, and by that foreknowledge God also knows those whom He has chosen to reveal Himself to.
No, it doesn't answer my question because it had no connection.It doesn't answer your question because you do not have the means to discern.
Perhaps, but unless your words will magically change, the point stands. Tomato isn't the answer, and never will be the answer. It's not a matter of interpretation.You see when you accept Jesus as your saviour the Holy Spirit resides in you and he brings about understanding about God's word.
He is welcome to reveal himself to me. I'm a scientist, I go where the evidence takes me, wherever that might be.That is foreign to you because you reject God.
Then I, the atheist, am among those who God knows won't be saved.
So what's to stop me from going on a rampage, now that I am confident in the knowledge that I am hell-bound, regardless of what I do?
Then I, the atheist, am among those who God knows won't be saved.
So what's to stop me from going on a rampage, now that I am confident in the knowledge that I am hell-bound, regardless of what I do?
Indeed. But, other Christians here mentioned that one can only know God if he deigns to reveal himself - if a person cannot convert until God says otherwise, why not simply live our lives as best we can until God makes a move?
GoodIt does, thank you
No, it doesn't answer my question because it had no connection.
Q: "What is 1 + 1?"
A: "Tomato"
It's not my inability to understand, it's the irrelevance of your answer.
Perhaps, but unless your words will magically change, the point stands. Tomato isn't the answer, and never will be the answer. It's not a matter of interpretation.
He is welcome to reveal himself to me. I'm a scientist, I go where the evidence takes me, wherever that might be.
Then one wonders why you would even bother to post in this thread. Pearls before swine, and all that.
In any case, your condescension and patronisation has been noted. Be thankful your fellow Christians aren't so snide.
Then I, the atheist, am among those who God knows won't be saved.
So what's to stop me from going on a rampage, now that I am confident in the knowledge that I am hell-bound, regardless of what I do?
The existance of an invisible God is easy for those whom the Lord has revealed Himself to by way of His Holy Spirit and the revelation of His Son in us. But those who are born of this world cannot receive Him because they cannot see Him, therefore by reason of blindness they do not believe. But we who are born of God do see Him, and also know Him, and also confess that His Word is True.
It doesn't answer your question because you do not have the means to discern. You see when you accept Jesus as your saviour the Holy Spirit resides in you and he brings about understanding about God's word. That is foreign to you because you reject God.
You do not know and we do not know what God knows about who will be saved. You are only hell-bound if you choose to be. Right now you claim to be an atheist, there is nothing stopping you from getting on your knees and dumping your pride and disbelief and asking God to come in to your life.
It's more like this. I wanted to photograph mountain lions in their natural habitat. I could not see them in their natural habitat unless I sought out their natural habitat, so I inquired about joining a hunting party so as I could record the beasts with my camera. Even then, I might not ever see one unless the lion moved to reveal it's location to me and others. But I knew for sure I would never see one if I did not move to a position to see one.Indeed. But, other Christians here mentioned that one can only know God if he deigns to reveal himself - if a person cannot convert until God says otherwise, why not simply live our lives as best we can until God makes a move?
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