An appeal to fundamentalists

[Jet_A_Jockey]

First off, I want to say that I am thrilled to see the defense of christian values and ideals at work within these forums.

My appeal is to fundamentalists, who in most ways I am like-minded and agree with. I want each and every one of you, who defend our faith, to please remember our place. While we may often be on the front lines of our battle for Christ, we have to remember our place in that battle.

We are called to witness for Christ, right? I can sum that up in 2 different statements.

1. We are to be a witness to the truth of the gospel, and the truth of scripture. In doing so we may have to defend it.

2. As witnesses, we not only outwardly witness for Christ, we are also to emulate and radiate Him in our works.

That being said, we should all be persistent in re-evaluating how we handle these situations, as we must hold fast to the truth, yet still radiate compassion and love for everyone, regardless of how misguided or against Christ we think they are.

The reason being? Because we are not put here to judge. If we condemn someone in our hearts, it is the same as if we threw the rocks ourselves. Therefore we should be very careful not to let ourselves get carried away while we are defending the truth. God is the one who deals with rejection of His word, we are just to preach, teach, and live it.


Here's a scenario:

You are volunteering at a hospital. The first thing you do is go over your list of duties for the day, and it merely says: Visit with patients in room 1 and room 2. So you're on your way, you enter room 1. You see a sickly man lying there, and he is dying of AIDS. He tells you that he misses his wife, and that he'd do anything to play with his children one last time. How would you treat this man?


Moving on, you go to the next room, #2. You see a sickly man lying in bed, dying of AIDS. He tells you that he's been misunderstood and rejected his entire life, because of his sexuality, and that he'd do anything just to be happy one last time.
How would you treat this man?

As a Christian, the answers to both should be exactly the same. With compassion and love. The truth of God brings enough of its own condemnation, it does not need our help in doing so. We are here to love each other, and even if I have to write a sticky note to stick to each and every one of our foreheads, I will make sure that we all understand it.

 

[BreadAlone]

 

[Floatingaxe]

Very good, Jet! But you don't have to take it upon yourself to make sure we all understand it.

We have compassion galore in those situations, but when Jesus Christ is being flamed by those who claim to love Him, well, that gets my blood boiling on His behalf. He helps me, but I know He loves me and is proud of me in the way I proclaim His truth.

 

[Criada]

God bless you, Jet.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Very good, Jet! But you don't have to take it upon yourself to make sure we all understand it.

Hello axe,
I'm compelled to, because I think it's beneficial to everyone involved in the discussion, and also because its needed.

We have compassion galore in those situations, but when Jesus Christ is being flamed by those who claim to love Him, well, that gets my blood boiling on His behalf. He helps me, but I know He loves me and is proud of me in the way I proclaim His truth.

I can relate to your position 100%, and I know exactly what you mean. If you can explain to me, using scripture, that we are to go beyond witnessing, into retaliatory action, then I will concede my effort

 

[lincolngreen50]

The reason being? Because we are not put here to judge. If we condemn someone in our hearts, it is the same as if we threw the rocks ourselves. Therefore we should be very careful not to let ourselves get carried away while we are defending the truth. God is the one who deals with rejection of His word, we are just to preach, teach, and live it.

As a Christian, the answers to both should be exactly the same. With compassion and love. The truth of God brings enough of its own condemnation, it does not need our help in doing so. We are here to love each other, and even if I have to write a sticky note to stick to each and every one of our foreheads, I will make sure that we all understand it.

Great post Jet

 

[Floatingaxe]

H[/color][/size][/font][/b]ello axe,
I'm compelled to, because I think it's beneficial to everyone involved in the discussion, and also because its needed.


I can relate to your position 100%, and I know exactly what you mean. If you can explain to me, using scripture, that we are to go beyond witnessing, into retaliatory action, then I will concede my effort

Acts 18:28
He got into fierce arguments with the Jewish people, and in public he used the Scriptures to prove that Jesus is the Messiah.



When we don our spiritual armor, the only offensive weapon is the Sword of the Spirit. We need to know and use it to cut down all hellish arguments--and we need to do it rapid-fire.

Retaliation? No! Vigorous defense? YES! And a deadly offense!

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Acts 18:28
He got into fierce arguments with the Jewish people, and in public he used the Scriptures to prove that Jesus is the Messiah.



When we don our spiritual armor, the only offensive weapon is the Sword of the Spirit. We need to know and use it to cut down all hellish arguments--and we need to do it rapid-fire.

Retaliation? No! Vigorous defense? YES! And a deadly offense!

You are correct that we are to defend Christ. I was just pointing out that we often fall over the line of defense into personal attacks and condemnatory statements. It's not our job to condemn, the word of God does it perfectly well on its own, and we need not intercede for it. Let your enemies be the accusers, we are to remain without a stain.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

btw gandalf the white is awesome, and ironically, if i recall correctly, sir ian mckellen is a professing homosexual.

lotr best trilogy ever.

 

[Floatingaxe]

You are correct that we are to defend Christ. I was just pointing out that we often fall over the line of defense into personal attacks and condemnatory statements. It's not our job to condemn, the word of God does it perfectly well on its own, and we need not intercede for it. Let your enemies be the accusers, we are to remain without a stain.

brother!

 

[Floatingaxe]

btw gandalf the white is awesome, and ironically, if i recall correctly, sir ian mckellen is a professing homosexual.

lotr best trilogy ever.

Oh no...is that from LOTR?

Well, it conveys what I believe we are: soldiers in battle, swords lifted high, charging the enemy.

 

[Leah]

First off, I want to say that I am thrilled to see the defense of christian values and ideals at work within these forums.

My appeal is to fundamentalists, who in most ways I am like-minded and agree with. I want each and every one of you, who defend our faith, to please remember our place. While we may often be on the front lines of our battle for Christ, we have to remember our place in that battle.

We are called to witness for Christ, right? I can sum that up in 2 different statements.

1. We are to be a witness to the truth of the gospel, and the truth of scripture. In doing so we may have to defend it.

2. As witnesses, we not only outwardly witness for Christ, we are also to emulate and radiate Him in our works.

That being said, we should all be persistent in re-evaluating how we handle these situations, as we must hold fast to the truth, yet still radiate compassion and love for everyone, regardless of how misguided or against Christ we think they are.

The reason being? Because we are not put here to judge. If we condemn someone in our hearts, it is the same as if we threw the rocks ourselves. Therefore we should be very careful not to let ourselves get carried away while we are defending the truth. God is the one who deals with rejection of His word, we are just to preach, teach, and live it.


Here's a scenario:

You are volunteering at a hospital. The first thing you do is go over your list of duties for the day, and it merely says: Visit with patients in room 1 and room 2. So you're on your way, you enter room 1. You see a sickly man lying there, and he is dying of AIDS. He tells you that he misses his wife, and that he'd do anything to play with his children one last time. How would you treat this man?


Moving on, you go to the next room, #2. You see a sickly man lying in bed, dying of AIDS. He tells you that he's been misunderstood and rejected his entire life, because of his sexuality, and that he'd do anything just to be happy one last time.
How would you treat this man?

As a Christian, the answers to both should be exactly the same. With compassion and love. The truth of God brings enough of its own condemnation, it does not need our help in doing so. We are here to love each other, and even if I have to write a sticky note to stick to each and every one of our foreheads, I will make sure that we all understand it.

I couldn't agree more.

You know what, this is something that God is teaching and pressing upon me as well. I posted a thread entitled "Now I Get It (Part II)" and it deals with this very thing.

Right now, God is letting me know that I need to be gentle when dealing with people. There's nothing wrong with defending the truth, but one can still be gentle about it.

Our approach MATTERS.

 

[Leah]

You are correct that we are to defend Christ. I was just pointing out that we often fall over the line of defense into personal attacks and condemnatory statements. It's not our job to condemn, the word of God does it perfectly well on its own, and we need not intercede for it. Let your enemies be the accusers, we are to remain without a stain.

Yes.

Sometimes, the smartest and more beneficial remark is silence. Then go on about the Father's business.

 

[OllieFranz]

Oh no...is that from LOTR?

Well, it conveys what I believe we are: soldiers in battle, swords lifted high, charging the enemy.

Just out of curiosity, why "oh no..."?

J.R.R. Tolkein, author of LOTR was not only one of C.S. Lewis' best friends, but it was that friendship (along with some influence by one or two other Christian friends who were not as close) that resulted in Lewis' conversion.

Tolkein and Lewis stayed up late one night having a conversation about the great themes of mythology, especially as the hero's sacrifice. Lewis said that he was always moved by those themes but that was exactly why he couldn't accept Christianity -- because he could see the same themes in other mythologies.

Tolkein agreed that the themes were the same. Because that is what God set in our souls to respond to. (Someone else whose name I can't remember called it a God-shaped hole in our souls waiting to be filled by the Holy Spirit). But in the case of Christianity, it was also historically true.

The next morning while riding a mostly empty bus past the London zoo, Lewis became a Christian. Tolkein, on the other hand spent the day writng much of what he remembered from the conversation. That essay and a previously written short story which sort of connects to it were published together as Tree and Leaf.

 

[BreadAlone]

Wait wait wait..who said anything about defending Christ!? As if God needs some puny humans to defend him!

Like you said originally, Jet, God just wants us to tell others about him, and after that, not to throw our pearls to the pigs, lest we be torn to pieces by the wild dogs.

Now people who claim to be brethren but live in immorality, those are the types we need to rebuke, and if they persist, excomminicate.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Just out of curiosity, why "oh no..."?

I just didn't want my posted image to convey anything mystic. I want the message to come across.

 

[Criada]

Yes.

Sometimes, the smartest and more beneficial remark is silence. Then go on about the Father's business.

Amen.

 

[savedandhappy1]

[staff edit]
As we see in Romans 13, 2 Cor. 6, love and armour do go together and are not unChristlike.

Romans 13:8-14
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

2 Cor. 6:1-10
1.We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
2 For He says:

“ In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you.”

Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
3 We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed.
4 But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses,
5 in stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in fastings;
6 by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love,
7 by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 by honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report; as deceivers, and yet true;
9 as unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold we live; as chastened, and yet not killed;
10 as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

We see in 2 Cor. 10 that we are at war, and that we are to cast down arguments and all things that are against the knowledge of God.


2 Cor. 10:1-6
1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you.
2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Eph. 6:10-20
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—
19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Now about using the word 'Sword".

Matt. 10:34-39
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’;
36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’
37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Heb 4:11-13
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Weapons and cast down are also seen in the passages above, but you are right on retaliation, that is God's. As we see in the scriptures that tell us that vengence is His. Those are found in Dt. 32:35, Psalms 94:1, 99:8, Isa. 34:8, 61:2, Jer. 50:15, Ezek. 24 7 25, Nah. 1:2, 2 Thess. 1:8, Heb. 10:30, and Jude 7.

So maybe we should start a thread about false witnessing, it could be interesting, because some of us learned those words from the teachings of God's Word. Alot of them are found in the very sections that also speak of love, and how to be Christlike.

I keep saying it but no one wants to go there for some reason, but again maybe we should define what is meant by loving your neighbor. According to the Bibles definition that is. There are 3 kinds of love taught in the Bible, and that is what I would think we would place our eyes on.

Love isn't silent when a person/ brother or sister in Christ, if they are traveling a sinful path. Or at least according to the Bible we aren't suppose to be.

Love isn't silent in showing a person why Christ came to die for us or why we need salvation. Or at least not silent according to the Bible.

So again, I point out that it seems our definitions of the word love, and what Christ meant when He said love your neighbor as yourself, seems to be the main problem.

I hope and pray that my brothers and sisters in Christ would love me enough to try to turn me around if I am going off the straight and narrow path, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

stuff you said.

Please refrain from making personal attacks within my thread. This thread was not directed at any person in particular, and was a call to everyone holding a fundamentalist position. Thanks.

 

[Phinehas2]

I agree.