An Alternative Explanation for Seals 3 and 4 from Revelation

Matt5

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Summary
This alternative explanation for seals 3 and 4 is based on the idea that all seals must open with a shock. This forces a rethink on many of the interpretations. It also leads to the result that seals 3 and 4 are connected, and seals 5 and 6 are connected. Connected means one seal causes the other to open due to retaliation.

The end result is that the third seal is the nuclear obliteration of Israel's neighbors by Israel. This subsequently causes Russia and China to retaliate against America by the next spring in fourth seal.

Note: I'm not saying I'm right. I'm saying that this is one possible interpretation.

The Interpretation
Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

You can hear the seals open like a big, loud crack of thunder. And you can see them open, "Come and see." These are big, loud shocks that everyone can see.

My interpretation of seals 1 to 4 from Revelation:

1. - Aug, 1945 America drops the atomic bomb (the bang) on Japan. The "Atomic Age" begins. End-time begins.
2. - 9/11/2001 (the bang) and the sword of Islam. Islam is behind seals 2 to 7.
3. - Isaiah 17. Israeli nukes dropping (the bang) on Syria. Iran is behind the attack on Israel.
4. - Isaiah 18. America obliterated (the bang). In retaliation for #3, Russia and China attack America.

Notice that seal 3 and seal 4 are near. Look for seal 3 to open and know that seal 4 is coming within a year.

What is a seal?

The seals are a series of shocks that occur all along the entire end-time period - about 100 years. This definition is based on the "helpful" requirement below. The seals in Revelation are suppose to be helpful:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

I have set up some global constraints on all the seals in order to comply with the "helpful" requirement.

Global constraints:

1. They must help us..
2. We must see the seals open - they open with a bang.
3. The seals are shocks that open all along the end-time period because "the time is near."

Some important ideas to keep in mind:

1. The shocks are all nuclear, except the second seal.
2. Islam is behind all the seals, except the first seal.
3. Iran is a key player behind most of the seals: 3, 4, 5 and 6.
4. Seal 3 causes seal 4 to open.

If we assume that indeed the seals open all along the end-time, then two seals become pretty obvious: 2 and 4. The sword of Islam is associated with 9/11 and fits the second seal. A great war involving America, Russia and China would take out about a quarter of the planet and fits the fourth seal. But what about 1 and 3?

If the 4th seal does involve America, then it could provide a clue about the 1st seal: The death of a white horse or person gives us a pale horse or person. If the 4th seal is about the death of America (the pale horse) then that means the white horse in the 1st seal is America. When we go looking for a bang, we look for a nuclear one: Aug, 1945.

Seal 3 (Isaiah 17)

Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Notice the "Come and see." We can see it open. The "open with a bang" requirement must mean the balances are for judgment, not for weighing. There is a judgment and then bang. But what about the wheat and barley? And what about the oil and the wine?

Understanding wheat and barley:

Exodus 9:31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled.

Exodus 9:32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up.

In Exodus, there is a judgment on Egypt because of its treatment of Jews. In the judgment the wheat survived but the barley was destroyed.

Concerning the third seal, in return for what you have paid out (the penny), you will get: one portion of wheat (life) and three portions of barley (death). Total portions are four. 1/4 will live and 3/4 will die. Oil (olive oil) and wine probably refer to Israel. Those who try to harm Israel are its neighbors. Iran is sitting in the background driving an attack on Israel. Israel's neighbors get destroyed as return payment.

Third Seal: You have been judged. 3/4ths of you will be destroyed. 1/4 will survive. Do not harm Israel.

The third seal causes the fourth seal to open. However, there will be a delay. Isaiah 18 says the fourth seal opens the following spring.

The third seal appears to be close:

[14-Jun-2019] 'Next war will be worst in Israel's history' | Arutz Sheva

Seal 4 (Isaiah 18)

Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The fourth seal appears to be a big war but the specifics could be almost anything. If it's going to be soon and take out a big chunk of the planet, then it almost certainly involves America, Russia and China. The global constraints are driving this interpretation.

"Come and see." We can see it open. It's a big shock involving a large nuclear war that takes out one-fourth of the planet. China and America must be involved. What about Russia?

According to the Russian nuclear doctrine, if an ally (Syria) is nuked then Russia can nuke back. Targeting Israel would just invite American nuclear retaliation. Russia must go after America.

Given that China and Russia are allies, Russia would certainly be involved in this war. Note that both Russia and China would not be completely destroyed by this war. They would still retain several hundred nukes. America would be destroyed with maybe a few percent of the population surviving.

If you're paying close attention then you can see World War III approaching:

[April 15, 2019] US-Russia relations are getting worse, and that's raising concerns about stumbling into a nuclear war | Business Insider
[June 7, 2019] The US just quietly challenged China on something Beijing promised to go to war over | Business Insider
[Dec 14, 2018] China and Russia: A Strategic Alliance in the Making | National Interest
 

keras

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If you're paying close attention then you can see World War III approaching:
Right, but the Lord will have His say; Ezekiel 7:14 They have blown the trumpet and made ready, [for war] but no one goes to war, as their turmoil has brought forth the wrath of God. Psalms 11:4-6

Re the Seals, from all the terrible wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters that the world has experienced since the 1st century, we can be sure those Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension.
Proved by how all the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven. Revelation 6:9-11 We await the Sixth Seal to change the world and set the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
 
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Matt5

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Proved by how all the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven. Revelation 6:9-11 We await the Sixth Seal to change the world and set the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

But we have to live that long.

The 6th seal looks a lot like nuclear war. I noticed that almost nobody is interested in surviving things like nuclear war.
 
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keras

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But we have to live that long.

The 6th seal looks a lot like nuclear war. I noticed that almost nobody is interested in surviving things like nuclear war.
The Bible prophets say there will be no war because the Lord will arise and wipe them out. Psalms 83
It will be the Lord's Day of fiery wrath; an explosion of the suns surface, as prophesied by Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1, + 100 other prophesies that graphically describe that terrible Day.
Those cosmic events prophesied simply do not happen in an nuke war.
 
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claninja

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Take a look at this article from today:

[19-Jun-2019] Iran could target Israel to escalate tensions with US - report | The Times of Israel

Iran could target Israel to escalate tensions with US – report

This could potentially be big.

The 6th seal of revelation contains a quote from hosea 10:8.
Revelation 6:16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

The original context of that quote is the destruction of Israel
Hosea 10:8 The high places of Aven, the sin of Israel, will be destroyed; thorns and thistles
will grow over their altars. Then they will say to the mountains, “Cover us!” and to the hills, “Fall on us!”

Jesus quotes from hosea 10:8 in regards to the destruction of Jerusalem
Luke 23:27-29 A great number of people followed Him, including women who kept mourning and wailing for Him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”

the seals of revelation line up nicely with the olivet discourse, which is about the destruction of Jerusalem

Seal 1: white horse: "some interpret this as Christ riding to conquer and some as the antichrist"
Seal 2: war: revelation 6:3-4,Luke 21:10
Seal 3: famine: revelation 6:5-6, Luke 21:11
Seal 4: death: revelation 6:7-8, Luke 21:11,24
Seal 5: Martyrs: revelation 6:00-11, Luke 21:16-17
Seal 6: Terror, destruction, stars falling: revelation 6:12-17, Luke 21:20-28

Thus as revelation 6 is a vision using apocalyptic languge, I would argue the 6th seal is in regards to the great tribulation of Jerusalem as mentioned in the olivet discourse that took place in 70ad. This is substantiated by jesus quoting hosea 10:8 with regards to the destruction of his audience in Luke 23.
 
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Matt5

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the seals of revelation line up nicely with the olivet discourse, which is about the destruction of Jerusalem

Seal 1: white horse: "some interpret this as Christ riding to conquer and some as the antichrist"
Seal 2: war: revelation 6:3-4,Luke 21:10
Seal 3: famine: revelation 6:5-6, Luke 21:11
Seal 4: death: revelation 6:7-8, Luke 21:11,24
Seal 5: Martyrs: revelation 6:00-11, Luke 21:16-17
Seal 6: Terror, destruction, stars falling: revelation 6:12-17, Luke 21:20-28

Thus as revelation 6 is a vision using apocalyptic languge, I would argue the 6th seal is in regards to the great tribulation of Jerusalem as mentioned in the olivet discourse that took place in 70ad. This is substantiated by jesus quoting hosea 10:8 with regards to the destruction of his audience in Luke 23.

I've seen similar interpretations as yours about the seals in Revelation. They seem difficult to be helpful: Things happen, people die. Also, do they all open during the tribulation?
 
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claninja

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I've seen similar interpretations as yours about the seals in Revelation. They seem difficult to be helpful: Things happen, people die.

I would say using scripture to interpret scripture is the most helpful in understanding.

Also, do they all open during the tribulation?

I would argue that just as all the events of the olivet discourse do not occur during the tribulation of Jerusalem, not all the seals are required to occur during the tribulation.

using scripture to interpret scripture we can see that 6th seal is associated with the destruction of Jerusalem

Signs in the sky :

Revelation 6:12 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind

Luke 21:25 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars,

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky
, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

Calling on the mountains to fall on them and cover them:
Revelation 6:16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

Luke 23:27-29 A great number of people followed Him, including women who kept mourning and wailing for Him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’
 
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Matt5

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The Bible prophets say there will be no war because the Lord will arise and wipe them out. Psalms 83
It will be the Lord's Day of fiery wrath; an explosion of the suns surface, as prophesied by Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1, + 100 other prophesies that graphically describe that terrible Day.
Those cosmic events prophesied simply do not happen in an nuke war.

Is that during the tribulation?

86 Bible Verses about Day of the LORD - 86 Bible verses about Day Of The Lord

I'm thinking the Day of the Lord destruction comes many times.
 
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keras

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Is that during the tribulation?

86 Bible Verses about Day of the LORD - 86 Bible verses about Day Of The Lord

I'm thinking the Day of the Lord destruction comes many times.
No. The Sixth Seal will happen before the great Trib, which will occur during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.

The DoL has come before and will again. But the one that is extensively prophesied is at the Sixth Seal, which is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will change the world and set he scene for all the future events.
 
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Matt5

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‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’

Aren't people saying that now? There are too many people on the planet, so don't have children.

Just so I understand you properly, are you saying all these verses are about the same thing?

Revelation 6:12
Luke 21:25
Matthew 24:29
Revelation 6:16
Luke 23:27-29
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Matt5 said:
Is that during the tribulation?

86 Bible Verses about Day of the LORD - 86 Bible verses about Day Of The Lord

I'm thinking the Day of the Lord destruction comes many times.
No. The Sixth Seal will happen before the great Trib, which will occur during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.

The DoL has come before and will again
. But the one that is extensively prophesied is at the Sixth Seal, which is the next prophesied event we can expect. It will change the world and set he scene for all the future events.
The 1st century Day of the Lord did change the world, mainly for the Jews and the destruction of their Temple and City.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

"day of the lord"
occurs 26 times in 24 verses in the NKJV.

"day of the lord"
occurs 24 times in 22 verses in the NIV.

Zep 1:14
The great day of the LORD is near;
It is near and hastens quickly.
The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter;
There the mighty men shall cry out.

Mal 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

2Pe 3:12
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

There is no literal "1000yr period" after this event of Armageddon/Gog-Magog......

Rev 16:14
For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the land and of the whole being homed, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
==========================
Matthew 24:43 and Luke 12:39 are the same verses the Roman army coming as a thief in 70ad

Please visit my 1st century Jerusalem/Temple discourse thread......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread


Mat 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Luk 12:39
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and[fn] not allowed his house to be broken into.
Jhn 10:1
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Rev 3:3
“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
Rev 16:15
“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
 
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claninja

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Aren't people saying that now? There are too many people on the planet, so don't have children.

Let's stick with the context. In luke 23, Jesus references hosea 10:8 in regards to those saying blessed are the barren woman. The context of hosea 10:8 is the destruction of Israel. So we shouldn't apply this to every modern day scenario, but only the context: the destruction of Israel.

Hosea 10:8 The high places of Aven,d the sin of Israel, will be destroyed; thorns and thistles
will grow over their altars. Then they will say to the mountains, “Cover us!” and to the hills, “Fall on us!”

As we can see, Jesus states it will be miserable for pregnant and nursing mothers during the destruction of the Israel in the olivet discourse:

Luke 21:23 How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people

Again, Jesus makes a connection between the destruction of Jerusalem with the children being leveled to the ground.

Luke 19:41-44 As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

Just so I understand you properly, are you saying all these verses are about the same thing?

Revelation 6:12
Luke 21:25
Matthew 24:29
Revelation 6:16
Luke 23:27-29

Correct. Using scripture to interpret scripture, we can see that the 6th seal of revelation matches the olivet discourse

Signs in sun, moon, and stars :
Revelation 6:12 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind

Luke 21:25 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars,

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky
, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

Calling on the mountains to fall on them and cover them:
Revelation 6:16 And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

Luke 23:27-29 A great number of people followed Him, including women who kept mourning and wailing for Him. But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.’ At that time ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’

Luke 21:23 How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers. For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people
 
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claninja

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No. The Sixth Seal will happen before the great Trib,

That would be incorrect.

When the 6th seal opens, the sun goes black, the moon turns red, and the stars fall from the sky.


Revelation 6:12-13 And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

According to the olivet discourse, the sun is darkened, the moon doesn't give its light, and the stars fall from the sky "immediately after the tribulation", not 'before'.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
 
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Douggg

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Take a look at this article from today:

[19-Jun-2019] Iran could target Israel to escalate tensions with US - report | The Times of Israel

Iran could target Israel to escalate tensions with US – report

This could potentially be big.
Matt, I read your opening post, most of it.

The condensed form of the end times events is in Ezekiel 38-39.

Gog/Magog, then followed by the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, ending with Armageddon (Ezekiel 39:17-20) and Jesus's return (Ezekiel 39:21-29)

You can use that as an outine.

I. Gog/Magog
II. The seven years
III. Armageddon, Jesus's return

The seals which Jesus opened in John's presence, who wrote it all down, and gave to us - are about the seven years, following the Gog/Magog event.

When you go through Revelation, haven't you noticed the 42 months; the 1260 days; the time, times, half time ? All components of the seven years.

So using the outline (based on Ezekiel 38-39).

I. Gog/Magog (which includes Iran, as Persia in the text)
II. The seven years.
.....A. Seal 1
.....B. Seal 2
.....C. Seal 3
.....D. Seal 4
.....E. Seal 5
.....F. Seal 6
III. Armageddon, Jesus's return

Analyze the 7 years. Most of the first half is relatively peaceful, because the world will be thinking it has entered the messianic age, and will be saying "peace and safety". Before being caught off-guard by the beginning of the Day of the Lord. This in 1Thesslaonians5.

Then look at 2Thessalonians2:3-4. That passage indicates what triggers the Day of the Lord.

So it is going to be around the middle of the 7 years - when Seals 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 events take place. And the Day of the Lord begins, which also contains the great tribulation.

It is going to be partly due to war, partly due to starvation, partly due to disease and plagues, partly due to the animals not having food to eat; all associated with the reign of the beast, and in big part due to the judgments on the earth in the trumpets and bowls (vials) of God's wrath.
____________________________________________________________

A better way to understand the end times, is not by guessing a war schedule, but by putting together the path of the arch villain of the end times to his destruction.
 
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claninja

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and Jesus's return (Ezekiel 39:21-29)

Ezekiel 39:21-29 Is in regards to the Israel's return from Babylonian exile all the way to the sending of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in the first century. Ezekiel 39:21-29 is not in chronological order with Ezekiel 39:1-20. Ezekiel 39:21-29 takes place prior to Gog/Magog. We can substantiate this by using scripture to interpret scripture:

Ezekiel prophesies that God will restore the fortunes after their exile.
Ezekiel 39:25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy name

This prophecy is from a promise IN THE LAW: That after the curses had been poured out, God would restore their fortunes and bring them back into the land
Deuteronomy 30:1-5 And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. And the Lord your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it.

Daniel confirms the curses of the law had been poured out on Israel
Daniel 9:11-14 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. And the curse and oath that are written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him. He has confirmed his words, which he spoke against us and against our rulers who ruled us, by bringing upon us a great calamity. For under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what has been done against Jerusalem. As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this calamity has come upon us; yet we have not entreated the favor of the Lord our God, turning from our iniquities and gaining insight by your truth. Therefore the Lord has kept ready the calamity and has brought it upon us, for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works that he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice.

Jeremiah confirms the restoring of fortunes occur after the BABYLONIAN EXILE.
Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

The author of Psalm 85 confirms the restoring of fortunes after the BABYLONIAN EXILE.
Psalm 85:1 Lord, you were favorable to your land; you restored the fortunes of Jacob.

Ezra and 1 Chronicles confirm that Israel returned to the land after the Babylonian exile
Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem
1 chronicles 9:1-3 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem.



Ezekiel 39:29 ends with the pouring out of the spirit.
Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.”

This is confirmed to have occurred at Pentecost in the 1st century:

Acts 2:1-2 When the day of Pentecost came, the believers were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
 
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Matt5

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So it is going to be around the middle of the 7 years - when Seals 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 events take place. And the Day of the Lord begins, which also contains the great tribulation.

Isn't going to be hard to dodge this stuff if we're constantly getting hit with it?
 
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Douggg

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Ezekiel 39:21-29 Is in regards to the Israel's return from Babylonian exile all the way to the sending of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in the first century. Ezekiel 39:21-29 is not in chronological order with Ezekiel 39:1-20. Ezekiel 39:21-29 takes place prior to Gog/Magog. We can substantiate this by using scripture to interpret scripture:

Ezekiel prophesies that God will restore the fortunes after their exile.
Ezekiel 39:25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy namec

This prophecy is from a promise IN THE LAW: That after the curses had been poured out, God would restore their fortunes and bring them back into the land
Deuteronomy 30:1-5 And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you. And the Lord your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it.

Daniel confirms the curses of the law had been poured out on Israel
Daniel 9:11-14 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. And the curse and oath that are written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him. He has confirmed his words, which he spoke against us and against our rulers who ruled us, by bringing upon us a great calamity. For under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what has been done against Jerusalem. As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this calamity has come upon us; yet we have not entreated the favor of the Lord our God, turning from our iniquities and gaining insight by your truth. Therefore the Lord has kept ready the calamity and has brought it upon us, for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works that he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice.

Jeremiah confirms the restoring of fortunes occur after the BABYLONIAN EXILE.
Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

The author of Psalm 85 confirms the restoring of fortunes after the BABYLONIAN EXILE.
Psalm 85:1 Lord, you were favorable to your land; you restored the fortunes of Jacob.

Ezra and 1 Chronicles confirm that Israel returned to the land after the Babylonian exile
Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem
1 chronicles 9:1-3 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem.



Ezekiel 39:29 ends with the pouring out of the spirit.
Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.”

This is confirmed to have occurred at Pentecost in the 1st century:

Acts 2:1-2 When the day of Pentecost came, the believers were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
claninja, what you are indicating to me is that the doctrine that the church has become Israel is a failed doctrine, based on misinterpretation of multiple passages.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 matches Revelation 19:17-18, as well as Psalms 110:5-6, and you have no way to equate Ezekiel 39:17-20 with anything following the return from the Babylonian captivity, historically speaking.

Ezekiel 39:29 ends with the pouring out of the spirit.
Ezekiel 39:29 And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.”

This is confirmed to have occurred at Pentecost in the 1st century:
You are not reading Ezekiel 39. Verse 28....

39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

Do you see Jews in the nations, and like in your home town, still ?

Ezekiel 39:28 hasn't happened yet. And will not happen until the 7 years are complete.

It is 100% concrete without any chance of failure, that Gog/Magog will take place, then followed by the seven years, then ending with Armageddon at Jesus's return.
 
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