Amway, Alticor, Quixstar, Multi level marketing

[ScottBot]

I've seen a lot of MLM schemes come and go, and the essential problems with them do not seem to have been addressed.

There's been serious analysis with actual numbers, but somehow it always gets overlooked.

Amway distributors tout their business as "the best business opportunity in the world." Yet of the five million or so Americans whove been involved over its 40 year history, fewer than 1% have made a profit, and fewer than one-tenth of one percent have established the large incomes that they claim are achievable by all.


Ruth Carter has written a clear, concise account based on her 15 years of experience as a distributor and five years of insider information as the employee of a Diamond. The book attacks head-on the accusations of deception, cultism, and greed which are so often leveled at the Amway business. Here at last are the reasons why, clearly explained by a former insider.
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Now, of course, we could just declare that she's lying. And all the other ex-Amway people are lying, or incompetent, or malicious, or stupid. All of them.

Or, we could consider the possibility that the organization is about what it looks like, and compare its business model with dozens of other MLM schemes, and look at how these things work, and how they draw people in, and so on.

Can you make money at it? Sure. You can also make money running a "check-cashing" service which gouges its customers. There are lots of ways to make money.

Considering Amway/Quixtar has been in business since 1959 and has grown consistently every year, its a fair bet to say that they utilize legitimate and fair business practices. You need to not get confused with the pure marketing plan as presented by the corporation, and the occational unscrupulous people who deceive other people into getting involved by misrepresenting the marketing plan. To say that Amway/Quixtar is a pyramid or a gouging scheme is misrepresentation. It would be more accurate to say that they present an opportunity that in and of itself is fair and legitimate, but becomes corrupted by a certain percentage of distributors who put profitability above integrity.

 

[ScottBot]

So are you very successful in the Amway business?

Yes I am. I produce enough residual income at the moment to allow my wife to stay at home with my 3 kids. I aim to replace my job income and be a stay at home father in this new fiscal year.

 

[ohgin]

So is it true that you get paid less then what you are supposed to get?because from the book this is what I noticed and from that book it claimed that you cannot tell Amway that you are getting less because they will say that you are not loyal to the business. A lot of ppl also say that at some point , a person may actually make money from the tools. What is your catch on this?

 

[ScottBot]

So is it true that you get paid less then what you are supposed to get?because from the book this is what I noticed and from that book it claimed that you cannot tell Amway that you are getting less because they will say that you are not loyal to the business. A lot of ppl also say that at some point , a person may actually make money from the tools. What is your catch on this?

1. YOu cannot knowingly misrepresent your income for any reason.
2. Tools are an important part of the business, and yes, I am allowed a handling fee for facilitating the distribution of these tools. You think Wal-Mart doesn't charge you for shipping just because it isn't itemized on the pricetag of an item? The cost of distribution is built into the price of an item. We just itemize our charges to promote transparency.
3. "System" money is always significantly lower than any profits made by actually marketing products.

 

[ohgin]

So why are there so many articles that actually claims that a lot of the executive diamonds make most of their money from tools when they are not supposed to make even a single cent from them. So you do show your downlines that they have to pay extra money for delievery charge that is really good. But dun you think that the materials are a little expensive if those materials are not supposed to be non profitable? btw, how much is a tape and seminar functions in America?

 

[Egghead]

My ex brother in law, and an old friend at work were both scAMWAY pushers.

I gave it a chance in the mid 90s, took a look at it all, the way it operates, to see if Id be interested.

First thing I noticed was the product pricing was high end to heavily inflated.

Secondly, the only way for ME to make any money was to have a LOT of people under me in my ''pyramid'' who purchased quite a bit of product from thierselves each month.

You cant rely on salesmanship like in other businesses, you have to rely on those under you purchasing from themselves on the order of approx $200 a month. Every person, every month....or else you end up relying on infrequent sales that only profit you a couple of percent profit ($2-3 for taking an hour to sell a $100 pair of shoes)

In my old business, I set my own prices based on the average in my area.
I would make anywhere from $50 per hour to $150 per hour, depending on the particular JOB (singular).

On one job my material cost would be say $50.
The going rate for this job was about $250.
Id sell at about $160-170 for two hours it would take, making me about $50-55 an hour. That was the lowest amount I could make and it averaged about $90 an hour.

The downside was I had to own the equipment to do the work.
I had to actaully invest in something to make money for myself, thus a ''real'' business.

Even when I was selling gaming stuff I was making about 30% profit off each item when it was all said and done.

Looking at Amway of about 1996, I was lucky if I made $3 off a pair of $110 Nikes, leaving me to have to sell a LOT of Nikes to make any money at all.

If your not business minded, the Amway is a place to start, Id suppose, but youre much better off creating a business of your own.

I read a book on finance, cant remember the author or the title, but one thing that really stood out in my mind was when starting a business, the safest route is to do what we know. Start a business in some area that you are well versed in already. If not, learn every aspect of the business, every detail you can, before starting it.

if it sounds to good to be true, it surely is.

 

[ScottBot]

So why are there so many articles that actually claims that a lot of the executive diamonds make most of their money from tools when they are not supposed to make even a single cent from them. So you do show your downlines that they have to pay extra money for delievery charge that is really good. But dun you think that the materials are a little expensive if those materials are not supposed to be non profitable? btw, how much is a tape and seminar functions in America?

On of our weekend seminars costs $95.00 per ticket. Compare that to any professional convention, which can run upwards of $1,500-$2,000 per ticket, not including travel and lodging.

In response to your first point, in America, anyone is free to print anything they want regardless of the validity or truthfulness of the material, and the internet is even worse. Be careful of your sources.

 

[ohgin]

But sometimes dun you think that Amway undermines some of the most important things in life. Like family, job etc. I mean they actually encourages us to make Amway a priority over job, family time,prayer time and even resting time. I know that Amway may provide for the future but do not forget that God always ask us to build out foundation because they will be tested with fire and if they do not pass the test, everything that we build for will fall. I dun think that it only applies to our spiritual life but it actually applies to everything. Can you imagine when a fresh graduate just started working and his upline actually tells him to put more priority in the business as compared to his work? put more priority in the business as compared to family time? Treat God as a genie whose only purpose is to prosper his people mateiralistically? Not have enough time to rest and recharge his energy but always using free time to prospect new ppl. It is ridiculous when my upline actually tells me that the more prospect i do the more I will not think negatively? Do you know that currently I cannot even breate with the things that are pounding on me and my upline actually tells me that the more prospect that I do the more I will not think negatively? That is quite selfish rite? What if i lose my job? Will he care? He actually tells me to put more priority in my business then my job. So in future if I cannot provide for myself will he care? I think the business plan is good that is why I join without any hesitation. But when I think about it, some ppl get to carried away and they actually forget about the very most important things in life. This business has the potential to ruin a lot of relationships because everybody will be thinking that you are friending them because of money. We have forgotten something. When someone joins the business it is not only because of their dreams but it is also because they trust in you, they have a liking in you. But this business is so rigid. We are always told that ppl who have dreams will surely join. We forgotten that we are dealing with ppl who wants a relationship, who need trust. Is this worth it? Losing friends over a business? Actually why do we have work so hard? Dun we trust that God will provide for us? God will never ever let us go hungry? God wants us to rrest? God wants us to have relationship? God wants us to trust in Him to provide for our basic needs? God do not want us to focus on materialistic things? Frankly speaking, I am a little tired about this business and perhaps I will do it with my own pace and perhaps method because frankly speaking, if i prospect ppl with the method that I used now i most probably wun get anyone to join because I forgot to build a relationship with them. I am a bad testimony to them. Do you think ppl will take you seriously if u are not establish in the basic things in life? I have no desire to lose my friends over this business( fear of calling them up in the future). I do not want to be a zombie over this system but I want to have life for God. And my focus now is my spiritual life. I want to be a good testimony for God

 

[ScottBot]

But sometimes dun you think that Amway undermines some of the most important things in life. Like family, job etc. I mean they actually encourages us to make Amway a priority over job, family time,prayer time and even resting time. I know that Amway may provide for the future but do not forget that God always ask us to build out foundation because they will be tested with fire and if they do not pass the test, everything that we build for will fall. I dun think that it only applies to our spiritual life but it actually applies to everything. Can you imagine when a fresh graduate just started working and his upline actually tells him to put more priority in the business as compared to his work? put more priority in the business as compared to family time? Treat God as a genie whose only purpose is to prosper his people mateiralistically? Not have enough time to rest and recharge his energy but always using free time to prospect new ppl. It is ridiculous when my upline actually tells me that the more prospect i do the more I will not think negatively? Do you know that currently I cannot even breate with the things that are pounding on me and my upline actually tells me that the more prospect that I do the more I will not think negatively? That is quite selfish rite? What if i lose my job? Will he care? He actually tells me to put more priority in my business then my job. So in future if I cannot provide for myself will he care? I think the business plan is good that is why I join without any hesitation. But when I think about it, some ppl get to carried away and they actually forget about the very most important things in life. This business has the potential to ruin a lot of relationships because everybody will be thinking that you are friending them because of money. We have forgotten something. When someone joins the business it is not only because of their dreams but it is also because they trust in you, they have a liking in you. But this business is so rigid. We are always told that ppl who have dreams will surely join. We forgotten that we are dealing with ppl who wants a relationship, who need trust. Is this worth it? Losing friends over a business? Actually why do we have work so hard? Dun we trust that God will provide for us? God will never ever let us go hungry? God wants us to rrest? God wants us to have relationship? God wants us to trust in Him to provide for our basic needs? God do not want us to focus on materialistic things? Frankly speaking, I am a little tired about this business and perhaps I will do it with my own pace and perhaps method because frankly speaking, if i prospect ppl with the method that I used now i most probably wun get anyone to join because I forgot to build a relationship with them. I am a bad testimony to them. Do you think ppl will take you seriously if u are not establish in the basic things in life? I have no desire to lose my friends over this business( fear of calling them up in the future). I do not want to be a zombie over this system but I want to have life for God. And my focus now is my spiritual life. I want to be a good testimony for God

Every person that I know on a personal level is a fundamentally sound Christian. Some of them are Pastors and Ministers. All take their faith seriously. Additionally, we have a motto in our group about priorities: God, family, country, business. Our IBOships are never more important than our faith or our family. I don't know who sold you this lie, but in my group, it is fundamentally untrue.

 

[ohgin]

can I have your msn messanger ID? thx

 

[ScottBot]

can I have your msn messanger ID? thx

I'll PM it to you.

 

[ohgin]

Nobody sold me this lie. Perhaps it was my upline. He told me personally when i was in hard times to take this business more seriously then my job. When I was in the brink of insanity and told him that I did not feel like doing anything and that I needed rest he actually ask me did I spend my time with my family(I am staying by myself btw), did I spend time working? He told me that diamonds and successful ppl did not rest but kept on working all the way until they succeed. Yeah I know Amway claims that we need to get our priority rite but in actual practice it seems that the business is more important then those things. It is like something disguised to be good but inside is bad. Why do we always critisize ppl who "do not have dreams"? This is bad rite? I mean so what if they do not want to join the business?Mayby their focus in on other things. So what if they dun want to join. Does it means that everyone who join the business are saints and the rest are devils?

 

[ScottBot]

Nobody sold me this lie. Perhaps it was my upline. He told me personally when i was in hard times to take this business more seriously then my job. When I was in the brink of insanity and told him that I did not feel like doing anything and that I needed rest he actually ask me did I spend my time with my family(I am staying by myself btw), did I spend time working? He told me that diamonds and successful ppl did not rest but kept on working all the way until they succeed. Yeah I know Amway claims that we need to get our priority rite but in actual practice it seems that the business is more important then those things. It is like something disguised to be good but inside is bad. Why do we always critisize ppl who "do not have dreams"? This is bad rite? I mean so what if they do not want to join the business?Mayby their focus in on other things. So what if they dun want to join. Does it means that everyone who join the business are saints and the rest are devils?

What do you think doctor's do when they have sick patients who depend on them, but they themselves are burned out?

I am actually glad when I show someone the business and they don't want to be involved. I am only looking for people who are also looking. If I had to coerce someone into the business, they would be a distraction to me. I don't think that someone who declines to join my business in a bad way. Sometimes the timing isn't right in their lives, sometimes the business model isn't appealing to them. Not everyone who goes to college is cut out to be a doctor. My team is very specific in how we consider and select prospects. It is not a game of "throw mud up on the wall and see what sticks". I only want to be in business with people who want to be in business with me. We can develop a relationship that way.

Additionally, there is a big difference between a wish and a dream. A dream is something you are passionate about. Something you are willing to suffer for, something that makes you upset when you think about not having it. A wish is something that would be nice to have, but if I never have it it wouldn't bother me. Maybe you should take some time to clarify what your dreams are. It is entirely possible that you are working towards someone else's dream that you think is yours.

 

[guardianspirit]

I was in Quixtar back in 2001. My friend, Del got me into it. Because I was not stable (not working full-time, no car, etc.) and I wasn't very self-motivated, I didn't do very well in it. Like any job or business, if you don't apply yourself, you won't succeed. I met someone out here (I just moved from S.L.C., UT to Fairfax, VA) who is in Quixtar. I might re-join.

I'd like to address people's "pyramid scheme" comments. Technically almost every business in existence is a "pyramid scheme". There is one person at the top (President, C.E.O., Manager, etc.) who makes the most money and most of that is due to the work of the people "below" him in the pyramid. There are several levels of management. The higher levels make more money. There are "peons" on the bottom level that do a lot of work and make the least money. In a typical business, there is only room for 1 or a few people "on top". The only way to make as much money as that person (or those people) is to take their place. The only way you will be able to take this person's place is if he dies, quits, or gets fired.

In Quixtar, There is a similar structure. The difference is that if you get enough people "under" you, you then can become the "President". The person who was at the "top" when you joined will still be making a lot of money, but he doesn't have to lose his position in order for you to make a comparable amount of money. That is the difference between Quixtar and other businesses.

As far as the products go, a lot of the products are essentials such as toilet paper, soap, shampoo, & laundry detergent. They also sell a lot of food such as cereal, spaghetti, microwavable dinners, rice, soups, and canned vegetables. So it's not high-pressure sales. Your just asking people to buy the stuff from Quixtar instead of Wal-mart, Costco, Shopco, and the grocery store (you would obviously still need to buy dairy, meats, and produce from the grocery store).

As far as the corrupt people that made Amway/Quixtar look bad, there are corrupt people in every business. Saying that no one should join Quixtar because there are a few corrupt people in it is like saying that we shouldn't have police because there are a few bad cops.

 

[ScottBot]

I was in Quixtar back in 2001. My friend, Del got me into it. Because I was not stable (not working full-time, no car, etc.) and I wasn't very self-motivated, I didn't do very well in it. Like any job or business, if you don't apply yourself, you won't succeed. I met someone out here (I just moved from S.L.C., UT to Fairfax, VA) who is in Quixtar. I might re-join.

As far as the corrupt people that made Amway/Quixtar look bad, there are corrupt people in every business. Saying that no one should join Quixtar because there are a few corrupt people in it is like saying that we shouldn't have police because there are a few bad cops.

If you are moving to Fairfax VA, we will probably run into each other, as I live just a few minutes from Fairfax and most of my team is in Northern VA

 

[Egghead]

I'd like to address people's "pyramid scheme" comments. Technically almost every business in existence is a "pyramid scheme". There is one person at the top (President, C.E.O., Manager, etc.) who makes the most money and most of that is due to the work of the people "below" him in the pyramid.

This is as far from truth as it can get.

Ive owned my own business for years.
The people UNDER me were MY employees who make their money off of jobs we sell, with money that funnels thru my hands.

I did not make money off of those under me.
We sell a product to make a profit, they make hourly wages from these profits.

That is nothing like gathering up 300 people who buy product that I make a few percent from each sale.

My employees were not peons.

Most legitimate businesses do not work anything like these pyramid schemes.

 

[guardianspirit]

I'd like to address people's "pyramid scheme" comments. Technically almost every business in existence is a "pyramid scheme". There is one person at the top (President, C.E.O., Manager, etc.) who makes the most money and most of that is due to the work of the people "below" him in the pyramid.

This is as far from truth as it can get.

Ive owned my own business for years.
The people UNDER me were MY employees who make their money off of jobs we sell, with money that funnels thru my hands.

I did not make money off of those under me.
We sell a product to make a profit, they make hourly wages from these profits.

That is nothing like gathering up 300 people who buy product that I make a few percent from each sale.

My employees were not peons.

Most legitimate businesses do not work anything like these pyramid schemes.

So those people under you were making as much money as you were? I don't think so. They make hourly wages, which is the least amount that they can be replaced for, and because they are working for you, you make a lot of money. So you do make money off the work of those that are under you.

Also, as I pointed out, there is only room in your business for one person on top - you. In Quixtar, the people on the bottom level can earn a comparable amount to what the person "on top" makes by getting more people under them. Unlike a regular business, there isn't a lowest level of employees because any of the levels can get more people under them. I was using the term "peon" to represent the lowest level of employees in a regular business. It wasn't meant to be derogatory.

If you haven't been in this business or at least thoroughly checked it out, it would be better not to comment on something you don't know about.

 

[Egghead]

So those people under you were making as much money as you were? I don't think so. They make hourly wages, which is the least amount that they can be replaced for, and because they are working for you, you make a lot of money. So you do make money off the work of those that are under you.

They were making what they agreed to be paid.
Which was more than youd think, plus they made commission off every job whether they sold or produced it.
More incentive to get the job done right the first time

A far cry from ''hoping'' theyll make a couple percent off an occasional sale.

Secondly, *I* was the one at risk.
*I* was the one who had to purchase the equipement, pay the taxes, pay wages even when a job was screwed up and worthless.

When employees start doing that, then they can claim part of the profit.

Also, as I pointed out, there is only room in your business for one person on top - you. In Quixtar, the people on the bottom level can earn a comparable amount to what the person "on top" makes by getting more people under them.

key words "under them''.
Having looked at Amway and seeing it in action, I know for a fact that getting all these people under you who are willing to commit to $200 a month in personal purchases of product is darned near impossible.
Only the few succeed.

If you haven't been in this business or at least thoroughly checked it out, it would be better not to comment on something you don't know about.

What part of this did you miss?

I gave it a chance in the mid 90s, took a look at it all, the way it operates, to see if Id be interested.

First thing I noticed was the product pricing was high end to heavily inflated.
Secondly, the only way for ME to make any money was to have a LOT of people under me in my ''pyramid'' who purchased quite a bit of product from thierselves each month.

You cant rely on salesmanship like in other businesses, you have to rely on those under you purchasing from themselves on the order of approx $200 a month. Every person, every month....or else you end up relying on infrequent sales that only profit you a couple of percent profit ($2-3 for taking an hour to sell a $100 pair of shoes)

I DID check it out quite extensively.

so next time you spout something out here, make sure YOU know what youre talking about.....thanks

 

[ScottBot]

I get the suspiscion that Egghead just likes to argue while seldom having a rational, arguable position. Must be a testosterone thing.

 

[ScottBot]

This is as far from truth as it can get.

Ive owned my own business for years.
The people UNDER me were MY employees who make their money off of jobs we sell, with money that funnels thru my hands.

I did not make money off of those under me.
We sell a product to make a profit, they make hourly wages from these profits.

That is nothing like gathering up 300 people who buy product that I make a few percent from each sale.

My employees were not peons.

Most legitimate businesses do not work anything like these pyramid schemes.

What are the chances that one of your employees will ever make more money than you?