Ammillennial Return of Christ: by Dr. Sam Storms

[sovereigngrace]

I really see no justifcation for your saying that.



Of course. And I totally believe that. But it's a freedom and victory that's got to go beyond just a legal redemption to a manifested by experience reality in a believers life. Thus Paul stated we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against.....(and I'm sure you know the rest). And even when it comes to worldly culture. Can you really believe the devil is bound out there and is inactive? Again doesn't even Acts 16:16 demonstrate this is not the case?

What is he bound from?

From deceiving the Gentiles no more.

Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.

Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Abaddon is not Satan. Nor is Satan presently in the bottomless pit.

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Yes he is!

1 Peter 5:8 says, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” but you fail to complete the teaching of the passage or grasp the power the believer possesses. The very next verse 1 Peter 5:9 affirms, “whom resist stedfast in the faith.” We have power over Satan since the cross!

While Satan resists you, the Bible says you have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against you.

In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” This is a well-tested principle that the saints of old have proved down through the years. You resist, he must flee. When the devil plants a temptation, a doubt or a fear, you simply have to resist it, whereupon Satan must get his boots on and run. This word “flee” in the original is the Greek word pheugo. It means to escape, flee away or vanish.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Nope can't see it in the way you're saying this. I believe of course that Satan was defeated at the cross and by the resurrection of Christ but that victory has to be enforced and established in the lives of each believer and even with things going on in the world. Satan is not bound at present from the affairs of men. We see in Acts 16:16 Satan was stirring up a problem in Paul's ministry and Paul spoke to the spirit in a young lady and cast it out.

I don't think anyone could therefore say the devil is bound, bound means an inability to function and operate in every regular sense of the word. With all due respect I think we have to deny the Bible in suggesting Satan isn't operating and hindering in any way that he can. Aren't we told as well not to give any place to the devil? Ephes 4:27 Why my friend would it matter if he's bound anyway?

1. Satan is a spiritual being.
2. Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.
3. Revelation is saturated in figurative language.
4. There is NO other Scripture that corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroyed.
5. Scripture teaches that Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13). Peter 2:4, Jude v 6 and Revelation 9:1-11 shows the demonic world in a current spiritually bound condition in the abyss.
6. Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

The binding of Satan is spiritual. He is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints.
Also, the binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.
Finally, Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.

The binding of Satan simply describes the legal restraints placed upon him after the cross that limits his capacity to do whatever he wants to do and go wherever he wants to go.

Society has many ways of restraining individuals that do not insinuate immobility.

 

[5thKingdom]

Notwithstanding, this kingdom of demons that is ruled by Satan is released from the bottomless pit prior to the end in order to wreak havoc. There can be no other wicked king reigning over this kingdom than Satan. To suggest otherwise is to contradict much Scripture that shows Lucifer as the leader of the wicked band.

You said:
I do not agree


Good, I welcome your comments and look forward
to the opportunity to TEST what I have "revealed"


You said:
Revelation 9:1-5 gives us an insight into the bottomless pit prior to the return of the Lord (the last trumpet). In fact, the scene appears at the time of the 5th trumpet (obviously before the last trump):


As I have already written:

(1) First, the Great Tribulation or the Revelation Beast and the end
of the world is shown to be THREE (3) Woes or the Fifth Trumpet,
Sixth Trumpet and Seventh Trumpet


Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the
midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to
the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of
the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


You said:
Here we have the opening of the abyss with a key before the second coming. Obviously, the place was locked up previously so that those inside couldn’t leave. Now please consider: this is evidence that Satan and his demons are in the pit before the second coming, but are released for a season at the end to do their damage.


Yes... actually we have the opening of the Pit at the
FIRST WOE (Fifth Trumpet) which is the START of
the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast.


Rev 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, [that is the FIRST WOE]
and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to
him was given the key of the bottomless pit.


You said:
Before proceeding any further, we should carefully note a few things here which most commentators seem to overlook. Firstly, this “star” descended “from heaven unto the earth.” Secondly, having settled on “the earth” the “star” gained direct rule and authority over the abyss. Regardless of one’s theological position, we must accept that the abyss (however we understand it) is located on earth.


Do you REALLY think there is a PHYSICAL key?
Do you REALLY think Satan is "bound" in PHYSICAL chains?
Do you REALLY think the Bottomless Pit is some
GEOGRAPHIC AREA on earth
(Maybe under Antarctica?)


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


You said:
In piecing the apocalyptic jigsaw together we find that this dark spiritual dungeon currently has a king over it. This gives us insight into the fact that the abyss must be speaking of a kingdom. Moreover, that kingdom is imprisoned in its own darkness. The fact that there is a king currently ruling tells us that the abyss must contain a kingdom. The word kingdom means 'king with a domain'. Its meaning includes the territory and the people over whom the King rules and exercises sovereign authority. The term also includes the legislation and laws that administrate that kingdom. The word employed in the New Testament for 'kingdom' is the Greek word basileia denoting 'sovereignty, royal power, kingship and dominion'. A kingdom must therefore have (1) a king - a head, (2) a domain to rule over - subjects and territory, (3) a structure of administration - ethics, rules and laws which govern it.


First... you made a mistake.
The King reigns over the "Locusts" (not the Pit)


Rev 9:10-11
And they [the Locusts] had tails like unto scorpions,
[representing false prophets] and there were stings in
their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
And they [the Locusts] had a king over them, which is
the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the
Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue
hath his name Apollyon.


Secondly, the "angel of the Bottomless Pit" is Satan
(Apollyon) since it is Satan which is "bound" in the Pit
(at the Cross)


Once again... the Bottomless Pit is NOT a "kingdom"
nor is it a geographic area under Antarctica... instead,


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


You said:
We all know, there are only two spiritual realms in conflict on this earth - the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Whilst these two kingdoms manifest through physical individuals they are invisible empires. The kingdom being described which "the destroyer" rules over is assuredly not the kingdom of God. The elect angels are never located in the abyss but rather in heavenly splendor. Therefore, we must be speaking of the dark restrained invisible spiritual realm of the devil's kingdom.


So you think the Bottomless Pit is Satan's realm?
Then WHY was he "bound" to it for 1000 years?
The Bottomless Pit is not Satan's realm, instead,
it is Satan's CAGE... he is "bound" to stay there.


And again... we must not pretend the key was a
PHYSICAL key or that Satan is "bound" in PHYSICAL
chains... or that the Bottomless Pit is some geographic
area on earth... or that the "Locusts" are big green
grasshoppers coming out of the Pit.


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


You said:
Who is this king (or destroyer) that currently reigns over "the bottomless pit" or abyss? We know from the description given of this king that we are looking at an angel. In fact, the king is called: "the angel of the abyss." There is no doubt that Abaddon / Apollyon are referring to someone within the demonic realm. This begs an instant question, who is the king that rules over that dark realm?


Excuse me... WHO said the King "reigns" over the Pit
Oh yeah... that was YOU SPECULATING. As I have
already shown you Apollyon reigns over the LOCUSTS
(and NO, they are not big green grasshoppers...
they are those preaching the GOSPEL of the
Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast)


You said:
Strong's Concordance gives us help, describing Apollyon (623) as "a destroyer (i.e. Satan)." Moreover, when we examine the root Greek word apollumi (Strong's 622) we find it means "to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively." The word is variously translated destroy, die, lose, mar, perish in the King James Version. There seems little doubt that Apollyon is referring to the devil. Time after time in Scripture we see Satan being described in such a destructive way. The name and characteristics of this being seem to identify him with that great enemy of the Church - the devil.


Yes... it is Satan... as I already told you.
I am glad to see that Strong's AGREES WITH ME.


You said:
Revelation 9:1-3 shows the abyss occupied now by Satan and his minions prior to the last trumpet. It also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Remember Abaddon/Apollyon is a king. This king is obviously head over a kingdom (that is what king's rule over) so what kingdom or domain and subjects and territory does he rule over? This is no natural king but a spiritual king. If it is a spiritual king it must either be Christ or Satan - the only two rulers over the two conflicting spiritual kingdoms. We know that Christ is not on earth since His ascent and definitely not in the abyss. There can surely be no doubt that this is Satan.


No... please pay attention.
Revelation 9:1-3 shows the Pit is occupied by Satan
when the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast BEGINS
at the FIRST WOE or Fifth Trumpet.


Rev 9:1-2
And the fifth angel sounded, [this is the FIRST WOE]
and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and
to him was given the key of the bottomless pit And he
opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke
out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and
the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the
smoke of the pit.


You said:
We cannot help but conclude, the angel (or star) that descends in Revelation 9:1-3 is given immediate authority over Satan (Abaddon / Apollyon) and his angels (symbolic represented in this passage as locust/scorpion-type creatures), who in turn are presently in the abyss realm. The one major difficulty for Premils here is that this passage expressly locates Satan and his minions in the abyss prior to the coming of the Lord, as Amillennialism believes and not after that as Premillennialism mistakenly argues.


No AGAIN... this does not put Satan in the Pit
"prior to the coming of the Lord"

This puts Satan in the Bottomless Pit until the START
of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast... at the
sounding of the Fifth Trumpet (First Woe)


From my original Post:


First, the Great Tribulation or the Revelation Beast and the end
of the world is shown to be THREE (3) Woes or the Fifth Trumpet,
Sixth Trumpet and Seventh Trumpet


Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the
midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to
the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of
the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!


You said:
This reading also significantly shows that Satan is currently subject to the authority of another angel (star). This angel obviously is not a fellow fallen angel, as Satan is undisputed king of that realm; it must therefore be an angel from the kingdom of God. Even though Satan is presently king over the abyss, he is currently restrained in that condition. Satan is restricted to the boundaries of the abyss - which is the spiritual abode of the kingdom of darkness. There is another angel that holds the key over


Of course Satan is under the authority of another...
he was "bound"... that is not a voluntary action.


Again you err... Satan is NOT king over the Pit...
He is king over the "Locusts". This is too important
for you to KEEP making the same mistake. Satan
was "bound" in the Pit (not the king of the Pit)


You said:
Notwithstanding, this kingdom of demons that is ruled by Satan is released from the bottomless pit prior to the end in order to wreak havoc. There can be no other wicked king reigning over this kingdom than Satan. To suggest otherwise is to contradict much Scripture that shows Lucifer as the leader of the wicked band


Hooray... you have found that the "Locusts" which are
ruled by Satan is the FIRST BEAST of Revelations..
which BEGINS at the Fifth Trumpet or First Woe.


You have made it VERY HARD to come to this conclusion
since that was the POINT of the original post. It is hard
for me to see people struggle to understand these events
since I have known this information for about 13 years.
Welcome to the Biblical Truth.


But now we have "harmony of Scripture" showing
Satan is "loosened" from the Bottomless Pit at the
START of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast...
at the FIRST WOE or the Fifth Trumpet.


The CONTEXT of Revelation is the Revelation Beast(s).
The FIRST BEAST arises at the First Woe/Fifth Trumpet.


Now... if you will like... we can talk about the rising
of the SECOND BEAST of the Great Tribulation and/or
Revelation period.


I do appreciate your comments:


I hope your confusion about this EVENT happening
at the START of the Revelation Beast(s) and I hope
this gives you a better CONTEXT about the EVENTS
occurring at the START of the Great Tribulation.


Think of it this way:
The "Locusts" (which Satan rules in the Great Trib)
are the FIRST BEAST of Revelations. They continue
until the end of the First Woe and the beginning of
the Second Woe [see Rev 9:12-21]


Rev 9:12
One woe is past; and, behold,
there come two woes more hereafter.

Rev 9:13-21
And the sixth angel sounded, [start of the Second Woe]
and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
[representing the Last Saints - the "wise virgins".... and fulfilling
Rev 6:9-11] And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, [Again, the Last Saints or "wise virgins"] by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. [the "foolish virgins" continue to follow the Beast AFTER the "wise virgins" are (spiritually) "killed" and abandon the Beast]


/

 

[Bobber]

This earth is now the prison from which Satan cannot escape.
This planet is like a bottomless pit to an angel who was once in the presence of God's light, because he cannot escape from it.

Sorry Berean but I think one has to take unwarranted liberties with the word of God to make such a speculative notion that there isn't a real bottomless pit. I see from your doctrine why you have to make it seem like there isn't one`but that it's really just talking about the atmospheric earth because you MUST have the devil at least here present among us at the present time. He is among us and his kingdom but we're talking about what capacity he has while being here. Another has asked me do I really think there's a bottomless pit? Do I think it's geographical area? Maybe under Antarctica?

Again individuals of your persuasion have to make it seem like there no literal sense to this at all but actually in physics you can have a bottomless pit. In the belly of the earth you'd reach a point where gravity would be neutral Such would fulfill a bottomless reality and where did Jesus say Hades was located? Matt 12:40 And if you're saying the earth that is the above earth is the pit and always has been.....that means that humans, Adam & Eve we're created in the bottomless pit? Sorry but to me your claims don't seem to make sense.

 

[5thKingdom]

Even if the angel of the pit is meaning satan, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, the text in Revelation 9 doesn't tell us one way or the other as to whether or not he is also in the pit when it is opened. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. That makes it even odds. For example, Trump is President of the USA. And when he is overseas he is still the President of the USA, yet he is not still in the USA at the time. In the same way the angel of the pit can still be the angel of the pit without also being locked up in it at the time, if he is instead somewhere else at the time.



Why do Amils insist Amil still works and is the correct position, even when others show time and time again that Amil can't logically fit the chronology of events? If Amil can work like Amils insist, then what Amil proposes should fit the chronology of events, not not fit them instead. The latter is called a contradiction of the texts involved.

The woe in Revelation 12:12 has to fit one of the 3 woes involving the last 3 trumpets. If it doesn't fit the first woe, maybe it fits the 2nd woe, then. I'm not even going to suggest it fits the 3rd woe since that woe is the 7th trumpet. So that means the woe in Revelation 12:12 either fits the first woe, the 5th trumpet events, or fits the 2nd woe, the 6th trumpet events.

Regardless which it might be, before this woe in Revelation 12:12 satan still had access to heaven, thus couldn't possibly be in the pit prior to this first woe which involves him being cast out of heaven unto the earth, having great wrath because he knows he has but a short time. And a thousand years are supposed to fit exactly where again?

I fully realize you don't take the thousand years to be a literal thousand years. Yet you take it to be symbolizing a period of time where the exact amount of years are unknown. So maybe I should rephrase my question. And a period of time when satan is in the pit where the exact amount of years are unknown are supposed to fit exactly where again?

You said:
Regardless which it might be, before this woe in Revelation 12:12 satan still had access to heaven, thus couldn't possibly be in the pit prior to this first woe which involves him being cast out of heaven unto the earth, having great wrath because he knows he has but a short time. And a thousand years are supposed to fit exactly where again?


Please tell me you understand there is no
PHYSICAL key.... and Satan is not "bound"
with PHYSICAL chains... and the Bottomless
Pit is not a geographic region on earth...
and the "Locusts" are not big green
grasshoppers.


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.



/

 

[Douggg]

Yes he is!

1 Peter 5:8 says, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” but you fail to complete the teaching of the passage or grasp the power the believer possesses. The very next verse 1 Peter 5:9 affirms, “whom resist stedfast in the faith.” We have power over Satan since the cross!

While Satan resists you, the Bible says you have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against you.

In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” This is a well-tested principle that the saints of old have proved down through the years. You resist, he must flee. When the devil plants a temptation, a doubt or a fear, you simply have to resist it, whereupon Satan must get his boots on and run. This word “flee” in the original is the Greek word pheugo. It means to escape, flee away or vanish.

The power that Christians have to resist the devil, indicates that Satan is not presently in bottomless pit.

 

[5thKingdom]

Sorry Berean but I think one has to take unwarranted liberties with the word of God to make such a speculative notion that there isn't a real bottomless pit. I see from your doctrine why you have to make it seem like there isn't one`but that it's really just talking about the atmospheric earth because you MUST have the devil at least here present among us at the present time. He is among us and his kingdom but we're talking about what capacity he has while being here. Another has asked me do I really think there's a bottomless pit? Do I think it's geographical area? Maybe under Antarctica?

Again individuals of your persuasion have to make it seem like there no literal sense to this at all but actually in physics you can have a bottomless pit. In the belly of the earth you'd reach a point where gravity would be neutral Such would fulfill a bottomless reality and where did Jesus say Hades was located? Matt 12:40 And if you're saying the earth that is the above earth is the pit and always has been.....that means that humans, Adam & Eve we're created in the bottomless pit? Sorry but to me your claims don't seem to make sense.

Please tell me you understand there is no
PHYSICAL key.... and Satan is not "bound"
with PHYSICAL chains... and the Bottomless
Pit is not a geographic region on earth...
and the "Locusts" are not big green
grasshoppers.


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

The greatest way of have trouble with the Ammillennial position is the suggestion that Satan is bound right now. I don't see that in the writings of Jesus nor in the writings of Paul or Peter. Ephesians says we wrestle not against flesh and blood......Ephes 6:10. That of course was written years after Jesus ascended to the Father. YES Satan is defeated for us In Christ BUT we must enforce that victory with the word of God. Because we have to do that I can't see Satan is bound like ammillienialists seem to claim. And then there's Peter who stated the devil goes about seeking whom he may destroy? 1 Peter 5:8 How can he do that if he's bound?

But you are talking about the CONTEXT of
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13]
when the CONTEXT of the Revelation Beast
is the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]


Please tell me you understand there is no
PHYSICAL key.... and Satan is not "bound"
with PHYSICAL chains... and the Bottomless
Pit is not a geographic region on earth...
and the "Locusts" are not big green
grasshoppers.


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

The power that Christians have to resist the devil, indicates that Satan is not presently in bottomless pit.

Please tell me you understand there is no
PHYSICAL key.... and Satan is not "bound"
with PHYSICAL chains... and the Bottomless
Pit is not a geographic region on earth...
and the "Locusts" are not big green
grasshoppers.


The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


/

 

[Douggg]

Please tell me you understand there is no
PHYSICAL key.... and Satan is not "bound"
with PHYSICAL chains...

I don't know what the chains are, nor what the key is.

Pit is not a geographic region on earth...
and the "Locusts" are not big green
grasshoppers.

I would not say on the earth. Possibly within the earth.

 

[5thKingdom]

I don't know what the chains are, nor what the key is.


I would not say on the earth. Possibly within the earth.

You said:
I don't know what the chains are, nor what the key is.

You don't know what the chains are...
You don't know what the key is...
You don't know what the Pit is...
You don't know what the Locusts are...

And yet, you want to pretend to have some
understanding about the EVENTS occurring
during the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast.

That is just hilarious.


/

 

[5thKingdom]

I would not say on the earth. Possibly within the earth.

No... that is where the Hobbits live and the Elfs live
and were the Orcs are.

The Pit is a CONDITION to not have AUTHORITY
during the Great Commission of the Church Age
(again showing Satan was BOUND at the Cross)


Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.


/

 

[TribulationSigns]

Nope can't see it in the way you're saying this. I believe of course that Satan was defeated at the cross and by the resurrection of Christ but that victory has to be enforced and established in the lives of each believer and even with things going on in the world. Satan is not bound at present from the affairs of men. We see in Acts 16:16 Satan was stirring up a problem in Paul's ministry and Paul spoke to the spirit in a young lady and cast it out

I think we need to go to Scripture first on WHEN and WHY Satan was bound.

Matthew 12:28-29 KJV
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:27 KJV
[27] No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

The strong man is Satan. His house is the world. His goods are people in spiritual bondage whom Christ wants to spoil (save). Therefore, in order to spoil people and build a church with it, Christ needs to bind the strong man FIRST which He did at the Cross.

Revelation 20:1-3 KJV
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan is a spirit that cannot be bind with the physical chain and key. Satan was obviously our king and rule over ALL of us before some of us were saved. A strong man, Christ, came and defeated Satan, have spoiled his kingdom (wherein he ruled) and delivered us from his power of darkness and bondage.

Colossians 1:13-14 KJV
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

There are some inconsistencies of the premillennialist doctrines. They rejected the idea about Satan being bound at the cross because they say, "if so, Satan wouldn't be doing such evil now in the world." And yet they cannot explain how before he is bound, what prevents him from doing such great evil in the world? He would have had to been bound before, "ELSE" he was loosed! We read that Satan was SPECIFICALLY bound at the Cross so that he could not deceive the nations/gentiles. We were spiritually nations or gentiles in his house we became saved. In other words, Satan could not prevent Christ from spoiling some people from his house so that Christ would glean the chosen from to serve in HIS kingdom (the millennial reign). Christ used his people to bring forth Gospel to the ends of the world (Satan's house) to spoil (save) all people Christ intent to be sealed has been sealed. THEN, Satan will be loosened from bottomless pit to deceive the nations/gentiles once again. In other words, salvation has ceased now that Christ has secured all of His People which 144,000 symbolically referred to.

Revelation 7:1-4 KJV
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Satan and his spirits were restrained (bound) until Christ first finish building his church through the testimony of Two Witnesses, Revelation 11:7. When it is finished, Satan will come out of the bottomless pit to deceive the nations/gentiles for a short season prior to Second Coming.

With all due respect I think we have to deny the Bible in suggesting Satan isn't operating and hindering in any way that he can. Aren't we told as well not to give any place to the devil? Ephes 4:27 Why my friend would it matter if he's bound anyway?

What did the context of Eph 4:27 talk about?

Ephesians 4:26-28 KJV
[26] Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
[27] Neither give place to the devil.
[28] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

This is talking about giving Satan the place in our hearts. Nothing to do with Revelation 20.

Anyway, being bound by Christ does not mean that Satan was able to prevent the world from having peace. No, he was specifically bound for the Elect, not the world. Satan was bound so that the Elect of these nations/Gentiles would be set free from their deceiving or blindness. The words translated nations and Gentiles are the exact same word. We were once spiritual gentiles (unsaved) as opposed to spiritual Jews (saved in Christ). Satan was bound SPIRITUALLY so that we could hear the Gospel of Truth brought by Elect before us! And after becoming Christians, we continued to work in God's kingdom to bring Gospel to the lost. God will have all of His People to hear when the Gospel gets to them as long as Satan was bound. Again, once the building of God's church is finished within all of His people secured, Satan will be loosened again that will prevent more people from being saved! This is where the Great Tribulation comes in but it is a different subject to be discussed later!

Good night!

 

[TribulationSigns]

You said:
I don't know what the chains are, nor what the key is.

You don't know what the chains are...
You don't know what the key is...
You don't know what the Pit is...
You don't know what the Locusts are...

And yet, you want to pretend to have some
understanding about the EVENTS occurring
during the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast.

That is just hilarious.

Indeed but sadly that many professed Christians do not have spiritual discernment on what the book of Revelation talks about.

Like I said in my previous post, the power of binding is in the SYMBOLISM of the key and the chain. Satan cannot be bound with a literal chain of iron, or locked in a literal pit, with a literal brass key. Again, Satan is a SPIRIT that CANNOT be bound by literal earthly devices. We need to understand that the words here of key and chain have spiritual significance.

The Lord uses these symbols to illustrate a spiritual (but very literal) picture for us. Once we understand this, half the battle of understanding His Word is won. The angel (messenger) of Revelation 20 is only the Lord qualifies for such an impossible task! No one else has that kind of Power to overcome or conquer the strong one, Satan. Therefore, the Only messenger who came down from heaven to bind Satan is Christ! The key here symbolizes that the Messenger (Christ, not angel) has the right and authority to bind and loose. This messenger comes down from Heaven holds the right and authority and means (key) to bind Satan. The signification being, "He who holds the key, holds the ability and authority to restrain Satan". That would also include the ability and authority to loose Satan from that restraint. The Chain symbolizes the power (force or energy required to do the holding) to bind. It is a "Great" Chain because Satan is a spiritually strong man (Matthew 12:29) and strong adversary, upon whom only a great or special binding from God will restrain. The bottomless pit is symbolism for a boundless void (or Abyss) of nothingness. Satan (a spirit being) is held in idleness, that his ability to deceive the gentiles whom God is now being restrained by the Holy Spirit, is stopped. For example, he cannot prevent the preaching of the Gospel from reaching his people so that Christ could build his church with them!

And I do know who are the locusts of Revelation 9 but that will be discussed later.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Abaddon is not Satan.

Yes, Satan is Abaddon. He is the king over men with the spirit of antichrist.

Nor is Satan presently in the bottomless pit.

Well, you may be right, since he has been LOOSENED from the bottomless pit recently. But do you understand exactly why he was loosened and what is his purpose when he is loosened? Can you show us the answer in Scripture?

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I have explained how Satan was being bound in the bottomless pit the same way God explains it. In other words, though Satan was destroyed [katargeo] that he is brought down to idleness or uselessness by the death of Christ that the nations (or Gentiles) can be saved, he is clearly in another sense "not destroyed" for the world and still active in the world.

Hebrews 2:14-15

• "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
• And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage."

Shall we ask God how He says Satan is destroyed, and yet is still active in the world? Yes, we should, and the answer is found by comparing Scripture with Scripture, searching the Bible in the Spirit of obedience. Then we come to understand that Satan was bound and Spiritually chained and made idle for the sake of the elect of the nations, but not for the world. He cannot harm the elect, but he goes about seeking whom he may devour of the world.

Let me repeat this for you...Satan was not bound for the world's sake, Satan was bound for the elect of the Kingdom of Heaven's sake. For the world, Satan still goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. For true believers, he has no more power over us. His power over us has been broken by Christ because he has wounded the head of this Beast for us. Not for the world.

John 17:9

• "I pray for them: I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

As for the "visible" church on Earth over the years since the Cross, being killed and doing all manner of evil, this has always been the case, and always will be as long as we are on this sin-cursed earth!

 

[BABerean2]

Sorry Berean but I think one has to take unwarranted liberties with the word of God to make such a speculative notion that there isn't a real bottomless pit.

Since the earth is a sphere with literal real boundaries, can you explain to us how to put a literal "bottomless" pit anywhere on this planet?


The Earth:

.

 

[BABerean2]

Abaddon is not Satan.

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


Who is the "king" of the bottomless pit?


Rev_9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
(In Revelation 1:20 Christ says the word "star" is used as a symbol of angels.)

Rev_9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev_9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev_11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev_20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev_20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


.

 

[BABerean2]

The greatest way of have trouble with the Ammillennial position is the suggestion that Satan is bound right now.

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Right from the ECFs through the Reformation, the covenanters, puritans, pilgrim fathers, Wesley, Edwards, Whitfield, and through till today, Amil has been the main view in Christendom. In America, where Bible knowledge is an inch thick and a mile wide, Dispensationalism prospers. I am from Northern Ireland. I have been a Pastor in the USA for over 12 years. There are many within the ministry that have turned in recent years. Bible Colleges are even changing from within. That change will be more pronounced within this next 10 years if the Lord tarries as these preachers are put on the front line.

I currently hold to the the historical premil position, as still see the Messianic Age as being when the Kingdom of Jesus established in full on earth and Him reigning!