American elderly about to be thrown under the bus

[Archivist]

Well, not really. Yes, that was the way the very first beneficiaries--and for the next decade or so--got on. That was because the government rightly concluded that it couldn't set up a retirement system during the Depression and then tell people they couldn't get any retirement benefits, despite their age, until the trust fun had built up to some level.

However, all that passed away decades ago. Today, some get a windfall and some do not collect what they put in. That's because of the unpredictability of life, when each of us will die and so on. Its also because that is the nature of insurance. You may pay for fire insurance all your life but never have a fire. Were you cheated because of that?

It was more than a decade or so. When SS was first set up the life expectancy was 62 for men and 65 for women. That changed significantly over the years. By 1970 men were living to 69 and women to 75. Yet retirement ages weren’t adjusted significantly until the 1980s. By that time SS had dug itself into a hole from which it has never and will never recover.

You are correct that some people don’t get what they paid into SS. However, because of the increase in life span most people currently get more, in some cases far more than they paid in. I feel bad for those currently entering the work force who will pay into SS their whole lives to support others but who will possibly get back nothing or get back only part of what they paid in because SS will be means tested by that time.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

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I have read this article 2 times in the last 6 mo. thinking it was something important, ....It"s not.

Yeah some day in the future maybe there will have to be cuts, but in the foreseeable future not likely, remember POLITICIANS want to be reelected, they would be cutting their own throat if they cut SS.

SS is still "the 3rd rail".

 

[dqhall]

The first person to collect Social Security was Ida May Fuller. She worked for three years under the Social Security program. The accumulated taxes on her salary during those three years was a total of $24.75. Her initial monthly check was $22.54. During her lifetime she collected a total of $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits.

Does that explain why Social Security is running out of money? Because of the increasing life expectancy, too many people have collected far more out of Social Security than they ever paid in.

When I started working I was paid $2.10 an hour. The price of a new car was $5000 then. Now they are trying to tell me I did not pay enough in. They spent the money I paid in to fund the Federal deficit, but kept a tab so they could pay it back. What I put in bought a lot more back then, now it looks like I was not paying. In reality it was the government who was spending more than they paid in. They printed more money to make the money I held worth less. The only time Congress ever passed a balanced budget in the past sixty years was during the Bill Clinton administration.

People would like to work until they are 70, but their strength gives out. UPS set things up for their drivers to retire at 55. They have a pension plan in addition to Social Security. The military let people retire after 20 years service. Many of these went on to work second careers.

Disneyworld, Vegas and ocean cruises reminds me of the lifestyle of the prodigal son. He took his inheritance and spent on sin and pleasure in a foreign land. When he was hungry and ragged, he returned to his family to try to work for them. Someone who is old and squanders a fortune might not even get rehired.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

IMHO, assuming it will be done, they should decrease 30% from the richest, and redistribute it to the poorest on SS, afterall, programs like food stamps are income based (and in need of an overhaul).

One thing I think our President should try to push through is an increase in minimum wage, it's long overdue and I think it was part of his campaign platform if I remember correctly.

Overall though, SS benefits should actually be increased across the board, it's ridiculous, people spend their whole lives slaving for employers, only to hit a financial brick wall when they become elderly. It is their money they put into SS, so it is not like a handout. Even so, there is always a portion of people who for whatever reason may not have been able to put as much or so much into SS, and should at least receive a poor but livable income, key word is livable which means keeping up with inflation, something minimum wage is woefully short of.

SS benefits for the lowest earners are subsidized by higher earners already. SS is also 'means tested' in that benefits are taxed if total income exceeds a certain amount. The revenue is returned to the SS fund and makes it's way to the lower earners. The system is quite fair.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

People would like to work until they are 70, but their strength gives out. UPS set things up for their drivers to retire at 55. They have a pension plan in addition to Social Security. The military let people retire after 20 years service. Many of these went on to work second careers.

I'm 78 and still working. My strength hasn't given out, although I do get sore muscles when the work gets heavy. I do the physical work of a younger man, love it and will continue into my 80's (if my strength holds out). Still climbing trees and lugging deer out of the woods as well. Life is good!

Me at 76, relaxing 20 feet up, waiting for "da turdy point buck'.

 

[Albion]

It was more than a decade or so. When SS was first set up the life expectancy was 62 for men and 65 for women. That changed significantly over the years. By 1970 men were living to 69 and women to 75. Yet retirement ages weren’t adjusted significantly until the 1980s.

You can put it that way. I should have said "several decades" if I wanted to be more precise than I thought the point required. But that still puts the end of that era at a half-century ago.

By that time SS had dug itself into a hole from which it has never and will never recover.

Oh, that's not true. A few changes, not including the 25% cut in benefits for the richest recipients that was talked about on this thread, could extend its solvency into the later part of this century.

 

[mama2one]

When SS was first set up the life expectancy was 62 for men and 65 for women. Yet retirement ages weren’t adjusted significantly until the 1980s.

yes, many people are living longer
recently visited parents of one of my friends, both in their 80's, still driving, getting along good, he is 87

one of my neighbors is 80, him and his wife still in and out of their house a lot, also both driving, although saw her zoom into driveway other day (think I'll stay clear)

a lot of people can still function, drive, be in their own houses into their 80's, collecting S.S.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

IMHO, assuming it will be done, they should decrease 30% from the richest, and redistribute it to the poorest on SS, afterall, programs like food stamps are income based (and in need of an overhaul).

Food stamp (SNAP) benefits should be reduced. Small children don't eat that much.

One thing I think our President should try to push through is an increase in minimum wage, it's long overdue and I think it was part of his campaign platform if I remember correctly.

Only if student loans are cut back. This would force these kids to earn more for college.

Overall though, SS benefits should actually be increased across the board, it's ridiculous, people spend their whole lives slaving for employers, only to hit a financial brick wall when they become elderly. It is their money they put into SS, so it is not like a handout. Even so, there is always a portion of people who for whatever reason may not have been able to put as much or so much into SS, and should at least receive a poor but livable income, key word is livable which means keeping up with inflation, something minimum wage is woefully short of.

SS isn't intended to provide 100% of retirement needs. It's insurance against absolute poverty.

 

[FenderTL5]

..A few changes, not including the 25% cut in benefits for the richest recipients that was talked about on this thread, could extend its solvency into the later part of this century.

The maximum taxable earnings for Social Security withholding for 2018 are $128,700.
iow, a person stops paying any more into ss at 128,700, someone making millions pays the same as if they only made 128,700.

That's one of the changes that could/should be adjusted, imho.

 

[Albion]

The maximum taxable earnings for Social Security withholding for 2018 are $128,700.
iow, a person stops paying any more into ss at 128,700, someone making millions pays the same as if they only made 128,700.

That's one of the changes that could/should be adjusted, imho.

Well, that's the change that comes most readily to mind. The amount has been upped many times. However, if the cap were lifted altogether, it would destroy any semblance of the program being social insurance and wage-related, as was the original intention, turning it into just another welfare program.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Food stamp (SNAP) benefits should be reduced. Small children don't eat that much.

Children cannot apply for them, the purpose of SNAP is supplemental funds exclusively for food, for low income adults or families. This means at least one adult is working, for peanuts. And the point at which they reduce benefits is low, ridiculously low.

Only if student loans are cut back. This would force these kids to earn more for college.

Better yet, reduce government WH officials income, and stop handing out paychecks to former presidents as though they were still in office.

SS isn't intended to provide 100% of retirement needs. It's insurance against absolute poverty.

Could it be that it fails as insurance against absolute poverty? I think so. It is wishful thinking to suppose everyone or even most will have other sources of income when they reach a certain age to sustain their basic needs. Certainly the high costs for medical treatment, including medications, have not helped. And the layers of paper bureaucracy and the long waiting lines are complete nonsense.

 

[FenderTL5]

Pensions? That's a element of a bygone era in the USA. Isn't it?

[Edit to add] In early 2017, the Wall Street Journal reported the percentage of American private-sector workers who have a traditional pension is 13%, down from 38% in 1979.

 

[mama2one]

Pensions? That's a element of a bygone era in the USA.

we don't have one but do have 401 K which is scary as a lot depends on market

 

[JIMINZ]

SS is still "the 3rd rail".

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Why do you believe SS is dangerous?

 

[dqhall]

I'm 78 and still working. My strength hasn't given out, although I do get sore muscles when the work gets heavy. I do the physical work of a younger man, love it and will continue into my 80's (if my strength holds out). Still climbing trees and lugging deer out of the woods as well. Life is good!

Me at 76, relaxing 20 feet up, waiting for "da turdy point buck'.
View attachment 239896

Good for you.

My grandfather was injured in a refinery accident and retired in his 50's. He and his wife lived into their mid 80's.

I spent twenty years researching investments. I still have money.

 

[JIMINZ]

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but do you mind telling us if you are living comfortable on that amount? I don't know enough as I haven't researched it for long, but if they cut your SS 25% you might not be able to make it. I don't know if it's a proposed across the board cut or a cut only for the wealthy.

Social Security remains insolvent. The trust fund will run out in 2034 at which point all beneficiaries will face a sudden 21% benefit cut. -Committee For Responsible Federal Budget

http://www.crfb.org/socialsecurityreformer/

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To tell you the truth, I live better now than I did when I was working.

When I worked, there was never anything left over at the end of the month to put in the Bank, now the money goes in first and we live on the rest.

My view on who should and shouldn't get SS, anyone who has earned $80,000 a year for 10 years, or anyone with a 401-K for 10 yrs does not get SS.

 

[mama2one]

very sad when cost of health care takes away everything from many elderly

 

[mama2one]

I see health care as probably being biggest expense when retirement comes

 

[Archivist]

When I started working I was paid $2.10 an hour. The price of a new car was $5000 then. Now they are trying to tell me I did not pay enough in. They spent the money I paid in to fund the Federal deficit, but kept a tab so they could pay it back. What I put in bought a lot more back then, now it looks like I was not paying. In reality it was the government who was spending more than they paid in. They printed more money to make the money I held worth less. The only time Congress ever passed a balanced budget in the past sixty years was during the Bill Clinton administration.

And SS taxes have increased from 1% in the late 40s to 6.2% today, so today’s workers are paying much more than those in the past.

People would like to work until they are 70, but their strength gives out. UPS set things up for their drivers to retire at 55. They have a pension plan in addition to Social Security. The military let people retire after 20 years service. Many of these went on to work second careers.

And that is part of the problem, military who retire with a pension, then get government jobs so they get a government pension, then get a civilian job where they pay in just enough to allow them to collect SS.

Disney world, Vegas and ocean cruises reminds me of the lifestyle of the prodigal son. He took his inheritance and spent on sin and pleasure in a foreign land. When he was hungry and ragged, he returned to his family to try to work for them. Someone who is old and squanders a fortune might not even get rehired.

Don’t know how this applies to anything I wrote.

 

[Archivist]

yes, many people are living longer
recently visited parents of one of my friends, both in their 80's, still driving, getting along good, he is 87

one of my neighbors is 80, him and his wife still in and out of their house a lot, also both driving, although saw her zoom into driveway other day (think I'll stay clear)

a lot of people can still function, drive, be in their own houses into their 80's, collecting S.S.

Yes, and they have collected far more from SS than they ever paid in. My mom is 92, my dad passed away 15 years ago. Before my dad died he told me that he estimated that he had collected at least three times what he had ever paid. My mom has collected far more in those 15 years.