American Drivers - Deadly

[Tuur]

Same here. More gravel roads than paved, but they are pretty well maintained. You can drive anything on them, tho they do ice up in winter. Massive 7000# personal transport vehicles not necessary.

That said, I once got a company truck stuck in a sand dune and was rescued by another company truck that had 4WD. The supervisor mildly reprimanded me, then got stuck a few days later.

Strangest was on terrain where I couldn't get traction. Wasn't even grounded out. But cutting chunks to try to get traction didn't work and had to radio for help. They sent what we call a service truck, which are one size up from a regular pickup, and I think this one had 4WD. Once pulled foward just a little where I could get traction, and I turned around and headed out across the narrow pond dam that was the only way in and out. Got to the other side and waited, and waited, and waited. Was afraid the other guy had slipped off the dam, and was about to radio him when I saw him slowly creeping along the dam.

The next time I had to go there, I parked the truck at the end of the dam and walked.

 

[timothyu]

but less injuries and deaths since "crumpled" parts didn't reach the passengers -- as they frequently did in cars 50 years ago.

Cars then and now are like comparing dropping a ball bearing vs an egg. Bounce back did more damage to what was inside.

 

[Tuur]

I wondered about the high population areas skewing the results but then I noticed Wyoming, which ranks up there with the worst. In Wyoming, I'm guessing part of it is due to the large number of trucks on the roads (appears to have the largest percentage of trucks vs. cars registered in the US).

Wyoming may be a case of distance from a trauma center. That's just a guess.

 

[timothyu]

Wyoming may be a case of distance from a trauma center. That's just a guess.

Not to mention speed. Funny thing about wide open spaces. You start out with good intentions of driving a reasonable speed but after a few hours of nothingness, you start to wonder if it will ever end and speed goes up accordingly. Like when a fly gets frantic trying to get out of a glass jar. As tension goes up ability goes down.

 

[Tuur]

...and the car industry gleefully re-enforces that day dream in their advertising. I'm amazed how many consumers will fork over large sums of money for capability they will hardly ever use!

Eh, it's selling what people want. Just because they won't actually use it that way has no bearing. It's like a car dealership I passed the other day that had an ORV parked on a pile of riprap. Now, the only place you'll find that kind of rocky terrain around here is a pile of the stuff. Sand and mud and clay are what you have to deal with here. But I guess it looked more snazzy to park it on riprap than in mud.

 

[SimplyMe]

One of the things I am constantly fighting with friends is their claim that cars are safer now so they can drive faster. While cars are safer, they still are not designed to be safer at faster speeds. The faster you are going, the more energy in the car that has to go somewhere when you crash, and at some speeds, it can't absorb all of the energy. So if you are going the speed limit and you get in a crash on the highway, depending on the year, make, and model of the car you could walk away with a bruise to a broken leg whereas if you were speeding 20 mph more, you could end up severely injured or dead.

The safety features in cars are great, but they are a poor excuse to speed.

I think there are two different thoughts here -- that cars are designed to be more easily driven at higher speeds but, the other point you are making, driving at speed increases the danger of injury and death. The various improvements to cars over the years, particularly things like Electronic Stability Control, make it much easier to control cars at higher speeds.

On the other hand, you are correct that driving at higher speeds is more likely to cause injury and death. Of course, people tend not to want to think of that -- and if they do many think their "driving skills" will protect them. Not to mention how many younger people seem to think it can't happen to them.

It is something of a Catch-22, cars drive at higher speeds better but it still increases the risk of death in an accident.

And while this isn't typically an issue for people in the US (unless you regularly take roads where you drive over 100), I remember talking with a co-worker when I was in the Air Force in Germany. He lived a distance from base and took the Autobahn daily to get to work. He was absolutely shocked when he learned about the speed ratings on tires -- something it seems most Americans don't know about. He would often drive about 140 mph to get to work, but then learned that his tires were only rated up to around 120 mph. He did a common test to see if he was "overdriving" his tires -- he put a chalk mark that went across the rim and the part of tire near the rim. When he got to work, he found that the mark on the tire was roughly an inch away from the mark on the rim. Needless to say, he slowed down after that; at least until he could get better tires that were rated for his higher speeds.

 

[timothyu]

Funny how for almost a century we got along fine without all the gadgetry. Guess once they made a motor that would last more than five years they figured the trinkets would justify the outrageous prices today. I had no trouble wandering trails, farms and farm roads or logging roads with my olden vehicles or even my 88 front wheel drive gadgetless Sunbird than I do today with these modern mechanical breakdown marvels.

 

[timothyu]

Needless to say, he slowed down after that; at least until he could get better tires that were rated for his higher speeds.

Which is why they switched to radial tires in the 70's, less chance of losing control in a blowout compared to total loss of control before. Too bad they make them out of plastic today. Also the rise of interstates and higher speeds brought tube tires to an end due to the heat factor.

 

[Tuur]

Bike touring around UK I noticed that even rural farmers do not have giant vehicles. If they need to move a big load they just hook up a trailer. But a huge truck would be really awkward on those narrow lanes, not to mention parking in town, etc.

Haven't had problems with the average full-sized pickup in town. You can tow with a small 4WD vehicle if it's geared right, but the back doesn't have much payload capacity. We had an old, worn out 4WD that was handy, but when we needed to buy feed, we took the pickup. You see "duallies" locally, driven by people who tow large trailers.

 

[SimplyMe]

Wyoming may be a case of distance from a trauma center. That's just a guess.

That could be some of it, particularly if talking about crashes in "local" traffic in and around some of the smaller towns.

Not to mention speed. Funny thing about wide open spaces. You start out with good intentions of driving a reasonable speed but after a few hours of nothingness, you start to wonder if it will ever end and speed goes up accordingly. Like when a fly gets frantic trying to get out of a glass jar. As tension goes up ability goes down.

I see you've driving I-80 in Wyoming. It then gets exacerbated by the huge number of semi trucks that cross Wyoming on I-80.

Of course, part of the issue I have is comparing it to Utah, or even Montana. Montana has I-90 and equally bad (or even worse) weather, similar issue with lack of trauma hospitals, still a high number of trucks, etc. Not to say Montana isn't bad but it is a step above where Wyoming is.

Utah has some population in the Northern part of the state and some decent hospitals -- but that doesn't help with I-70. It is also a long stretch of road with a high speed limit (max speed limits on both I-80 in Wyoming and I-70 in Utah are 80 mph). Much of I-15 also fits, though you do have the hospitals in Ogden-Salt Lake-Provo in the North and also in the South in St. George -- though it is empty in-between. I suppose I could throw Moab in, as a place where you get a lot of people driving in huge trucks because of the off-roading -- in a town overcrowded because of all the tourists there to off-road, and the National Parks (Arches and Canyonlands) right by Moab. So it seems somewhat odd to me that Utah has one of the best fatality rates (in the Top 10) while Wyoming is the second worst.

 

[SimplyMe]

Which is why they switched to radial tires in the 70's, less chance of losing control in a blowout compared to total loss of control before. Too bad they make them out of plastic today. Also the rise of interstates and higher speeds brought tube tires to an end due to the heat factor.

This was the 80s, and he had good radial tires on the car -- just not for the speed he was driving. Though he did get away with it for several months before he learned, so there is something to say about it being a well designed tire. Still, pretty scary to see that your tire move that much on the rim after only about 20 miles of high speed driving.

 

[timothyu]

I see you've driving I-80 in Wyoming.

It is the same to the northern plains in eastern Alberta and western Saskatchewan, half a day of nothing but scrub then half a day of grain (which must be planted by aliens as there are no people in sight).So much room and empty spaces in North America yet people prefer to live on top of each other in cities and drive inches apart.

 

[wing2000]

Eh, it's selling what people want. Just because they won't actually use it that way has no bearing. It's like a car dealership I passed the other day that had an ORV parked on a pile of riprap. Now, the only place you'll find that kind of rocky terrain around here is a pile of the stuff. Sand and mud and clay are what you have to deal with here. But I guess it looked more snazzy to park it on riprap than in mud.

And what people want is influenced by marketing (I realize it's a chicken or egg argument). We know the car companies make their biggest profit margins off the gadget laden SUV's and Pickups. One example is the expectation that cars have AWD to handle winter driving conditions. A FWD car with snow tires is perfectly capable of handling snowy conditions. Yet somehow, consumers today think they need AWD....

 

[timothyu]

still a high number of trucks, etc.

That has a lot to do with it. A good part of the problem today is the semi traffic, justified over practical and economic train usage, simply because it creates a lot of unnecessary jobs, keeps governments looking good and selling a lot of fuel. Regardless of the speed, people just love to pass a semi even if they blow their engine or lose control doing so. (Reminds me of a time a guy in his high end car wasn't going to let a '57 Plymouth get the better of him and blew his engine trying to make his point... a lot of that mentality out there also leading to accidents. As I said earlier greed and selfishness is the biggest cause of road deaths).

 

[timothyu]

A FWD car with snow tires is perfectly capable of handling snowy conditions.

Never had a problem with RWD either, just required a different skill set. Even drove the old Alaskan highway in winter with bald summer tires

 

[SimplyMe]

And what people want is influenced by marketing (I realize it's a chicken or egg argument). We know the car companies make their biggest profit margins off the gadget laden SUV's and Pickups. One example is the expectation that cars have AWD to handle winter driving conditions. A FWD car with snow tires is perfectly capable of handling snowy conditions. Yet somehow, consumers today think they need AWD....

That reminds me of one other issue, and it may be part of what contributes to deaths in Western states -- the lifted pickup. Of course, that was something I saw in Texas a lot (particularly near the larger cities) and never understood, why do you need to raise your pickup by a foot when you live in a flat part of a largely "flat" state (noting that Texas does have some hills, or even mountains in the far Western part of the state).

I recently saw a post on another forum where a poster was talking about a relative had died needlessly, where they crashed with a lifted pick up. Because of the height of the truck, rather than the bumper of the car meeting the bumper of the truck, as they are designed to do, the bumper of the truck went much higher, directly causing the deaths of people in the car.

Of course, the other issue with trucks, which was partially mentioned, was why the hood of the trucks keeps getting higher, for seemingly no real reason (the engine would still fit easily, as they did previously). I read recently that the average height of the hood for a full size pickup truck is now 40" high -- almost 3-1/2 feet, or far too high to see if a child or even an adult, crouching to pick something up, is in front of the truck. I think this video does a good job of showing the issue (the tests showing it start about 3:00):

As some there say, it is scary how little can be seen for several feet in front. In a Consumer Reports test, they found a pickup/SUV where you could not see a child sitting in front of the vehicle, unless the child was at least 15 feet away.

 

[wing2000]

That reminds me of one other issue, and it may be part of what contributes to deaths in Western states -- the lifted pickup. Of course, that was something I saw in Texas a lot (particularly near the larger cities) and never understood, why do you need to raise your pickup by a foot when you live in a flat part of a largely "flat" state (noting that Texas does have some hills, or even mountains in the far Western part of the state).

Yes, and as the op's linked article noted, the higher profile vehicle are more likely to kill someone in sedan height vehicles (and tragic events as noted in your video).

I observe the same patterns here in the urban Phoenix area. Raised pickups & SUV's that will never see a dirt road (which is a waste as there are plenty of off-roading opportunties here in the Southwest. It all boils down to the cool factor I guess.

 

[Larniavc]

You can purchase this study if you like.

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

Looks like I've learnt something new!

 

[timothyu]

Looks like I've learnt something new!

Shhhh.. big brother is watching

 

[Bradskii]

For example, when driving on the Autobahn you quickly learn to stay in the right lane unless passing and it is illegal to pass on the right -- this is enforced.

That drives me nuts. Someone dawdling along in the middle lane.

The first time I drove on an Autobahn the areas with no speed limits came as a surprise. I'd check my mirror to overtake some dude, I'm doing about 120kph, there's a car waaay back, so I indicate and start to move out and that guy behind blasts past me like I'm standing still. I learned that you had to watch anyone behind you for a few seconds to make sure he's not traveling at twice your speed.