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miamited

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I do believe we can and should press forward in praying for and expecting a return of the US to its former Christianized condition.

Hi AACJ,

You really must be living in some sort of rose colored lab. Our nation has a former 'christianized condition'? Was that before or after we attacked and killed and corralled all of the native Americans that were here first? Was that God's hand that sent us over here to straighten out those 'barbaric' Indians? Was that before or after we felt free to hang or murder any black person for just the way they held their tails up high? Was that before or after all the fine church goin' men put on their white robes and hoods and went out to scare the begeezus out of the black community and hang men and women and children because they were merely unevolved monkeys? No, no, I get it. That was when all of America dressed up in their fine Sunday linen to go to worship services and then go sit down for their good home cooked Sunday dinner to talk about how terrible it was that Mrs. Shaughnessy brought that no good son or daughter of hers to worship service. Or how poor Fred looked with that wicked wife of his.

Yes, there was a time that most of America attended worship services and all the stores, except of course those wicked ones, were closed on Sunday. But, if you think for a moment that any president of this country is going to be able, even if he wanted to, to return us to that time, you're living in a fantasy world. The people wouldn't put up with such forced 'religious' practicies. It's not the leadership, du___, it's the people! Rule number 1: Man's heart is wicked! Who can know it. (repeat until understood and accepted).

Friend, I understand exactly what you're saying. What I don't understand is how you can possibly believe that our nation would ever turn back to those days of nostalgia that you miss. I remember going to worship services with my family as a child. Afterwards going home to a nice pot roast lunch or out to eat at the local diner. The days of 'Back to the Future'. But those days aren't coming back. They've been lived and now they're gone. We are marching inexorably to the last days when all the armies of the world will draw together to fight against the armies of Jesus and his righteousness. Things are going exactly as the Scriptures have foretold us that they will. Our electing a man like President Trump to the office of the President of the United States is just another piece in the puzzle of prophecy and I'm confident that in four years, as regards what you're seeking, we'll just be another four years closer to the precipice.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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seashale76

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When Trump says "Make America Great Again," he is, of course, speaking comparatively. Compared to bygone years, our current America is not great; that is, it is not as great as it once was.

Greatness for a nation is, of course, measurable and conforms to certain biblical standards. Although I do not believe we should apply to our nation all of the standards/expectations that we would normally apply to individual Christians, I do believe we can and should press forward in praying for and expecting a return of the US to its former Christianized condition.

Certain moments in history demonstrate that a society can be turned around fairly quickly if Christians not only hope for a spiritual/moral change, but also expect a rapid change and actively work for such change through available means and methods. The recent majority-conservative victory that has been called a "political miracle" is certainly indicative of such rapid change. I have noticed more Christians getting involved in bringing about such change in the US over the past 2 years or so. I do expect further positive change.

We are the Salt of the Earth; salt effects the entirety of that to which it is applied. We must stand in the gap for the President and our nation.

Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

God has chosen to work through the prayers of the saints. Oh Lord God Almighty, thank you for raising up more and more praying, bible-believing saints to intercede for the nations and America the Beautiful. Amen!
I think some people are in love with a romanticized America that never existed.
 
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brinny

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I try to imagine what it is like to be born in America. To be part of a nation whose military might is the biggest in the world. Who has helped out smaller countries not be bullied by bigger countries. A country whose President is the leader of the free world. I guess I might think other countries owed me. I guess I might feel very proud to be American.
Australia cant afford to be too proud. We need the goodwill of America, if we are attacked.

That's odd.

Nearly every Australian that i've seen expressing themselves and their feelings about their own country is very proud indeed of their own country, while at the same time voicing a disapproval and/or contemptuousness that Americans would have the audacity to do the same.

How ironic.
 
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brinny

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Some popular news commentators have described Trump's "America First" slogan as Hitleristic and dark.

I would like to help those individuals that are misconstruing Trump's "America First" statement.

A micro-representation of America: A parent stands within his/her domain (household). The parent has two children for whom he/she is responsible. The parent has a certain amount of ability and resources with which to take care of the house and children. In managing said resources and caring for the house and children, the parent necessarily takes his/her household and children first, not the neighbor's houses and children. This does not mean the parent will not do good to and for others as he or she is able. Likewise, the President stands as the head of America. He also has those who are within his domain of responsibility for whom he must provide and care for. He too has a certain amount of ability and resources with which to do so. He too must take his domain of responsibility (America) and those for whom he is responsible (US citizens) first, not the other nations.

In both real-life scenarios, it is self-evident that the established parent and President must think and behave consistent with the principle that the duties and responsibilities inherent in their positions are of primary consideration. This does not require selfishness or building up America regardless of the cost to other nations.

Of course, many liberals who despise Trump's presidency probably could understand the real meaning of the "America First" slogan if they would just stop filtering everything Trump says through certain preconceived notions.

Well said brother.

Joining you in prayer.

Amen.
 
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4x4toy

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Hi AACJ,

You really must be living in some sort of rose colored lab. Our nation has a former 'christianized condition'? Was that before or after we attacked and killed and corralled all of the native Americans that were here first? Was that God's hand that sent us over here to straighten out those 'barbaric' Indians? Was that before or after we felt free to hang or murder any black person for just the way they held their tails up high? Was that before or after all the fine church goin' men put on their white robes and hoods and went out to scare the begeezus out of the black community and hang men and women and children because they were merely unevolved monkeys? No, no, I get it. That was when all of America dressed up in their fine Sunday linen to go to worship services and then go sit down for their good home cooked Sunday dinner to talk about how terrible it was that Mrs. Shaughnessy brought that no good son or daughter of hers to worship service. Or how poor Fred looked with that wicked wife of his.

Yes, there was a time that most of America attended worship services and all the stores, except of course those wicked ones, were closed on Sunday. But, if you think for a moment that any president of this country is going to be able, even if he wanted to, to return us to that time, you're living in a fantasy world. The people wouldn't put up with such forced 'religious' practicies. It's not the leadership, du___, it's the people! Rule number 1: Man's heart is wicked! Who can know it. (repeat until understood and accepted).

Friend, I understand exactly what you're saying. What I don't understand is how you can possibly believe that our nation would ever turn back to those days of nostalgia that you miss. I remember going to worship services with my family as a child. Afterwards going home to a nice pot roast lunch or out to eat at the local diner. The days of 'Back to the Future'. But those days aren't coming back. They've been lived and now they're gone. We are marching inexorably to the last days when all the armies of the world will draw together to fight against the armies of Jesus and his righteousness. Things are going exactly as the Scriptures have foretold us that they will. Our electing a man like President Trump to the office of the President of the United States is just another piece in the puzzle of prophecy and I'm confident that in four years, as regards what you're seeking, we'll just be another four years closer to the precipice.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

You sound like "Throw-in-the-towel-Ted" .. Nostalgia ? How about a move of God revival where as a result of years of prayer God sends healing to our nation ? How about God sending a man that can stir up a nation and shine a light on corruption . Trump is nothing but possibly an instrument ..
 
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AACJ

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Hi AACJ,

You really must be living in some sort of rose colored lab. Our nation has a former 'christianized condition'? Was that before or after we attacked and killed and corralled all of the native Americans that were here first? Was that God's hand that sent us over here to straighten out those 'barbaric' Indians? Was that before or after we felt free to hang or murder any black person for just the way they held their tails up high? Was that before or after all the fine church goin' men put on their white robes and hoods and went out to scare the begeezus out of the black community and hang men and women and children because they were merely unevolved monkeys? No, no, I get it. That was when all of America dressed up in their fine Sunday linen to go to worship services and then go sit down for their good home cooked Sunday dinner to talk about how terrible it was that Mrs. Shaughnessy brought that no good son or daughter of hers to worship service. Or how poor Fred looked with that wicked wife of his.

Yes, there was a time that most of America attended worship services and all the stores, except of course those wicked ones, were closed on Sunday. But, if you think for a moment that any president of this country is going to be able, even if he wanted to, to return us to that time, you're living in a fantasy world. The people wouldn't put up with such forced 'religious' practicies. It's not the leadership, du___, it's the people! Rule number 1: Man's heart is wicked! Who can know it. (repeat until understood and accepted).

Friend, I understand exactly what you're saying. What I don't understand is how you can possibly believe that our nation would ever turn back to those days of nostalgia that you miss. I remember going to worship services with my family as a child. Afterwards going home to a nice pot roast lunch or out to eat at the local diner. The days of 'Back to the Future'. But those days aren't coming back. They've been lived and now they're gone. We are marching inexorably to the last days when all the armies of the world will draw together to fight against the armies of Jesus and his righteousness. Things are going exactly as the Scriptures have foretold us that they will. Our electing a man like President Trump to the office of the President of the United States is just another piece in the puzzle of prophecy and I'm confident that in four years, as regards what you're seeking, we'll just be another four years closer to the precipice.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Unfortunately your post contains errors, negative selectivity (serious misrepresentation through serious omission) and serious distortions. I won't attempt to provide corrections, as I just don't have the time for it now. However, I will remind you that America has remained the leader in attracting more immigrants than any other nation in the world. It also has retained its essential form of Government longer than any other nation in the world. Such facts demand an answer as to why this is so. These facts demonstrate that America is unique and exceptional among the nations of the world, and for good reason. That reason being it was largely founded and maintained upon biblical principles including the principle of intercessory prayer. One could go as far as saying that America was founded on the prayers of saints. I believe its deterioration has corresponded with a deterioration in Church action in regards to Church responsibility.

God bless, Ted.
 
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AACJ

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miamited

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Hi AACJ,

You responded:
However, I will remind you that America has remained the leader in attracting more immigrants than any other nation in the world. It also has retained its essential form of Government longer than any other nation in the world. Such facts demand an answer as to why this is so.

I already gave my answer to that phenomenon. America is great. Nearly since its inception America has been great. We'll see how this all rolls out. Immigrants want to come here and our national government has endured because America is great.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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SolomonVII

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Just gonna leave this here:
Trump has really sparked the imagination of people across the world. He has beome a cultural phenomena like no other in the world today.
 
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miamited

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Hi 4x4,

I agree!!!! I can't stop laughing at such righteous mockery. Netherlands first!!!!!. Go Netherlands. I like the part that the Netherlands think they have President Trump beat in tax evasion techniques.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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Ringo84

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Likewise, the President stands as the head of America. He also has those who are within his domain of responsibility for whom he must provide and care for. He too has a certain amount of ability and resources with which to do so. He too must take his domain of responsibility (America) and those for whom he is responsible (US citizens) first, not the other nations.

I think this philosophy is selfish and shortsighted. I don't disagree with it to a certain point, but there's a reason this country is a beacon of hope to the world: the US has traditionally stood up for human rights across the globe. Yes, there is pain in this country, but there are others in foreign countries suffering too - and far worse than anything currently experienced in the U.S. Do they not matter?

It's also hypocritical, since Republicans raked President Obama over the coals for largely staying out of the Syrian civil war. Now Trump comes in and says that we're going to focus on ourselves aove all else. I guess Republicans didn't care about the Syrians as much as they previously stated.
Ringo
 
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SolomonVII

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Trump is very similar to Bernie Sanders and the union hall crowd when it comes to American first policy and American industry.

This is no longer the Democrats and Republicans that your fathers and mothers voted for kids.
 
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AACJ

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I think this philosophy is selfish and shortsighted. I don't disagree with it to a certain point, but there's a reason this country is a beacon of hope to the world: the US has traditionally stood up for human rights across the globe. Yes, there is pain in this country, but there are others in foreign countries suffering too - and far worse than anything currently experienced in the U.S. Do they not matter?

It's also hypocritical, since Republicans raked President Obama over the coals for largely staying out of the Syrian civil war. Now Trump comes in and says that we're going to focus on ourselves aove all else. I guess Republicans didn't care about the Syrians as much as they previously stated.
Ringo
Mmmmmm..I don't think you have understood the comparison in the OP.

The US is on the verge of an economic disaster. Without Trump, its over.

It's difficult for a nation to bear up other nations when it's burning down. Of course the slogan is also referring to excessive money spent on nation building. You are aware of the the tremendous amount of wasted resources spent overseas since the 90's; all pretty much for nothing. So the slogan is also referencing waste. You have grossly simplified what the slogan represents.

There is also the issue of immigration and stopping the Islamization of the US. The slogan is a "slap to the face" of people who are ignorant of the tremendous danger our nation was in under the liberals and what constitutes a healthy nation.

Trump is not advocating for not helping other nations. He most certainly has made it clear that we will continue to help the world. You don't want to acknowledge that because you want everything he says to be cast in a negative light. He has clearly indicated in his speeches that we cannot continue to spend money and resources on other nations like we have when our own nation is on the path to ruination.

I believe you might also be confusing the standards applied to individual Christians with those applied to nations.This is especially important considering that America is not the praying nation it was 150 years ago, although that is now changing.

You have filtered the slogan through preconceived notions; as a result, you have misunderstood.

How long will people continue to misinterpret his words and underestimate the man and his supporters?
 
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Ringo84

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It's difficult for a nation to bear up other nations when it's burning down.

I don't know where you live, but my country isn't "burning down". Not even close.

the issue of immigration and stopping the Islamization of the US.

Islam isn't our enemy. Radical Muslims are our enemy, and while there may be legitimate concerns about the way foreign policy has played out over the past eight years, the way to solve that is not scapegoating Muslims.

when our own nation is on the path to ruination.

Our country is not on the "path of ruination" at all.

You have filtered the slogan through preconceived notions; as a result, you have misunderstood.

No, I don't think so. Trump made his intentions pretty clear throughout his campaign. He predicted doom and gloom over the country and promised that he was the only one who could fix it. He pointed his stubby little fingers at Mexicans and Muslims and blamed whatever ills this country is facing on them. His "America first" campaign is a return to nationalist claptrap from decades ago, and I don't have much respect for it.
Ringo
 
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miamited

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Hi all,

As we come up on yet another great football super bowl here in the U.S., I think it makes for a rather good analogy regarding this issue of national pride. God's word says that pride goeth before a fall. We always think of that, I think, in terms of individualistic pride exampled by someone, but the Scriptures don't actually give any indication that such limiting is called for in understanding and applying the proverb.

Whatever team wins the super bowl, there will be cheering in the streets and guys, and likely some girls, too, walking around with puffed out chests about being the best, etc. etc. There's a great sense of pride for the city of the winning team and lots of high fives and such for a few weeks. People walking around with this, "Yea, we're the best!" attitude.

Don't get me wrong. That's not all bad and certainly understandable, but...

On a national level regarding a nation's status and position among all the other nearly 300 nations of the world, such pride can be damaging. It engenders in a lot of its citizenry, this 'we're better than you' attitude.

But, people are just babies who were born wherever their parents lived and, in the eyes of God, all stand on equal ground as to their worth and dignity. As an entire group, everyone wants the same things out of the time and effort that they spend living their lives, wherever they live. They want to feel secure in their homes. They love their children and want what's best for them. They want their families to be fed and taken care of.

Now, surely, some national governments and societies have done what we might consider a 'better' job in allowing their people to build such lives. The freedom to express and work for greater goals and more stuff to fill the days of their lives upon the earth. Some of these things can be good and some bad. But, I fear that when we start, as a nation, rallying around this, 'we're better than you' attitude and measuring our self-worth in all the freedoms and the stuff that one nation has that another nation doesn't, that we're not really living as God wants us to live. When we start denigrating those of another nation who are honestly, on an individual basis for the most part, just trying to find a way and place to live better lives, as murderers and rapists, and just, somehow, lesser human beings than we are because of our great place among the nations, I don't think that's a godly value.

Now, I fully understand that the world will be like this and I fully appreciate their feelings and why they feel as they do and operate and live as they do, but...

We here on Christian Forums, in the 'christian only' section of the boards shouldn't be living the same as them. We shouldn't see and measure the world and its people with the same measuring rod. America first is a great battle cry for the people of the world, but I think that the people of God should rather be holding up a banner that says, "God first!" We should be more realistic and discerning in our judgments. Rather than calling out other people that just aren't doing things the way that we think they should be done, shouldn't classify those people as murderers and rapists. We should understand that they're really just people like you and me. Some are 'good' people in the ultimate goal that they're striving for. Some are not so much. But I honestly believe that the second group is a very, very, very small percentage of the total.

I lived through the Mariel boat lift of Cuba. Everyone said that Cuba had opened up its prisons and was actually 'sending' their prisoners to our shores. That really wasn't a fair assessment of what was actually happening. For the most part the people who came to our shores as a part of that time were good, decent people who were merely fleeing a government that had let them down. Sure, there were some people among them who may have had other motives for coming here in that group. But, by and large, the tens of thousands of people who came here in that time, were honest, decent people who still today live in the South Florida area and have made it their home and become reasonably productive members of society.

Personally, I wish they'd take more effort to learn the language, but that really doesn't have anything to do with their honesty and decency of heart as human beings. Many of them likely just got caught up in the frenzy of those days that the U.S. was allowing this to happen and that they could escape what they saw as a worthless life living in Cuba. They likely hadn't even considered the full consequences of what it really meant to leave their homes and country. The need to assimilate and learn and new language. But for the most part they did and now their children are just like your children and my children. They are natural born citizens of the U.S. Going to school and learning skills and holding down jobs and paying taxes and all the rest that goes on with just being a citizen of a country.

Likewise, we will get through these days and securing our borders is an important task. Especially with all the dangers of letting terrorists and the like within our borders. But a wall?

What's a wall really going to do? People desperate to come here will find a way over, under or around any wall. Taller ladders, deeper holes or zip lines to zoom in, a wall isn't going to stop the perceived problem. Drug traffickers will find a way around it. I mean, you'll still have open border crossing at the various check points and they'll just get better and better at hiding the illegal contraband in vehicles. They can now make cocaine into just about anything. It's likely possible that, much like in the Goldfinger movie, they could make an entire car out of parts made or filled with cocaine. Gas tanks that hold 20 gallons of gas would actually be made to hold several pounds of cocaine and just 5 gallons of gas. Just enough to make a fifty mile trip across the border.

So after spending all these billions of dollars building this wall, we'd still have to pay for folks to patrol the wall to catch people who came up with some way around or under it. We'd still have to pay a large force of people to man the border crossing points and check the cars and baggage and goods that are flowing across. Trust me, drug traffickers will get their drugs across that border so long as there is a market in this country by which they can make lots and lots of money.

Just my two cents worth.

God bless you all,
In Christ, ted
 
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SolomonVII

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I think this philosophy is selfish and shortsighted. I don't disagree with it to a certain point, but there's a reason this country is a beacon of hope to the world: the US has traditionally stood up for human rights across the globe. Yes, there is pain in this country, but there are others in foreign countries suffering too - and far worse than anything currently experienced in the U.S. Do they not matter?

It's also hypocritical, since Republicans raked President Obama over the coals for largely staying out of the Syrian civil war. Now Trump comes in and says that we're going to focus on ourselves aove all else. I guess Republicans didn't care about the Syrians as much as they previously stated.
Ringo
It is not hypocritical on behalf of Trump, because Trump has been one of the most scathing critics of the Bush policy.
Americans rejected the Bush policy with the election of Obama. They gave a clear signal that they had had enough of the neo-liberal/neo-con approach to foreign affairs and the pro-active involvements of solving the world problems of the Clintons and the Bushes. Americans ultimately have rejected Bush's approach as a failure, a thankless task, and at any rate more trouble than it was worth.
There are still elements of the Republican party that do want that kind of proactive world leadership, but they have been rejected in the last three presidential elections by the electorate as a whole, and most especially in their own house by Trump in the last Republican presidential bid.

The ideal of "America as a beacon on a hill" has lost the last three election cycles. The position adopted by the Democrats has carried the day against the Bushes and the Republican neo-cons.
Trump as POTUS is what winning that argument ultimately looks like. Trump IS Obama on foreign policy without even the pretense that Americans any longer really even care. Trump accepts the argument that it is no longer America's task to solve the world's problems over there. He goes one step further and insists on safe borders so that Americans don't have to solve them over here now too. Importing terrorism in the name of being a beacon on the hill is something that Trump simply rejects, just as such American exceptionalism has already been rejected repeatedly by Americans themselves.
 
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The Barbarian

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Some popular news commentators have described Trump's "America First" slogan as Hitleristic and dark.

It has a dark history. Hitler in the 1930s,supported the original "America First" movement.

Charles Lindberg was recruited as a "useful fool", and at "America First" rallies, gave speeches denouncing American support for Great Britain against Germans, blaming German Jews for the controversy.

In December 1941, Ingalls was charged by a grand jury with failing to register with the government as a paid Nazi agent, in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938. She had been receiving approximately $300 a month from Baron Ulrich von Gienanth (Ulrich Freiherr von Gienanth), the head of the Gestapo in the US, and, officially, second secretary of the German Embassy in Washington. During the trial it came out that von Gienanth had encouraged Ingalls's participation in the non-interventionist America First Committee, a significant embarrassment for that organization.
Laura Ingalls (aviator) - Wikipedia

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
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