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Amazing Grace

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Behold, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    What is "Amazing Grace"?

    Why did the believer write this incredible song?

    Its because they completely understood: The Cross.

    Its like this...

    God completed the entire process of Salvation, for each of the born again...by doing it Himself.
    = God's Grace.

    "God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to Complete it".

    What is that?
    That is God starting Salvation on the Cross by Blood and Death, and then giving it to us as the "gift of Righteousness", when we BELIEVE.
    "Faith is counted as Salvation, (Righteousness), as to be Righteous= is to be saved.

    But it gets BETTER.
    Its GETS AMAZING..

    Christ then completes our FAITH....for us also.
    Even this part, that we gave God, that He accepted, is finished by God.

    "Jesus is the Author and FINISHER of "our" Faith". Hebrews 12:2
    He does it, Himself.

    Salvation is ALL OF GOD.... from the Cross, to the giving of Righteousness, and finally Jesus even confirms and "authors" and "finishes" our FAITH.

    THAT IS = AMAZING GRACE.
    That is God doing it all, and we RECEIVE IT ALL, as a "GIFT".
    "The GIfT of Salvation".
     
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  2. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Did the Atonement start at the Cross?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth
    .


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)

    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History?

    .
     
  3. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The "Blood Atonement" is where you FIND the Cross.
    Everyone who is born again, is so, based on "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

    "without the Shedding of BLOOD, there is no REMISSION of sin".

    So, you find Salvation beginning, where you find the Blood of Jesus being offered to the World.

    The resurrection is PROOF That the Cross is the redemptive work of God..
    John 3:16
     
  4. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    You have deflected to a different issue than what I asked...
    therefore creating a STRAWMAN.


    I will re-post my ORIGINAL QUESTION and ask you to
    kindly NOT deflect, but to simply answer the question:
    Thank You.



    Did the Atonement start at the Cross?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth
    .


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)

    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History?

    .
     
  5. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Im flexible.
    If you want to believe that Salvation is not the Blood Atonement, im perfectly willing to let you continue to believe it, ..now that i have shown you the truth.
    Its not my job to make you believe.
    Its not my job to learn for you.
    Its only my calling to show you the Truth.
    I have.
     
  6. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    You have only DEFLECTED again.
    I did not challenge anything about a "blood Atonement"...
    so you have AGAIN created a STRAWMAN argument.


    If you are going to "teach" doctrine then you are responsible
    to provide SCRIPTURE to support your teaching.
    Otherwise you are only giving your "feelings".


    I am NOT asking you to "learn for me"... that is another
    (childish) STRAWMAN. It is not anybody's "calling" to make
    statements and to REFUSE to provide SCRIPTURE to support
    their "feelings" or their "private opinions".


    You say the Atonement started at the Cross.
    Here is my question again... if you simply
    cannot provide a (Biblical) answer then
    just admit that fact.


    Did the Atonement start at the Cross?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth.


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)


    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History?

    .
     
  7. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    BTW... there is no reason for you to SCREAM at me.
    Just be a Christian and provide Biblical support for what
    you teach.

    .
     
  8. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    "There is no remission of SIN, without the shedding of blood".

    So, did Jesus shed his blood in the Grave?

    What does this mean?
    It means i have answered you, and that is my final answer.
     
  9. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Was not screaming.
    I was writing my answers LARGER, as when i wrote them in this current text size, you didnt seem to comprehend.
    Now i realize the problem.
     
  10. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    .


    Fair enough... if your "final answer" is to NOT provide Biblical support
    for you "theories" then all can see that you HAVE no Biblical support
    and you are simply expressing your "feelings" or personal "opinion".


    But that is NOT "teaching"... and it is certainly NOT "preaching".
    So we have (at least) established that reality.


    And we have established that YOU are not capable or qualified
    to answer the simple question presented (which I re-post again)


    Did the Atonement start at the Cross?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth.


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)


    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History?


    .
     
  11. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The Blood Atonement is not a "theory".
    Also..
    "without the shedding of Blood, there is no Remission of sin", is a verse found in Hebrews Chapter 9, that is the answer to your question.

    God started Salvation, with the shed blood of Jesus.....
    You could also state as fact that God started salvation in His MIND before He even created the world.
    Ither way,....
    See the above verse and comment for clarification, regarding the Cross.
     
  12. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Again, you deflect from the question.
    I NEVER disputed that the shedding of blood was PART
    of the Atonement - so you saying "see Hebrews 9" means
    LESS than nothing. I asked a specific question about the
    Atonement of Christ. And it was a very SIMPLE question.


    Why can you not just answer the question instead of deflecting?
    If you cannot answer the question then just admit it and stop
    "preaching" about the Atonement until you can find some
    Biblical support for your "preaching".


    I did not dispute the Atonement included the shedding of Blood.
    So when you continue to REPEAT that position you are doing
    nothing... except embarrassing yourself.



    You now claim (above) that God STARTED salvation
    (and I assume you mean the Atonement) with the shed blood
    of Jesus.


    So here is my question about the Atonement or the START
    of salvation: And if you do not KNOW the answer to the
    question... maybe you should do some research to learn
    the answer before you presume to PREACH about it.


    Did the Atonement start at the Cross?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth.


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)


    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History?


    .
     
  13. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    His atonement for us .... His life (lived a sinless life) ... His ministry (taught the truth about God & glorified His name) ... His death (the shedding of His own blood) ... His resurrection and ascension back to the Father in glory.

    "He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty."
    and is our High Priest.

    John 17:20-26

    Prayer for All Believers

    20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

    24Father, I want those You have given Me to be with Me where I am, that they may see the glory You gave Me because You loved Me before the foundation of the world.25Righteous Father, although the world has not known You, I know You, and they know that You sent Me. 26And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.”

    Amazing Grace !!!!
     
  14. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    I have not "now claimed" anything, :)
    My Thread stated and i have told you a few times as well that the Cross is where the Blood was shed and this "started" the actual "gift of Righteousness" that is Salvation, that is the Grace of God.

    Think of it like this..
    Take Jesus off the Cross, no shed blood.
    Just have Him die of Old age and now He's in the Grave.
    3 days later, God raised Him up.
    What do you have?
    You have Lazarus.
    You have the little girl Jesus raised from the Dead.
    What dont you have?
    A CROSS.
    What dont you have?
    The BLOOD ATONEMENT.
    Do you understand this yet?
    Try going to Heaven without it, 5thKingdom.
    Try going to Heaven with only Jesus in the grave, then raised from the dead.
     
  15. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    I will not dispute whether you have been deflecting my question
    or not. Here is my question to you about the Atonement of Christ:


    When did the Atonement of Christ begin?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth
    .


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)


    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History? Or is this question BEYOND your ability
    to harmonize with Scripture?

    .
     
  16. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The Atonement began in the foreknowledge of God before the earth was created.
    It was defined many times in the OT.
    It was enacted literally, when Jesus was hanging on the Cross, as this was God's blood sacrifice of Himself for the sin of the World. John 3:16
    After death, and in the tomb, then Christ resurrected, we find proof that all this was Truth, and all this is The BLood Atonement.
     
  17. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Again, you deflected AWAY from my very specific question...
    showing that you CANNOT ANSWER my question. I would advise
    my (30 - 40 -50 yr old children) to simply be a man and admit that
    they cannot answer the question... but you live your life as you see
    fit. I will ask the SAME QUESTION again. If you deflect again then
    I will REPEAT my question until you are man enough to address it
    or admit you cannot answer it - or stop responding with "feelings".

    Finally, I suggest you consider whether you are embarrassing
    yourself EVERY TIME you intentionally deflect away from this
    very simple question. If you want to continue to act this way
    that is your decision... but people see deflection for what it is.


    When did the Atonement of Christ begin?
    Jesus said He would be three days and three nights
    in the "heart of the earth"


    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
    so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights
    in the heart of the earth
    .


    If Christ died on the Cross on Friday and rose on Sunday
    that would be three days (Friday, Saturday and Sunday)
    but only two nights (Friday night and Saturday night)


    How do you harmonize this apparent contradiction between
    Scripture and History? Or is this question BEYOND your ability
    to harmonize with Scripture?

    .
     
  18. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Ive answered you.
    If you are not understanding my answers then thats not really my issue.
    See, i can teach you, but i can't learn for you.

    If you would like to address my Thread's topic, im happy to reply.
    Otherwise, we're done here,


    B
     
  19. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is interesting to note that John Newton wrote "Amazing Grace" to celebrate being saved from a great storm at sea. He submitted it to a hymn writing contest. Ironically even though he had already converted to Christianity, he continued as the captain of a slave trading ship for several more years. I wonder how the slaves felt being chained in the stinking hold of that ship during that great storm?
     
  20. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    God often uses the worst type sinner to perform the most powerful ministry, on His behalf.
    For example, the Apostle Paul.

    This guy, Saul, before the name change, was a Jesus hating, Christian killing machine.
    He does not state that he himself burned them, or sawed them in half, or boiled them in hot Oil, but he states that he was "consenting" to their "death".
    So, what does God do for the "chief of sinners":, ...which by the way is Paul's claim that the type sinner he was, a Christian KILLER, was the "chief" of all types......
    Well, God choose this guy to show US that God's Amazing GRACE can transform the worst into the best. God can take the most wretched person and apply His Amazing Grace and Amazing they will become.
    = Paul.
    He ended up writing 73% of the New Testament, and gave the Church nearly all church doctrine.
    Peter said of Paul's letters that they were equal to the Torah. That is to say that even before we had a NT, Peter , in the day of the Apostles, already understood that Paul's letters were SCRIPTURE.

    Amazing what the Grace of God can do in a person's life.
     
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