Am I The Only One

SeventyOne · Aug 27, 2020

Agallagher said:
Thank you for letting me @ you, will you take time to read this short summary of my belief, though my mind may never change on it.

My belief is that God will be able to have his will met which is to have all to come the knowledge of the truth about his Son.

(Also believe you can build your spiritual body up through faith, reading word of God, prayer, forgiveness, kindness, peace, patience, love, and building the spirit that resides in you instead of giving into the flesh now while you are on earth.)

That people even after this life have a chance to be with God, though however it seems that people after this life would be resurrected outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem, which is not completely separation from God just the unbelievers are outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem. (Rev22)

These gates never shut out anyone, so would it be possible even after this life as a person who is resurrected in a corrupted spiritual body that is given by God, able to turn and see the light from the Heavenly Jerusalem? To be able to come to the truth ?

Speaking on this morning with a friend, he calls me naive, and ignorant. It hurts to have different belief yet be seen as naive and ignorant from someone you just desire to get along with.

Though why should, it be that I question God and his judgement on people and their judgement being resurrected to life, or to condemnation/damnation.

To have them outside of the city, to be still alive at least to some degree or another, in a spiritual body that is given and pleasing to God not to be able to seek and notice the failures and come turning back willingly towards God.

God is love after all, and also justice (would justice serve to the decision of the type of resurrection?)

I think a lot of this type of thinking stems from people not wanting to see other people hurt (which isn't a bad thing in itself), but then imposing those thoughts and desires back on God and assuming that He must also think and feel the same way.

But even just looking at a subset of people, those who take the mark in Revelation 14:9-11. They are said their torment will be in the presence of the Lord and His angels forever. However you decide to justify your position in your mind, if it doesn't allow for this situation, then it just simply isn't biblical.

Another sobering thought. Since we are currently accelerating into the time of the Tribulation, all the people it's referencing as those who take the mark, are alive right now. We likely pass them in the aisles of the stores or even say good morning to them at breakfast. Let that sink in on how real of a threat it is. Don't just blow it off.

solid_core · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

Belief in something such specific is a strong word. But we can have hope that many things will be much better than we can now understand.

For all.

Chris V++ · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

I haven't read all the responses but wanted to point out the Eastern Orthodox believe it's possible for unbelievers to be saved even after death, but not after the Final Judgement. I hope they are right. It's not the same as Universalism since not everyone will repent even after death and in torment.

WanderedHome · Aug 27, 2020

Goodhuman said:
Matthew 5:26

Brother, read from verse 21 to understand the full context. This verse is referring to bringing your gifts before the altar and reconciling with your brother, between the two of you, rather than going before the unmerciful judges of the world who will demand the full payment, which you cannot afford.

If we relate this to our spiritual state, it is saying we cannot afford the payment for our sins because the payment required by death is our very life. This is why Jesus died and rose from the dead, as the paschal hymn goes, to "conquer death by death and upon those in the tombs bestow life." Jesus is a merciful Judge who pays your penalty with His own Body and Blood... But of course, that doesn't mean everyone will be saved in the end. We have to repent of our sins and put our faith in Him.

bèlla · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020,

When the bible is silent I avoid filling in the gaps. Not knowing is an important aspect of faith in my opinion. I must be able to acknowledge uncertainty on difficult subjects and rely on God’s character as my guide.

This doesn’t mean I make suppositions or spend time pondering this and that. It is possible this falls within the realm of higher things that aren’t my concern. In either case, judgment is His domain and falls outside my jurisdiction.

Paul’s military remarks come to mind. Each soldier has a place and sphere of influence within the army. The private wouldn’t concern himself with the general’s job. Irrespective of his opinions, its beyond his paygrade.

There’s enough to unpack that God revealed. Taking on the topics He didn’t address often leads to distraction and error. I focus on the task placed before me and only that.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

mlepfitjw · Aug 27, 2020

friend of said:
The verse says that no unclean thing shall pass through them. Reprobates are unclean

Thank you for your response, @friend of. Maybe the fire of God can clean them then, a fire the purifies. It's possible the ones who entered the into the city, put off their former self and washed their robes to the truth of God.

SeventyOne said:
I think a lot of this type of thinking stems from people not wanting to see other people hurt (which isn't a bad thing in itself), but then imposing those thoughts and desires back on God and assuming that He must also think and feel the same way.

But even just looking at a subset of people, those who take the mark in Revelation 14:9-11. They are said their torment will be in the presence of the Lord and His angels forever. However you decide to justify your position in your mind, if it doesn't allow for this situation, then it just simply isn't biblical.

Another sobering thought. Since we are currently accelerating into the time of the Tribulation, all the people it's referencing as those who take the mark, are alive right now. We likely pass them in the aisles of the stores or even say good morning to them at breakfast. Let that sink in on how real of a threat it is. Don't just blow it off.

Thank you for your response, @SeventyOne.

Due to my belief, you are right, it allows the skipping over of Revelation 14, though I believe all of these things have done passed already. Which only leaves Revelation 22 as the final statement and end result for all.

May grace, peace, mercy from God our Father and Lord Yeshua Christ, thank you both again for your response.

GirdYourLoins · Aug 27, 2020

Ii believe that everyone is given the chance to accept Jesus as their Saviour. If they do accept Him, at their judgement they are guilty but the price has already been paid by Jesus. If they have rejected Jesus they are still guilty but they have to pay the price themselves which is eternity completely separated from God.

April_Rose · Aug 27, 2020

JacksBratt said:
I mean at what point do you draw a line and say.. you pass... you fail?

I don't know,.. I'm not God so I don't try to be and I don't judge anyone of where they will spend eternity,.. but due to the fact that there will be a judgement,.. obviously there will be judging going on with the unbelievers. Whether or not they will be condemned automatically or there will be a lot of judging going on first is not my call to make. I'm just saying what I believe and to the person who said that I was creating my own religion,.. that's wrong. I believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again three days later for my sins,.. so the basic Christian beliefs I believe as well,.. I just have unorthodox beliefs at the same time.

Der Alte · Aug 27, 2020

Goodhuman said:
Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. That means they can be saved too, after they pay the last cent for their sins.

In the Bible the grave/hell is never called "prison" and "hell/the grave" is never called prison.
If Jesus' ministry was to save the dead in the grave/hell then it was a failure because only a few that is 8 were saved and they were alive not dead when they were saved.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In Luk 4:18-19 Jesus tells us what His ministry was. It did not include speaking to the dead in the grave/hell.

Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

kdm1984 · Aug 27, 2020

Not me, but my dad believes this.

Friedrich Rubinstein · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I just don't believe that a loving God would damn somebody to Hell just for simply not believing if they still follow all of His commandments by loving each other, being truthful, giving to the poor, etc,..

The only thing we know with absolute certainty is that God's judgement will be just and fair. If someone deserves to go to heaven then they will go to heaven. I guess this is where your idea is coming from?

Nevertheless I'd like to hear your opinion on the biblical teaching that Jesus is the only way to God. Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through me", and that's when I personally have trouble saying that someone will go to heaven who doesn't accept Jesus. I tend to believe though that God will move the heart of every person who is "good enough" to accept Him before death.

The other verse that I'd like to hear your opinion about is Mt 7:21-23 where Jesus says: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

This seems quite strict to me, in the sense that even so-called "Christians" are not saved. What do you think about it?

April_Rose · Aug 27, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
The only thing we know with absolute certainty is that God's judgement will be just and fair. If someone deserves to go to heaven then they will go to heaven. I guess this is where your idea is coming from?

Nevertheless I'd like to hear your opinion on the biblical teaching that Jesus is the only way to God. Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through me", and that's when I personally have trouble saying that someone will go to heaven who doesn't accept Jesus. I tend to believe though that God will move the heart of every person who is "good enough" to accept Him before death.

The other verse that I'd like to hear your opinion about is Mt 7:21-23 where Jesus says: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"

This seems quite strict to me, in the sense that even so-called "Christians" are not saved. What do you think about it?

Actually I have multiple opinions on this. First of all,.. without the cross nobody could enter Heaven. Let me make that perfectly clear. Second of all,.. that's what I think Jesus means that nobody can get to the Father except through His sacrifice. Thirdly,.. rejecting Christ and just having different beliefs I do believe are two separate things. In one sense you're cursing Him out and saying that you hate Him,.. and in the other sense you just believe differently. Again,.. how do we actually know Jesus said word for word what was written in the Bible? After all He didn't write it down Himself and haven't you ever heard of the game telephone before?

Friedrich Rubinstein · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Actually I have multiple opinions on this. First of all,.. without the cross nobody could enter Heaven. Let me make that perfectly clear. Second of all,.. that's what I think Jesus means that nobody can get to the Father except through His sacrifice. Thirdly,.. rejecting Christ and just having different beliefs I do believe are two separate things. In one sense you're cursing Him out and saying that you hate Him,.. and in the other sense you just believe differently. Again,.. how do we actually know Jesus said word for word what was written in the Bible? After all He didn't write it down Himself and haven't you ever heard of the game telephone before?

You are right, it all depends on whether we believe that the Bible is 1:1 God's word or not.

The Bible says about itself "the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver purified in a crucible, like gold refined seven times", and as a scientist I trust the Bible more than myself because history and archaeology have shown that more than 3000 prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled. But in the end it is God's spirit who shows us the truth.

May God bless you and reveal it to you <3

April_Rose · Aug 27, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
You are right, it all depends on whether we believe that the Bible is 1:1 God's word or not.

The Bible says about itself "the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver purified in a crucible, like gold refined seven times", and as a scientist I trust the Bible more than myself because history and archaeology have shown that more than 3000 prophecies of the Bible have been fulfilled. But in the end it is God's spirit who shows us the truth.

May God bless you and reveal it to you <3

Thank you and may God bless you as well and for the record I trust Jesus and I'm not calling Him a liar,.. and I believe the Bible to be mostly true,.. it's just the people who wrote it down not sure I can trust them one hundred percent as I do Christ,.. (Or I would like to anyways,.. still getting there honestly, but trust Him a LOT more than I used to. )

plain jayne · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Thank you and may God bless you as well and for the record I trust Jesus and I'm not calling Him a liar,.. and I believe the Bible to be mostly true,.. it's just the people who wrote it down not sure I can trust them one hundred percent as I do Christ,.. (Or I would like to anyways,.. still getting there honestly, but trust Him a LOT more than I used to. )

Trust is a growth experience. The deeper the relationship with anyone - a loved one or Christ, the more the trust deepens over time.

I believe Bible 100% - all or nothing. For me, it's all. As for mere men writing it down - that's true. They were the ones who picked up the writing utensil and did the physical writing.

But the Bible says of itself that it is God-breathed and Holy Spirit inspired. These men wrote down the words that the Holy Spirit guided them to. No other book is like that.

April_Rose · Aug 27, 2020

plain jayne said:
Trust is a growth experience. The deeper the relationship with anyone - a loved one or Christ, the more the trust deepens over time.

I believe Bible 100% - all or nothing. For me, it's all. As for mere men writing it down - that's true. They were the ones who picked up the writing utensil and did the physical writing.

But the Bible says of itself that it is God-breathed and Holy Spirit inspired. These men wrote down the words that the Holy Spirit guided them to. No other book is like that.

Look,.. all I care about is that everybody knowing that I still love the Lord, and I still love all of you as brothers and sisters in Christ,.. and even though I believe a bit differently than a lot of you that we can still be friends.

Friedrich Rubinstein · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Thank you and may God bless you as well and for the record I trust Jesus and I'm not calling Him a liar,.. and I believe the Bible to be mostly true,.. it's just the people who wrote it down not sure I can trust them one hundred percent as I do Christ,.. (Or I would like to anyways,.. still getting there honestly, but trust Him a LOT more than I used to. )

A good verse for you might be 2 Tim 3:16 then: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work".

plain jayne · Aug 27, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Look,.. all I care about is that everybody knowing that I still love the Lord, and I still love all of you as brothers and sisters in Christ,.. and even though I believe a bit differently than a lot of you that we can still be friends.

Oh, my - I never said we couldn't be friends. I never meant to imply that.

You shared your beliefs - I shared mine. No quarrel in that.

April_Rose · Aug 27, 2020

plain jayne said:
Oh, my - I never said we couldn't be friends. I never meant to imply that.

You shared your beliefs - I shared mine. No quarrel in that.

Good. Cause there's plenty of seats for us ladies in my version of Heaven. *Hums Pony*

throughfiierytrial · Aug 27, 2020

Af

Rose2020 said:
I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

After the Judgement Day? If that's what you mean, then NO that I do not believe.

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