Am I saved?

[bugkiller]

There is a lot of fluff here that I will cut through to get to the main point.

Here is what you said.



If sin is the transgression of the Law and the Spirit convicts of sin it goes without saying that the Spirit uses the Law as a foundation of what sin is.

The law of God or the ten commandments as the entire law of God. The law (ten commandments) was added (annexed) about because of trangression (sin) Gal 3:19. So the argument that the Siprit uses the ten commandments as a foundation does not hold water. To further support my claim I refer you to Jer 31:31, 32 which you seem to be very allergic to. It says: not according to the covenant that I made with with their fathers and Deu 4:13; 5:1-5 identify that covenant as the ten commandments.

All throughout the new testament God says He will write His Law in our hearts and minds. This is how the Spirit is able to convict and change the inward man. Paul understood this when he said he rejoyced in the Law according to the inward man. We will never be without sin until Jesus comes back this is why God says 1 John 1:9.

Yes it does and it does not say the ten commandments any where in the NT. I think you have the occasional slip up mixed up with habitual (life style) sin.

The Law was meant to bring life but instead it brought death because of sin. Take away the sin through the work of Jesus and you too will rejoyce in the Law.

I see where the law brings death, but I don't find a scripture that says it brings life. Don't forget that it only takes one slip to bring death. Sin always requires death either by the one committed or a substitute.

When God writes His Law in our hearts and minds it will manifest in out lives as love for God and love for neighbor.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Your statement is correct as it reads. I notice you say God's law not the ten commandments. And yes there is a difference. Gal 3:19 and Jer 31:31, 32 so state.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

The law (ten commandments) was added (annexed) about because of trangression (sin)

So what you're saying is that before the Law was written on stone people were already violating it? Praise God you might be seeing the light.

The Law was add because of transgression.

God takes what we should have been doing and writes it in stone and then attatches a curse to it for disobedience.

Under the new covenant He takes away the curse, which came as a result of disobedience and then He writes that very same Law on our hearts.

Do you see how easy this is to understand.

Praise God you got it, now go preach the good news...

 

[bugkiller]

So what you're saying is that before the Law was written on stone people were already violating it? Praise God you might be seeing the light.

The Law was add because of transgression.

God takes what we should have been doing and writes it in stone and then attatches a curse to it for disobedience.

Under the new covenant He takes away the curse, which came as a result of disobedience and then He writes that very same Law on our hearts.

Do you see how easy this is to understand.

Praise God you got it, now go preach the good news...

Before you get to excited, you might want to read my whole post, slowly. You didn't even copy or quote to the first period.

Now if I could get it to work like Abraham. That would be wonderful because I could do that in my own sinful fleshly nature.

Say I am also wondering why I should live by the ten commandments anyway because I can't be punished for disobedience the way you state it.


bugkiller

 

[k4c]

Before you get to excited, you might want to read my whole post, slowly. You didn't even copy or quote to the first period.

Now if I could get it to work like Abraham. That would be wonderful because I could do that in my own sinful fleshly nature.

Say I am also wondering why I should live by the ten commandments anyway because I can't be punished for disobedience the way you state it.

bugkiller

The rest of the post is off in light of the fact that the Law was added because of transgression.

Any natural man knows that stealing, lying, murder and so on is wrong because we've all broken at least one of the last six and if you think you haven't Jesus raises the bar by saying if you've lust in your heart you've broken one. This surely proves we all need a Savior.

Now, when we come to Jesus and come alive to God we will begin to see not only the last six, but also, the first four.

If man keeps only the last six he only becomes moral in which man receives the glory but if we keep the first four God receives the glory. Do you see why all ten are important for those who desire to worship God in spirit and in truth.

In the new covenant it's all about relationship. The warning in the new covenant is to be carefull of the deceitfulness of sin that it don't harden your heart.

The hard heart is that broken relationship with God.

Do we still sin under the new covenant? Of course but we don't let it have dominion over us.

Here is the process by which we spiritually die because of sin.

James 1:14-15 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

When we sin we are not yet dead we can 1 John 1:9.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why can we do this in the new covenant?

Because we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Do see how simple this is? To say the Ten Commandments are done away with throws a wrench in the whole plan of God to have a people He can call His own who are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

This was God's origianl plan through the old covenant to have a people who would obey His commandments.

Exodus 19:5-6 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. `And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'

So now He's going to write them in our heart and give us His Spirit to cause us to obey them.

Ezekiel 36:26-28 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Keeping the commandments is the only way to manifest a godly life and become a holy nation and a royal priesthood in the sight of God and man.

 

[VictorC]

Under the new covenant He takes away the curse, which came as a result of disobedience and then He writes that very same Law on our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates a devotion to error.

 

[k4c]

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates after it has been shown to you demonstrates a devotion to error.

Romans 2:15 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Let's continue reading.

Romans 2:20-23 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth. Yes, you teach others--then why don't you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal--do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery--do you do it? You say, "Don't pray to idols,'' and then make money your god instead. You are so proud of knowing God's laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them.

Yes, the Gentile who do not have the written Law do things contained in the written Law. It doesn't say they obey all the Law it just says they do things contained in the Law. What you miss is the fact that the natural man understands and can keep the last six commandments but it takes a born again believer to understand and keep the first four.

 

[VictorC]

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates after it has been shown to you demonstrates a devotion to error.

Romans 2:15 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise.

Let's continue reading.

Romans 2:20-23 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth. Yes, you teach others--then why don't you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal--do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery--do you do it? You say, "Don't pray to idols,'' and then make money your god instead. You are so proud of knowing God's laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them.

This addresses the Jews, who had received the covenant from Mount Sinai, and dishonor God by their breaking of that covenant, which was the ten commandments.

Yes, the Gentile who do not have the written Law do things contained in the written Law. It doesn't say they obey all the Law it just says they do things contained in the Law. What you miss is the fact that the natural man understands and can keep the last six commandments but it takes a born again believer to understand and keep the first four.

But you just conceded that the Gentile having the working of the law in their heart disqualifies it from being a new covenant promise, and the Jews violation of the covenant dishonored God. The condemnation of both parties during the tenure of the first covenant was assured, as Romans 2:12 states "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

Since you have conceded Scripture's affirmation that the covenant from Mount Sinai isn't written into anyone's heart and mind, do you have an interest in knowing what God's "My law" refers to?

 

[k4c]

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise.

This addresses the Jews, who had received the covenant from Mount Sinai, and dishonor God by their breaking of that covenant, which was the ten commandments.

But you just conceded that the Gentile having the working of the law in their heart disqualifies it from being a new covenant promise, and the Jews violation of the covenant dishonored God. The condemnation of both parties during the tenure of the first covenant was assured, as Romans 2:12 states "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

Since you have conceded Scripture's affirmation that the covenant from Mount Sinai isn't written into anyone's heart and mind, do you have an interest in knowing what God's "My law" refers to?

You seem to miss the fact that they violated the old covenant, which was instituted at Mt.Siani but the Law was before Mt.Sinai and will continue after Mt.Sinai. As a matter of fact, in the new covenant God will write it your heart, if you let Him.

 

[VictorC]

You seem to miss the fact that they violated the old covenant, which was instituted at Mt.Siani but the Law was before Mt.Sinai and will continue after Mt.Sinai. As a matter of fact, in the new covenant God will write it your heart, if you let Him.

You have already conceded this to be an error when you admitted that Romans 2:15 refers to the ten commandments.

 

[k4c]

You have already conceded this to be an error when you admitted that Romans 2:15 refers to the ten commandments.

That's your opinion which is not only wrong but it's your entire foundation for why you believe what you believe.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

 

[VictorC]

That's your opinion which is not only wrong but it's your entire foundation for why you believe what you believe.

No, it was your concession, written by you and posted from your own keyboard. Did you lie to me?

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

We already have another thread where this question has been addressed directly. In that thread we concluded that it is necessary to be able to break those commandments, you admitted that you do, and yet you claim to be a new covenant Christian.

 

[k4c]

What happen VictorC?

You stopped by but you didn't reply.

Are your true colors beginning to show?

All you have to do is repent and receive the forgiveness of your sins through the blood of Christ and allow God to write His Law on your heart. When this happens and only when this happens will you have no problem answering my question.

Here it is a again for your convenience.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

 

[VictorC]

What happen VictorC?

You stopped by but you didn't reply.

Are your true colors beginning to show?

All you have to do is repent and receive the forgiveness of your sins through the blood of Christ and allow God to write His Law on your heart. When this happens and only when this happens will you have no problem answering my question.

Here it is a again for your convenience.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

What was wrong with the reply already written? Did you lie to me? Are you bearing false witness now? Are you repeating the same fabrication you already conceded to be an error?

Inquiring minds seek these answers...

 

[k4c]

What was wrong with the reply already written? Did you lie to me? Are you bearing false witness now? Are you repeating the same fabrication you already conceded to be an error?

Inquiring minds seek these answers...

It's still here when you're ready.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

 

[VictorC]

It still here when you're ready.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

What was wrong with the reply already written? Did you lie to me? Are you bearing false witness now? Are you repeating the same fabrication you already conceded to be an error?

Inquiring minds seek these answers...
And note that you haven't answered my post:

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates after it has been shown to you demonstrates a devotion to error.

Romans 2:15 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise.

Let's continue reading.

Romans 2:20-23 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth. Yes, you teach others--then why don't you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal--do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery--do you do it? You say, "Don't pray to idols,'' and then make money your god instead. You are so proud of knowing God's laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them.

This addresses the Jews, who had received the covenant from Mount Sinai, and dishonor God by their breaking of that covenant, which was the ten commandments.

Yes, the Gentile who do not have the written Law do things contained in the written Law. It doesn't say they obey all the Law it just says they do things contained in the Law. What you miss is the fact that the natural man understands and can keep the last six commandments but it takes a born again believer to understand and keep the first four.

But you just conceded that the Gentile having the working of the law in their heart disqualifies it from being a new covenant promise, and the Jews violation of the covenant dishonored God. The condemnation of both parties during the tenure of the first covenant was assured, as Romans 2:12 states "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

Since you have conceded Scripture's affirmation that the covenant from Mount Sinai isn't written into anyone's heart and mind, do you have an interest in knowing what God's "My law" refers to?

 

[k4c]

What was wrong with the reply already written? Did you lie to me? Are you bearing false witness now? Are you repeating the same fabrication you already conceded to be an error?

Inquiring minds seek these answers...
And note that you haven't answered my post:

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise.

This addresses the Jews, who had received the covenant from Mount Sinai, and dishonor God by their breaking of that covenant, which was the ten commandments.

But you just conceded that the Gentile having the working of the law in their heart disqualifies it from being a new covenant promise, and the Jews violation of the covenant dishonored God. The condemnation of both parties during the tenure of the first covenant was assured, as Romans 2:12 states "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

Since you have conceded Scripture's affirmation that the covenant from Mount Sinai isn't written into anyone's heart and mind, do you have an interest in knowing what God's "My law" refers to?

I don't know how many times I have to answer you. I think you misunderstand what a covenant consists of. There are the terms of a covenant and the content of a covenant. You can have a new covenant with the same content but with different terms and since the entire new testament and the old testament speak of God writing His Law in our hearts and minds leaves no doubt that the content has stayed the same.

Now, before we go any further please share with the world where you stand on this question.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

 

[bugkiller]

It's still here when you're ready.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

I'll take a stab at your question. If depends on which covenant you are under. One can not violate a covenant that has no jusirdiction or dominion over them. So if you are part of Israel and party to their covenant given by God to them at Sinai the answer would be no. The only way into that covenant and be obligaed to it for a male is by circumcision Ex 12:48. If not you have no part of the covenant issued at Sinai.

However the Christian is not part of Israel or spiritual Israel and is not obligated to any part of the covenant issued at Sinai. Jesus said come to Him not Israel. The NT clearly shows a new (different) covenant with different content in the covenant. The NT clearly show the Mt Sinai covenant is dead and the Christian is not obligated to it. There are similarities as you well note. These similarities are coincidental just as some of the laws of one state may read exactly as the laws of another state. They are different laws in different covenants and even go by different names. So a major difference for us is the fact that the 4th of the OC (ten commandments) is not found in the NC anywhere. So the answer to your question for the Christian is a very loud resounding YES the Christian can disregard the ten commandments, they have no jurisdiction or dominion over us! There can be no violation for the Christian violating the ten commandments specifically the 4th. The other commandments have a reference in the NC and violation of those similar commands would be sin.

So have I answered your trap question? I think so.

bugkiller

 

[VictorC]

I don't know how many times I have to answer you.

Once is considered sufficient, but once is usually not given by you. You still have not answered my post to you:

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates after it has been shown to you demonstrates a devotion to error.

Romans 2:15 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise.

Let's continue reading.

Romans 2:20-23 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth. Yes, you teach others--then why don't you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal--do you steal? You say it is wrong to commit adultery--do you do it? You say, "Don't pray to idols,'' and then make money your god instead. You are so proud of knowing God's laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them.

This addresses the Jews, who had received the covenant from Mount Sinai, and dishonor God by their breaking of that covenant, which was the ten commandments.

Yes, the Gentile who do not have the written Law do things contained in the written Law. It doesn't say they obey all the Law it just says they do things contained in the Law. What you miss is the fact that the natural man understands and can keep the last six commandments but it takes a born again believer to understand and keep the first four.

But you just conceded that the Gentile having the working of the law in their heart disqualifies it from being a new covenant promise, and the Jews violation of the covenant dishonored God. The condemnation of both parties during the tenure of the first covenant was assured, as Romans 2:12 states "For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law".

Since you have conceded Scripture's affirmation that the covenant from Mount Sinai isn't written into anyone's heart and mind, do you have an interest in knowing what God's "My law" refers to?

I think you misunderstand what a covenant consists of. There are the terms of a covenant and the content of a covenant. You can have a new covenant with the same content but with different terms and since the entire new testament and the old testament speak of God writing His Law in our hearts and minds leaves no doubt that the content has stayed the same.

You already conceded that the ten commandments isn't written into anyone's heart or mind as a new covenant promise, and that conclusion is also compliant with Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 stating that God's "My law" that is written into our hearts and minds isn't according to the covenant from Mount Sinai.

Your statement "the content has stayed the same" contradicts not only Scripture, but also contradicts what you have conceded. This is an important distinction that you can't overlook.

Now, before we go any further please share with the world where you stand on this question.

Can you answer me this one question? Please use a yes or a no answer.

Do you believe it's okay to break any one of the Ten Commandments as a new covenant Christian and have no problem with God?

This is a switch and bait that was the basis of a thread from months ago, in which you conceded that it is okay to be in violation of the ten commandments and yet enjoy a peaceful relationship with God, Who has given us His promise: Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

The ambition you show in promoting love for one another is one I find no fault in, and I tend to agree with you for the most part. But there are a couple of sticky issues that I see in this paragraph.

The commandment to love God (Deuteronomy 6:5, repeated in Matthew 22:37) doesn't appear in the new covenant anywhere. We have a new commandment to love one another (John 13:34) that replaces a similar one from Leviticus 19:18, and it is affirmed as a new covenant commandment in 1 John 3:23. But 1 John 4:19 affirms "We love Him because He first loved us", and a commandment to love God was apparently considered unnecessary by virtue of its absence.

Also, God's "My law" written into our hearts and minds isn't according to the covenant from Mount Sinai, and Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 make that clear.

I haven't seen you here before, and I extend a hearty welcome to your contributions.

Thank you. I visit all denominational areas of this site. I am just a Christian trying to obey Jesus Christ with my family. My wife is SDA member from the Philippines. I go with her to her church.

I read Romans Chapter 14 and a little around that area, just before Christmas, and couldn't leave it for weeks (I read it over and over each day); it was as if God wanted me to understand about respecting all Christians and not promoting friction or disharmony (in any church). It took awhile, but I now understand his will for us. With respecting other Christian's faith comes love and obedience to "We have a new commandment to love one another (John 13:34)". I hadn't been respecting others before. I was arguing and trying to prove that my understanding was right over them. I won't forget Romans Chapter 14 and around that area of the Bible and its slow impact over my stubborn nature. I now try to sidestep my finer view points for just presenting the Gospel itself and the teachings of Christ Jesus (as all Christians really must believe and accept). The huge array of the Christian denomination's beliefs to me is a mess, but to God it has a purpose for his will. Just like loving enemies, we are told to do this and do, as it is with our family of faith. We show the light of God's will through the teachings of Christ Jesus by understanding & obeying them.

I am now trying to not argue or confront personal views (or denomination ones), just to keeping pointing towards this will of God's through Jesus alone. My personal views are just personal between myself and God. Whether I am weak or strong in them, I want to listen to Christ Jesus alone to observe his commands such as the new one (John 13:34). When I keep quiet about my personal differences and views, I am able to promote the teachings and words of Jesus Christ's ministry, the Gospel. I don't get knocked around and fall into the pits of arguments. I seem to be able to walk around such pits without falling into them. I maintain Christ's peace within me and am able to especially keep his new commandment.

Thank you for welcoming me. I travel all over Christian forums and one other website "VOMGROUPS.COM" I seek God and promote his will through his son Jesus Christ. My understanding grows some all the time.

Have a wonderful day in the Lord.

 

[VictorC]

Thank you. I visit all denominational areas of this site. I am just a Christian trying to obey Jesus Christ with my family. My wife is SDA member from the Philippines. I go with her to her church.

I read Romans Chapter 14 and a little around that area, just before Christmas, and couldn't leave it for weeks (I read it over and over each day); it was as if God wanted me to understand about respecting all Christians and not promoting friction or disharmony (in any church). It took awhile, but I now understand his will for us. With respecting other Christian's faith comes love and obedience to "We have a new commandment to love one another (John 13:34)". I hadn't been respecting others before. I was arguing and trying to prove that my understanding was right over them. I won't forget Romans Chapter 14 and around that area of the Bible and its slow impact over my stubborn nature. I now try to sidestep my finer view points for just presenting the Gospel itself and the teachings of Christ Jesus (as all Christians really must believe and accept). The huge array of the Christian denomination's beliefs to me is a mess, but to God it has a purpose for his will. Just like loving enemies, we are told to do this and do, as it is with our family of faith. We show the light of God's will through the teachings of Christ Jesus by understanding & obeying them.

I am now trying to not argue or confront personal views (or denomination ones), just to keeping pointing towards this will of God's through Jesus alone. My personal views are just personal between myself and God. Whether I am weak or strong in them, I want to listen to Christ Jesus alone to observe his commands such as the new one (John 13:34). When I keep quiet about my personal differences and views, I am able to promote the teachings and words of Jesus Christ's ministry, the Gospel. I don't get knocked around and fall into the pits of arguments. I seem to be able to walk around such pits without falling into them. I maintain Christ's peace within me and am able to especially keep his new commandment.

Thank you for welcoming me. I travel all over Christian forums and one other website "VOMGROUPS.COM" I seek God and promote his will through his son Jesus Christ. My understanding grows some all the time.

Have a wonderful day in the Lord.

Thanks!
I tend to agree with all of the statements you contributed. Each of us has a differing emphasis, and mine is driven by an observation made many years ago. I didn't come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ until fairly late, and one of the first things I noticed is that His body lacks the unity that Scripture encourages as our goal. We see that goal mentioned a number of times in Ephesians 4:

1 ¶ I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended" ----what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head----Christ----
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

If the administration of a discussion forum were left up to me, I would be seriously tempted to have only one area where everyone was dropped into the same basket to hash out their differences until we actually attained the unity we're to aspire to. Pragmatism doesn't allow that, of course. I perceive the reason denominations exist is because of human pride that exalts their differences above the unity that would prevent us from succumbing to "every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting".

Those are my thoughts as I read through your post, when I see your observation of the mess denominations have made of our faith in Jesus Christ.