Am I saved?

[k4c]

Another thing I notice is the SDA folks keep saying the spirit of the law. I can not fing the phrase anywhere in my Bible. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

bugkiller

The Law is spiritual.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The spirit of the Law is love. In other words, the commandments define godly love towards God and man. If you walk by the Spirit of God you will be keeping the commandments because love from a pure heart and a clear conscience is the spirit of the Law or the goal or purpose of the Law.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

Now watch carefully how keeping the commandments will manifest the spirit of the Law in our lives, which is love.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

It ready doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[Norbert L]

Another thing I notice is the SDA folks keep saying the spirit of the law. I can not fing the phrase anywhere in my Bible. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

bugkiller

In both cases it's "the law", one is sin and death the other is the Spirit of life in Christ, " But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Rom 8:11)

Christ has His own mind, it's revealed there in the scriptures, how He behaves and the days He considers holy.

 

[k4c]

In both cases it's "the law", one is sin and death the other is the Spirit of life in Christ, " But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Rom 8:11)

Christ has His own mind, it's revealed there in the scriptures, how He behaves and the days He considers holy.

Remember, He came to magnify the Law and make it honorable, not do away with it.

 

[Sophia7]

Another thing I notice is the SDA folks keep saying the spirit of the law. I can not fing the phrase anywhere in my Bible. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

bugkiller

Some Adventists read the phrase "of the law" into verses like these:

Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit [of the law] and not in oldness of the letter [of the law].
___________________________________________________________

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter [of the law] but of the Spirit [of the law]; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
​

Of course, those texts actually refer to the Holy Spirit. You are correct that the phrase "spirit of the law" doesn't exist in Scripture. However, it does exist in the writings of Ellen White:

What solemn words were those that fell from the lips of the divine Teacher, who came to make honorable the law of his Father: "Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." Ministers and people should comprehend the full significance of these words. Those who by word or action, or interpretation of Scripture, lessen, or explain away the sacred claims and dignity of God's holy law shall have no place in the kingdom of heaven. Christ would here have us understand that our righteousness must include, not only the observance of the letter of the law, but also the spirit and principle of it. The letter of the law specifies how we must walk in order to please God; the spirit of the law points to Jesus Christ as the atoning sacrifice, through whose merits the sinner can fulfill the requirements of the law, Christ said, "I and my Father are one." There is therefore perfect harmony between the law and the gospel. {ST, July 18, 1878 par. 22}​

 

[bugkiller]

In both cases it's "the law", one is sin and death the other is the Spirit of life in Christ, " But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." (Rom 8:11)

Christ has His own mind, it's revealed there in the scriptures, how He behaves and the days He considers holy.

That may be. It is not the ten commandments or the law of Moses in both cases. Paul unmistakealy makes that distinction. In Romans 8:2 the law of Moses called the law of sin and death (so established in Romans 7) is contrasted with the law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus. Jer 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-13 state that the law of the new covenant was not like that given to their fathers at Sinai. The covenant and law given at Sinai is clearly identified in Deut 4:13 and 5:1-5 as the ten commandments.

I take your last statement to mean that we should follow Christ's example and do as He did. To which I respond that I double dog dare ya to so preform. Let's start with Jesus' mikveh (baptism). These baptisms stem from the Jewish rites of cleansing and are done nude. Now the baptismof Jesus by John was a very public affair and done nude. Bet your baptism was not even close. When did you wash the feet of the believers dressed as a servant? This was also done nude. Servants did not have clothes and were sold in America nude. Servants is a synomous word for slave and are the same in function. The servants we have today are paid a wage. slaves were treated as animals and compensated the same way.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Remember, He came to magnify the Law and make it honorable, not do away with it.

Where do you get Jesus came to magnify the law? I thought in one of you favorite quotes He said He came to fulfil the law. Isn't that Mat 5:17, 18? What gives?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Some Adventists read the phrase "of the law" into verses like these:

Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit [of the law] and not in oldness of the letter [of the law].
___________________________________________________________

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter [of the law] but of the Spirit [of the law]; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
​

Of course, those texts actually refer to the Holy Spirit. You are correct that the phrase "spirit of the law" doesn't exist in Scripture. However, it does exist in the writings of Ellen White:

What solemn words were those that fell from the lips of the divine Teacher, who came to make honorable the law of his Father: "Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." Ministers and people should comprehend the full significance of these words. Those who by word or action, or interpretation of Scripture, lessen, or explain away the sacred claims and dignity of God's holy law shall have no place in the kingdom of heaven. Christ would here have us understand that our righteousness must include, not only the observance of the letter of the law, but also the spirit and principle of it. The letter of the law specifies how we must walk in order to please God; the spirit of the law points to Jesus Christ as the atoning sacrifice, through whose merits the sinner can fulfill the requirements of the law, Christ said, "I and my Father are one." There is therefore perfect harmony between the law and the gospel. {ST, July 18, 1878 par. 22}
​

This is exactly what I was referring to and tryinng to get active Adventist to admit. I fully thought that they were quietly adding to the scripture when they read it. To not admit this openly to the people they communicate with is called deception (lying). Maybe they do not realize that they are doing this. A very good reason to read outloud. One may not believe what they hear even spoken form their own lips.

I do wish to thank you very much for your assistance. It is nice to have support.

bugkiller

 

[Sophia7]

This is exactly what I was referring to and tryinng to get active Adventist to admit. I fully thought that they were quietly adding to the scripture when they read it. To not admit this openly to the people they communicate with is called deception (lying). Maybe they do not realize that they are doing this. A very good reason to read outloud. One may not believe what they hear even spoken form their own lips.

I do wish to thank you very much for your assistance. It is nice to have support.

bugkiller

I don't think that most people are being dishonest when they read that in. Many Adventists truly believe that's what those texts really mean. They have been conditioned to believe that because of EGW's writings.

 

[Joe67]

There is a "law of faith" and "law of the Spirit of life" that is witnessed in the apostolic testimony.

Joe

 

[Joe67]

Concerning the matter of salvation being a process, the following testimony is valuable.

1 Peter 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. KJV

1 Peter 1:10
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: KJV

1 Peter 1:13
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; KJV

Rom 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. KJV

We were reconciled by his death. We have now received the atonement. We shall be saved by his life, that is, saved from wrath.

Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. KJV

Joe

 

[bugkiller]

I don't think that most people are being dishonest when they read that in. Many Adventists truly believe that's what those texts really mean. They have been conditioned to believe that because of EGW's writings.

I understand. Well at least I think I do. It seems that the SDA folks in general do not have the ability to communicate the truth because of what they are taught. This creates a real problem for them. They say what they believe and outsiders read something totally different. This is why I high light phrases in my posts and like to read out loud to myself. This habit of reading out loud has exposed many things for me. Maybe I should start asking people to read out loud. I picked this up from Abraham Lincoln. He said some thing like first I see it, then I speak it and hear it. I surely ought to know it then. I certainly have found iit to make a difference. It seems to engage the thought process much better. It also makes one active - one of best ways to learn and remember.

Thanks for your post.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There is a "law of faith" and "law of the Spirit of life" that is witnessed in the apostolic testimony.

Joe

Yes and neither are the law of Moses or the ten commandments.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Concerning the matter of salvation being a process, the following testimony is valuable.

1 Peter 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. KJV

1 Peter 1:10
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: KJV

1 Peter 1:13
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; KJV

Rom 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. KJV

We were reconciled by his death. We have now received the atonement. We shall be saved by his life, that is, saved from wrath.

Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. KJV

Joe

May be you have a problem with the word atonement. I notice you used the phrase be saved from wrath. This implies fear to me.

The word atonement (katallage) means exchange or restoration and is also translated as reconciliation. The Hebrew is kaphar and means to cover.

Oh, now I see you back track to v 9. This verse is not talking about our being saved - that is our relationship with God. It is speaking about a benefit of that salvation. Many people have a fire insurance relationship with God. The phrase through Him explains how or why we will not endure wrath.

Once we begin our redeemed relationship with God, the salvation process is completed. Just like a new born we mature into adulthood. This is not a process of becoming a human being. It is the same way in spiritual matters. You are born (again spiritually) John 3. Yes that is correct you are born dead. Maybe that is where the phrase living dead came from. The concept of death causes a problem for many.

bugkiller

 

[Joe67]

Yes and neither are the law of Moses or the ten commandments.

bugkiller

bugkiller,

The law of Moses and the 10 commandments are not against the promises of God through faith and the Spirit of life, even while coming short of the promises and the Spirit of life because of our flesh.

Joe

 

[bugkiller]

bugkiller,

The law of Moses and the 10 commandments are not against the promises of God through faith and the Spirit of life, even while coming short of the promises and the Spirit of life because of our flesh.

Joe

Joe, I only pointed out that the law of faith and the law of the Spirit are not the ten commandments or the law of Moses.

bugkiller

 

[Joe67]

Joe, I only pointed out that the law of faith and the law of the Spirit are not the ten commandments or the law of Moses.

bugkiller

bugkiller,

This brings us to the location of the weakness. It is our flesh. How is the flesh weak? The flesh is good. Yet a law resides in our flesh. It is symbolized as three beasts; a lion, a bear, a leopard. One is dominant at any given time. This is the law of sin and death that is upon all mankind. It comes to us out of the sea.

This law is stronger than the command to not covet. This law of sin takes control of our thoughts and deceives us when we hear the word that we should not covet human bodies and other man made objects that belong to our neighbor. We feel we are doing good as the law of sin works in our thoughts and deceives us that we are not covetous. This is true even for those who have been given to believe that Jesus is the Christ. Consider the experience of the apostles after they began to follow Jesus. Our experience is the same as the 12 disciples. It is ordained to be that way.

This is the way that the Lord increases our daily repentance.

Joe

 

[Norbert L]

That may be. It is not the ten commandments or the law of Moses in both cases. Paul unmistakealy makes that distinction. In Romans 8:2 the law of Moses called the law of sin and death (so established in Romans 7) is contrasted with the law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus. Jer 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-13 state that the law of the new covenant was not like that given to their fathers at Sinai. The covenant and law given at Sinai is clearly identified in Deut 4:13 and 5:1-5 as the ten commandments.

I take your last statement to mean that we should follow Christ's example and do as He did. To which I respond that I double dog dare ya to so preform. Let's start with Jesus' mikveh (baptism). These baptisms stem from the Jewish rites of cleansing and are done nude. Now the baptismof Jesus by John was a very public affair and done nude. Bet your baptism was not even close. When did you wash the feet of the believers dressed as a servant? This was also done nude. Servants did not have clothes and were sold in America nude. Servants is a synomous word for slave and are the same in function. The servants we have today are paid a wage. slaves were treated as animals and compensated the same way.

bugkiller

There was a thread about nude baptism, it was rather interesting. After looking into it I've come to the conclusion; seeing the lack of instruction for that practice within scripture, it again is another false doctrine. Slavery is also another interesting topic whereby I would rather be found a literal slave in Abraham's house than become a royal prince in Pharoah's palace. Such was the faith of Moses, "By faith he forsook Egypt" (Heb 11:27) the same Spirit led him as the Christian "TODAY".

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Rom 8:14)

And when it comes to following Christ in His perfect example, that should be everyone's goal, it is NOT impossible as the ideas you suggest. But that require's the faith to believe Jesus is Lord and is guiding His people into the promise "TODAY". That is when faith has and will move the mountains for the believer, to take possession of the promise, like Caleb who believed, "Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to overcome it." (Num 13:30)

And no matter what specific time with it's particular circumstances, even from the beginning the Lord spoke, "Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it." (Gen 4:7 NET)

Christ even "TODAY" through Paul instructs His people, "For though we live as human beings, we do not wage war according to human standards, for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ." (2Co 10:3-5)

And it wouldn't be the first time after expressing faith in such a way (not that all Sabbatarians believe this too), there are still those who would sarcastically say, "Good luck with that".

 

[bugkiller]

bugkiller,

The law of Moses and the 10 commandments are not against the promises of God through faith and the Spirit of life, even while coming short of the promises and the Spirit of life because of our flesh.

Joe

I forgot to also include that the promise has nothing to do with the law of Moses or the ten commandments and is not affected by either as Paul indicates.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

bugkiller,

This brings us to the location of the weakness. It is our flesh. How is the flesh weak? The flesh is good. Yet a law resides in our flesh. It is symbolized as three beasts; a lion, a bear, a leopard. One is dominant at any given time. This is the law of sin and death that is upon all mankind. It comes to us out of the sea.

This law is stronger than the command to not covet. This law of sin takes control of our thoughts and deceives us when we hear the word that we should not covet human bodies and other man made objects that belong to our neighbor. We feel we are doing good as the law of sin works in our thoughts and deceives us that we are not covetous. This is true even for those who have been given to believe that Jesus is the Christ. Consider the experience of the apostles after they began to follow Jesus. Our experience is the same as the 12 disciples. It is ordained to be that way.

This is the way that the Lord increases our daily repentance.

Joe

Huh? Makes no sense to me. Please try again withwhat you are trying to say.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There was a thread about nude baptism, it was rather interesting. After looking into it I've come to the conclusion; seeing the lack of instruction for that practice within scripture, it again is another false doctrine. Slavery is also another interesting topic whereby I would rather be found a literal slave in Abraham's house than become a royal prince in Pharoah's palace. Such was the faith of Moses, "By faith he forsook Egypt" (Heb 11:27) the same Spirit led him as the Christian "TODAY".

I seemed to have missed that thread. Been busy else where usually GT. I searched over 50 pages to find where you said this here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7433126-59/#post54164283 In the third century the Roman Bishop Hippolytus did write of nude baptism. However all that shows is the knowledge of the customs for some people who would be following Hippolytus teachings during his time around 200 years after. This does not prove they were the same customs Jesus and His disciples followed, to say that it does would be an assumption. To not explain this difference is also a lack of knowledge. I have no idea what your comment about slavery has to do with clothing or the conditions of dress of a slave?

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Rom 8:14)

And when it comes to following Christ in His perfect example, that should be everyone's goal, it is NOT impossible as the ideas you suggest. But that require's the faith to believe Jesus is Lord and is guiding His people into the promise "TODAY". That is when faith has and will move the mountains for the believer, to take possession of the promise, like Caleb who believed, "Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to overcome it." (Num 13:30)

I have no problems with the idea of following Jesus' perfect example, but I can never follow Christ's perfect example. The reason is I can not ever become the Messiah. Christ is a title not a person. Jesus is a person not a title. Most usually when we say Christ we are also referring to Jesus. Our sloppyness of speech alows us to misuse the term Christ. I used the term Christ unthinkingly. Sorry I did not use Jesus.

And no matter what specific time with it's particular circumstances, even from the beginning the Lord spoke, "Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it." (Gen 4:7 NET)

Christ even "TODAY" through Paul instructs His people, "For though we live as human beings, we do not wage war according to human standards, for the weapons of our warfare are not human weapons, but are made powerful by God for tearing down strongholds. We tear down arguments and every arrogant obstacle that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to make it obey Christ." (2Co 10:3-5)

And it wouldn't be the first time after expressing faith in such a way (not that all Sabbatarians believe this too), there are still those who would sarcastically say, "Good luck with that".

I am not able to connect anything in the above quote with the rest of your post.

bugkiller