Am I saved?

[bugkiller]

There is much discussion on what It means to be saved. The question is Am I saved if I don't observe the Sabbath? Do you have any scripture to back up your idea? I can't debate here. So I can't argue, but may have some additional questions.

Also I think it wuold help me if you told me if you are progerssive or moderate and what you see the difference as.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

There is much discussion on what It means to be saved. The question is Am I saved if I don't observe the Sabbath? Do you have any scripture to back up your idea? I can't debate here. So I can't argue, but may have some additional questions.

Also I think it wuold help me if you told me if you are progerssive or moderate and what you see the difference as.

bugkiller

A better question would be, "I'm I being saved?"

I would say that if you were being saved you would know it because there would be a power working in you not of yourself that would produce a passion within you to obey God.

Keeping the commandments is only a byproduct.

 

[Kira Light]

There is much discussion on what It means to be saved. The question is Am I saved if I don't observe the Sabbath? Do you have any scripture to back up your idea? I can't debate here. So I can't argue, but may have some additional questions.

Also I think it wuold help me if you told me if you are progerssive or moderate and what you see the difference as.

bugkiller

You keep the law just as good as any SDA does.

 

[bugkiller]

A better question would be, "I'm I being saved?"

I would say that if you were being saved you would know it because there would be a power working in you not of yourself that would produce a passion within you to obey God.

Keeping the commandments is only a byproduct.

I am sorry I thought You might understand that I claim to be saved. Would that change your response? I just don't accept the ten commandments as binding on the new covenant believer.

thanks

 

[bugkiller]

You keep the law just as good as any SDA does.

I don't understand what you are saying. What law?

bugkiller

 

[Kira Light]

I don't understand what you are saying. What law?

bugkiller

the big 10

 

[k4c]

I am sorry I thought You might understand that I claim to be saved. Would that change your response? I just don't accept the ten commandments as binding on the new covenant believer.

thanks

Why do you believe God's people don't have to obey God's commandments when Jesus Himself pointed to them many times.

Mark 10:17-19 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?''... "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery,' `Do not murder,' `Do not steal,' `Do not bear false witness,' `Do not defraud,' `Honor your father and your mother.' ''

Even years after Jesus, Paul quoted the fifth commandment word for word including the promise.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

If the Ten Commandments were null and void then so would the fifth commandment including the promise.

 

[bugkiller]

Why do you believe God's people don't have to obey God's commandments when Jesus Himself pointed to them many times.

The new covenant. For me to say anything more without you asking would be debating.

Mark 10:17-19 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?''... "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery,' `Do not murder,' `Do not steal,' `Do not bear false witness,' `Do not defraud,' `Honor your father and your mother.' ''

Ever notice the 4th is not mentioned? I think this presents a problem for both of us.

Even years after Jesus, Paul quoted the fifth commandment word for word including the promise.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

If the Ten Commandments were null and void then so would the fifth commandment including the promise.

I understand your arguement. Where do we have the 4th repeated in the NT? If it is a given then why is the 5th and the ones mentioned by Jesus also not in this class?

Just asking.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

The new covenant. For me to say anything more without you asking would be debating.
[/color] Ever notice the 4th is not mentioned? I think this presents a problem for both of us. I understand your arguement. Where do we have the 4th repeated in the NT? If it is a given then why is the 5th and the ones mentioned by Jesus also not in this class?

Just asking.

bugkiller

The Ten Commandments are always understood to be a package of ten because they were written on unchangable stone with God's own finger. In other words, when Jesus or His Apostles quoted one or two or even a few of the commandments people understood He was referring to all ten. For example, James compares the Ten Commandments with a chain with ten links. If you break one link the chain is broken.

James 2:10-11 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery,'' also said, "Do not murder.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Just because the NT does not specifically say the words, 'fourth commandment' it doesn't mean it's not taught in the NT. Jesus taught many, many times in the NT on how to obey the fourth commandment in light of service to God and needs pertaining to life.

Matthew 12:10-12 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'' that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''

One day, years after Jesus, almost the whole city came out on the Sabbath to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:44 And the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

So yes, the NT teaches much about keeping the Sabbath holy.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

A better question would be, "Am I being saved?"

The Bible does not teach that salvation is a process. The Bible teaches that salvation is an already completed event.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

The creator does not need permission to save his creation.... analogy: parents walking along the banks of a river with their children.... one slips and falls into the rushing river, one of the parents immediately jumps in and saves the child that has fallen in.... The salvation of the child was motivated by love and completed the moment said child was safely on the bank...... Are you saved... yeah you are....

 

[bugkiller]

The Ten Commandments are always understood to be a package of ten because they were written on unchangable stone with God's own finger. In other words, when Jesus or His Apostles quoted one or two or even a few of the commandments people understood He was referring to all ten. For example, James compares the Ten Commandments with a chain with ten links. If you break one link the chain is broken.

James 2:10-11 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery,'' also said, "Do not murder.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

So you must be saying the whole law is only the ten commandments, if I understand you correctly. So who has the problem? God or us? The same God Who said thou shalt not kill told those same people to kill everything that breathes in I Samuel 13:3. Is God commanding the Israelites to do something He just told them not to do? Samuel said it was God Who said to do this.

Just because the NT does not specifically say the words, 'fourth commandment' it doesn't mean it's not taught in the NT. Jesus taught many, many times in the NT on how to obey the fourth commandment in light of service to God and needs pertaining to life.

Matthew 12:10-12 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'' that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''

I see we have a problem with teaching. Jesus here did not say keep the Sabbath. He does say what you can do on the Sabbath. Jesus does not mention the Sabbath any where outside of being addressed on the subject. In other words He does not teach the fourth,but talks about the day and not the commandment. Check out Mat 19 and the young man. Jesus does not name the 4th as one of the requirements and the young man leaves sorrowfully after saying he has kept the commandments with no assurance of eternal life.

One day, years after Jesus, almost the whole city came out on the Sabbath to hear the word of God.

Acts 13:44 And the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

So yes, the NT teaches much about keeping the Sabbath holy.

This one time event is not proof that Christians observed the Sabbath. First almost the whole city did not even attend the synagogue. This is an exception worthy of note that made history. Almost the whole city was not in attendance the previous week. Other wise the statement makes no sense.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The Bible does not teach that salvation is a process. The Bible teaches that salvation is an already completed event.

BFA

I would agree. So why do the SDA seem to deny this fact? Trying to be polite and give them room.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

So you must be saying the whole law is only the ten commandments, if I understand you correctly. So who has the problem? God or us? The same God Who said thou shalt not kill told those same people to kill everything that breathes in I Samuel 13:3. Is God commanding the Israelites to do something He just told them not to do? Samuel said it was God Who said to do this. I see we have a problem with teaching. Jesus here did not say keep the Sabbath. He does say what you can do on the Sabbath. Jesus does not mention the Sabbath any where outside of being addressed on the subject. In other words He does not teach the fourth,but talks about the day and not the commandment. Check out Mat 19 and the young man. Jesus does not name the 4th as one of the requirements and the young man leaves sorrowfully after saying he has kept the commandments with no assurance of eternal life. This one time event is not proof that Christians observed the Sabbath. First almost the whole city did not even attend the synagogue. This is an exception worthy of note that made history. Almost the whole city was not in attendance the previous week. Other wise the statement makes no sense.

bugkiller

It seems to that you already believe what want to believe. Have a blessed day.

 

[bugkiller]

It seems to that you already believe what want to believe. Have a blessed day.

Seems to methat you are only interested in converts, not discussion. Very common. No problem. May your blessing return to you.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

Seems to me that you are only interested in converts, not discussion. Very common. No problem. May your blessing return to you.

bugkiller

I have spent hundreds of hours discussing this topic on this forum so there is a time to kick the dust off my shoes especially when I here such silly arguments as,

Bugkiller: "This one time event is not proof that Christians observed the Sabbath. First almost the whole city did not even attend the synagogue. This is an exception worthy of note that made history. Almost the whole city was not in attendance the previous week. Other wise the statement makes no sense."

A reply like this tells me that you are grabbing a straws to justify your belief.

Jesus kept the Sabbath holy because if He didn't He would have sinned and become unacceptable as our perfect sacrifice. Jesus is our example in how we should live.

Even after the death of Jesus His followers still kept the Sabbath (according to the commandment). If Jesus was teaching against keeping the Sabbath there would be no need for this verse.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Forty years after the resurrection of Jesus and He was still confirming the Sabbath.

Matthew 24:19-21 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I can go on and on but unless you die to sin you will not hear these things.

The fact that we are called to die daily and the fact that eternal salvation is for those who obey Jesus tells us that salvation is a daily need, not a ticket you get punched.

 

[nahtino]

It is quest intresting that many christians are willing to do away with the 10 Commandments all just for the sake of justifying their reasoning for not recognising the Sabbath for what it truely is ...

Its a huge huge huge stumbling block for them and personaly it doesnt make sense for God to eliminate the 10 Commandments ...more especialy the Sabbath ..

There is no connection between Christs ressurection from the grave and the Sabbath not being anymore .. There is 0 scritpure that states the Sabbath commandment was obliterated in the Stone tablets when HE died and was riased ...

Impossible .. but sad realy ... that many do not see the obvious and true ...

 

[Norbert L]

Seems to methat you are only interested in converts, not discussion. Very common. No problem. May your blessing return to you.

bugkiller

Well when it comes to converts, is that such a wrong thing for a Christian to hope for?

"that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh" (Rom 9:2-3)

However seeing that scripture also has numerous ideas in opposition to each other, it may also be wrong,

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" (Mat 23:15)

But to address your OP.

There is much discussion on what It means to be saved. The question is Am I saved if I don't observe the Sabbath? Do you have any scripture to back up your idea? I can't debate here. So I can't argue, but may have some additional questions.

Also I think it wuold help me if you told me if you are progerssive or moderate and what you see the difference as.

bugkiller

For some Sabbath keepers the nature of being saved is more directly tied into how a person observes "love feasts". That to be more specific to your particular question and using a scripture by extending it's principle to whatever a person believes what these "love feasts" are, but in this case as the Sabbath. It is at least possible to conclude that all those who observe the Sabbath may not necessarily be saved either.

"These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves." (Jud 1:12)

So in essence being saved has much has less to do with just showing up on a particular love feast and observing it. It has much more to do with how the Holy Spirit that is in a person, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?" (1Co 6:19), the promise (Joh 16:13) which is leading the Christian into the truth.

Which is one aspect about the Sabbath controversy which makes it a rather divisive doctrine to discuss. And not to dance around the issue, some Sabbath keepers do believe (some do not) that by not having at least the outward sign of keeping the Sabbath, those who practice not observing the Sabbath, may not be saved. But that it also possible that those non Sabbath keeping Christians may be saved too.

 

[k4c]

Seems to methat you are only interested in converts, not discussion. Very common. No problem. May your blessing return to you.

bugkiller

Let me share with you the truth about God's Law so that you too can be blessed as I am blessed.

http://looking4jesus.com/Law.html

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Well when it comes to converts, is that such a wrong thing for a Christian to hope for?

I think it is. Christians are called to enter into relationships. This is the only way to create disciples. Conversion is a divine activity, not a human activity. As a people, we believers tend to get confused about our purpose. God has not called us to be holy predators; He has called us to bear one another's burdens, to care for the widow and the orphan and to love well.

But let's imagine for the sake of discussion that our goal as believers is to convert people. What are we to convert them to?

1. Jesus Christ?
2. Theology?
3. The law?
4. The sabbath?
5. A denomination?
​

BFA