Am I prejudiced?

[karisma]

I grew up on the outskirts of the 'burbs, in a very white area. My high school of ~3500 had only a handful of students of other races. I was not at all a racist person; I didn't have any negative perceptions of people of other colors and I was actually good friends with one of the black girls in my high school. I remember chiding my mom for being silly when we went places in the city as she would get all up tight when a group of black people would be around (my mom is very sheltered). I worked in the kitchen at a restaurant with a lot of Mexicans and they were part of the reason I worked there for so long- they were very cool people and I enjoyed being around them.

After high school I moved out and lived in a few places before we finally bought a house in a major city. We got a good price on the house and though I feel pretty safe on my block, this definitely isn't the greatest part of the city. We're about 2 miles from a very very bad area (highest crime in the state). But like I mentioned, our area isn't that bad. I walk my dog during the day without fear (definitely wouldn't go out at night alone). It is a VERY racially diverse area though, I would say the majority being white and black, but also a high percentage of Asians live here as well.

I hate to admit it, but the longer I live here, the more prejudiced I find myself becoming. When I walk my dog during the day, I get a LOT of comments from black men on the street/driving by in cars. Not just silly honking, but people hollering out windows, and either implying I'm a prostitute, calling me derogatory female names, telling me he's got something for me (in not such a nice way), etc. These comments are ALWAYS coming from black men (which isn't to say white/Asian men don't ever make these comments but I'm just saying this is MY personal experience). Often at the gas station some person will be just BLARING music out there car- I've never seen a white/Asian do this. Moms screaming obscenities at small children.There have been several fights in the alley- always involving black people. I've had scantily dressed (to put it nicely) teenage girls who were black hitting on my bf right in front of me on the street.

I realize how racist all that sounds, but all I can speak for are my personal experiences, and that's been it living in this neighborhood. I still try to keep an open mind, and I certainly know many many kind, loving, intelligent, caring, etc black people in my community. I work with a couple people who are black that I would gladly follow into battle (as the expression goes), and I also know a LOT of white people who are absolute a-holes and losers. But quite literally, almost every negative experience I've had in my area has been involving black people.

The definition of prejudice from dictionary.com:
1.an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. 2.any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. 3.unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

Based on my personal experiences as well as statistics, which say that black people (specifically, young black men) are something like 8x more likely than whites to commit a crime, is it really prejudiced to feel more anxiety around strange black people in my neighborhood?

 

[Gishin]

It's not because they are black that they act like that. It's because of their surroundings.

 

[PassionFruit]

We're all prejudice to a certain degree. The best thing we can do is figure out why we have those prejudices and where they came from.

I would have to agree with Gishin, they behave in that manner because of the surroundings. I used to live in 'ghettos' if you will, and I've seen some of the same behavior you're describing from blacks. However, I bet if you lived in a racially diverse middle class neighborhood (even upper middle class), you probably won't see that kind of behavior.

About being hit on, at times I think that stems from a general disrespect for women.

 

[Braunwyn]

We're all prejudice to a certain degree. The best thing we can do is figure out why we have those prejudices and where they came from.

I would have to agree with Gishin, they behave in that manner because of the surroundings. I used to live in 'ghettos' if you will, and I've seen some of the same behavior you're describing from blacks. However, I bet if you lived in a racially diverse middle class neighborhood (even upper middle class), you probably won't see that kind of behavior.

About being hit on, at times I think that stems from a general disrespect for women.

I agree that we're all prejudice to a certain degree but it doesn't always involve physiology. I definately have some bigoted views towards men in ghetto culture but that has nothing to do with black, white, hispanic. It's problematic and ignorant to assign the faults of a culture onto individuals that aren't members of said culture based on the color of their hair, skin. Unfortunately that seems to be common for some folk who aren't exposed a variety of people/communities etc.

 

[Washington]

It's not prejudicial to hate, dislike, or disapprove of a segment of a population--particular people in your area---if they have shown themselves to be worthy of hatred, dislike, and disapproval. Just don't judge others of the same color or ethnicity outside your area the same way. And within your area, you have every right to be wary and suspicious of people of a particular color or ethnicity until they prove themselves otherwise. It's unfortunate that a few can spoil it for the rest, but that's just the way it washes out sometimes. To not be wary could be detrimental. This is one time where it's better to be safe than sorry really does apply.

 

[quatona]

When I walk my dog during the day, I get a LOT of comments from black men on the street/driving by in cars. Not just silly honking, but people hollering out windows, and either implying I'm a prostitute, calling me derogatory female names, telling me he's got something for me (in not such a nice way), etc. These comments are ALWAYS coming from black men (which isn't to say white/Asian men don't ever make these comments but I'm just saying this is MY personal experience).

I don´t see what´s wrong about saying "In most (or here even: all) cases I get harrassed it´s by black males".
Then again, I am not sure what this observation would help you with and what conclusions you feel you can draw from that.

Often at the gas station some person will be just BLARING music out there car- I've never seen a white/Asian do this. Moms screaming obscenities at small children.There have been several fights in the alley- always involving black people. I've had scantily dressed (to put it nicely) teenage girls who were black hitting on my bf right in front of me on the street.

I realize how racist all that sounds,

Well, yes, in the broadest sense of the word using the category "race" for an epistemological tool can be called "racist".
However, the question whether you are prejudiced depends on how you proceed from applying this category and the resulting observations. What do you make of them, what conclusions do you draw?

The definition of prejudice from dictionary.com:

Great idea!

1.

an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. 2.any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. 3.unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

In my opinion the question whether you act upon prejudices becomes relevant when it comes to drawing conclusions from statistical data about a group on an individual member of this group.
IOW: Do you let those statistical data influence your attitude/opinion/expectations when you meet a member of this group?

Based on my personal experiences as well as statistics, which say that black people (specifically, young black men) are something like 8x more likely than whites to commit a crime, is it really prejudiced to feel more anxiety around strange black people in my neighborhood?

I am not sure that anxiety - which is an emotion - can be called "prejudice" - which I think signifies explicit supposedly objective statements.

But to answer your question: Imo, as soon as you try to rationalize your anxiety towards a person by statistical data of the group he belongs to you are forming a prejudice.

 

[quatona]

It's not prejudicial to hate, dislike, or disapprove of a segment of a population--particular people in your area---if they have shown themselves to be worthy of hatred, dislike, and disapproval.

..if you keep that strictly to those very individuals that have done the things in question, that is.

 

[lawtonfogle]

It's not prejudicial to hate, dislike, or disapprove of a segment of a population--particular people in your area---if they have shown themselves to be worthy of hatred, dislike, and disapproval. Just don't judge others of the same color or ethnicity outside your area the same way.

I would have to disagree with this. You should, until they have shown they aren't like the group you knew. You should judge this way for you own safety, just don't let the verdict be final.

And to be safe, just go ahead and judge everyone that way.

 

[Alexandrah]

I experienced this as well and as someone who has always been very sensitive about race issues it disturbed me greatly.

I never thought I would even think in a way that was so conflicting with my personal beliefs. After spending two years in "the barrio" I found myself struggling with strongly disliking the people that lived around me. My neighbors were loud, inconsiderate, packed into close quarters, popping out babies left and right, and generally rude to me. I felt like an outsider and grew to dislike their culture.

I reconciled with these feelings after I moved. The things I disliked about these people had to do with class, not race or culture. Now that I moved to a higher income area we still have vast racial diversity but the behavior is completely different. No one is growing corn in their front yard. I don't see 10 men sitting out in their front yard mid-day drinking corona. Children go inside when it gets dark.

I think that the way people act (in most cases) can be directly attributed to the income level and social status that they have achieved.

 

[karisma]

It's not because they are black that they act like that. It's because of their surroundings.

If it's just surroundings why is the problem coming solely from a single race?

 

[karisma]

We're all prejudice to a certain degree. The best thing we can do is figure out why we have those prejudices and where they came from.

I would have to agree with Gishin, they behave in that manner because of the surroundings. I used to live in 'ghettos' if you will, and I've seen some of the same behavior you're describing from blacks. However, I bet if you lived in a racially diverse middle class neighborhood (even upper middle class), you probably won't see that kind of behavior.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't consider this the "ghetto" although I guess that depends on what is ghetto to you. I remember working a few miles from here 6-7 years ago (before I moved out of white suburbia) and I remember not liking driving through here, but now I don't find it that bad at all. It's really neighborhood by neighborhood, I guess.

About being hit on, at times I think that stems from a general disrespect for women.

So is it just something about black culture that is teaching black men to be disrespectful towards women? Because I haven't experienced that from whites or Asians (no comment on Mexicans as there aren't really many around here).

 

[karisma]

I agree that we're all prejudice to a certain degree but it doesn't always involve physiology. I definately have some bigoted views towards men in ghetto culture but that has nothing to do with black, white, hispanic. It's problematic and ignorant to assign the faults of a culture onto individuals that aren't members of said culture based on the color of their hair, skin. Unfortunately that seems to be common for some folk who aren't exposed a variety of people/communities etc.

I agree with that about the ghetto culture. All I am saying though is what I personally have experienced, it is only blacks displaying this sort of attitude/culture/whatever you want to call it.

And I guess what I'm trying to discover is, is it really ignorant to start associating blacks and almost expecting blacks to behave a certain way, or is that just considered learning based on experience?

 

[karisma]

I agree that we're all prejudice to a certain degree but it doesn't always involve physiology. I definately have some bigoted views towards men in ghetto culture but that has nothing to do with black, white, hispanic. It's problematic and ignorant to assign the faults of a culture onto individuals that aren't members of said culture based on the color of their hair, skin. Unfortunately that seems to be common for some folk who aren't exposed a variety of people/communities etc.

Urgh! I had a good response typed out until the site froze and I lost it.

2nd try: condensed version: I agree with you about the ghetto culture. However, in my experience, I am finding it to be mostly blacks associated with that particular culture. Is it wrong to start associating, and almost expecting, a certain behavior from blacks, or is that just association by learning from personal experiences?

 

[karisma]

I don´t see what´s wrong about saying "In most (or here even: all) cases I get harrassed it´s by black males".
Then again, I am not sure what this observation would help you with and what conclusions you feel you can draw from that.

I'm just trying to be careful around this one less I get reported for flaming or whatnot.

Well, yes, in the broadest sense of the word using the category "race" for an epistemological tool can be called "racist".
However, the question whether you are prejudiced depends on how you proceed from applying this category and the resulting observations. What do you make of them, what conclusions do you draw?


Great idea!

In my opinion the question whether you act upon prejudices becomes relevant when it comes to drawing conclusions from statistical data about a group on an individual member of this group.
IOW: Do you let those statistical data influence your attitude/opinion/expectations when you meet a member of this group?

I am not sure that anxiety - which is an emotion - can be called "prejudice" - which I think signifies explicit supposedly objective statements.

But to answer your question: Imo, as soon as you try to rationalize your anxiety towards a person by statistical data of the group he belongs to you are forming a prejudice.

Not specifically by statistics but even more importantly, by my own personal experiences in my neighborhood. So I guess my main question is, is prejudice justifiable?

 

[Braunwyn]

So is it just something about black culture that is teaching black men to be disrespectful towards women? Because I haven't experienced that from whites or Asians (no comment on Mexicans as there aren't really many around here).

I wouldn't call it black culture. That's too broad of a brush though I suppose passionfruit is the one to speak of it. I've known my fair share of white men that are drug addicts, thieves, disprespectful to women and everyone else around them. And I know fine, educated black men. Blacks in the US have had it tough due to disparity, systemic racism, and a history of abuse that's hard to overcome. There isn't a physiological component that lends to culture (as far as I know). If anything, white culture is largely responsible for ghetto culture imo.

 

[karisma]

I experienced this as well and as someone who has always been very sensitive about race issues it disturbed me greatly.

I never thought I would even think in a way that was so conflicting with my personal beliefs. After spending two years in "the barrio" I found myself struggling with strongly disliking the people that lived around me. My neighbors were loud, inconsiderate, packed into close quarters, popping out babies left and right, and generally rude to me. I felt like an outsider and grew to dislike their culture.

I reconciled with these feelings after I moved. The things I disliked about these people had to do with class, not race or culture. Now that I moved to a higher income area we still have vast racial diversity but the behavior is completely different. No one is growing corn in their front yard. I don't see 10 men sitting out in their front yard mid-day drinking corona. Children go inside when it gets dark.

I think that the way people act (in most cases) can be directly attributed to the income level and social status that they have achieved.

I agree with that to some extent, as I mentioned I lived in a middle class mostly white area but the few minorities that lived there were very respectable people. But why is it in my new neighborhood- in which everyone is likely in a similar financial position- only the blacks are behaving in this manner?

I feel like I am realizing how different it was for me living back in white suburbia, to sit around and say how we are all the same color, color doesn't matter, we're all equal, etc etc, and now that I am actually submerged in it, to be finding stark contrasts in behavior based (seemingly) solely on race. It makes me uncomfortable to think that way but I can't deny the things I have seen/heard personally.

 

[karisma]

I wouldn't call it black culture. That's too broad of a brush though I suppose passionfruit is the one to speak of it. I've known my fair share of white men that are drug addicts, thieves, disprespectful to women and everyone else around them. And I know fine, educated black men. Blacks in the US have had it tough due to disparity, systemic racism, and a history of abuse that's hard to overcome. There isn't a physiological component that lends to culture (as far as I know).

Right, I said it before, I know some white trash and also some great black people (I happen to work with a couple). But in general this is the trend I am seeing.

If anything, white culture is largely responsible for ghetto culture imo.

So ghetto culture exists solely as a backlash and cannot be held responsible?

 

[Braunwyn]

I agree with that about the ghetto culture. All I am saying though is what I personally have experienced, it is only blacks displaying this sort of attitude/culture/whatever you want to call it.

lol eh, you've never been to Jersey then.

And I guess what I'm trying to discover is, is it really ignorant to start associating blacks and almost expecting blacks to behave a certain way, or is that just considered learning based on experience?

Is it ignorant to associate all blacks? I don't think it's wise. I've experienced similar thoughts (not about blacks in my case but another group) and I have to remind myself not to be a bigot, stereotype etc. I've learned that I only damage myself with such thinking because I miss out on experiencing what others (of a group) have to offer because I assign them my bologna from the get-go. I don't think it's an honest position.

 

[Braunwyn]

Right, I said it before, I know some white trash and also some great black people (I happen to work with a couple). But in general this is the trend I am seeing.

So ghetto culture exists solely as a backlash and cannot be held responsible?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be accountability for individuals. As I stated in my first post I tend to have prejudice against ghetto culture with little patience if any. But, it is the result of the haves vs the have nots and it's not going to fix itself. As long as such disparities exist nothing will change and from the looks of our current situation that won't be changing any time soon. I have no idea how any of it will play out. Maybe if Obama wins the ticket it will spark a communal movement. Who knows.

 

[quatona]

I'm just trying to be careful around this one less I get reported for flaming or whatnot.

I see. I didn´t mean to ask you to reveal them, though. I just meant to point out that your conclusions would be the relevant factor.

Not specifically by statistics but even more importantly, by my own personal experiences in my neighborhood.

That´s actually what I meant when saying statistics: your personal statistical observations as you described them in the OP. Sorry for being unclear.

So I guess my main question is, is prejudice justifiable?

Ok, that´s a new question. Up to now I just tried to answer the question "Is this prejudice?" (without any moral or ethical implications).
Are prejudices justifiable?
In the broadest sense of the word, prejudices are unavoidable. Actually, we act upon prejudices all the time. For me, the important question is "How do I deal with my prejudices?". There is an unhealthy tendency to give more significance to those events that can be interpreted as confirming our prejudices than to those that can be interpreted to refute them. Also, there is an unhealthy tendency to interprete events in a way that confirm our prejudices rather than in a way that would us require to reconsider them. Prejudice and bias tend to be related.
On another note, I think that our negative prejudices show (even though we might not want them to) to those who we hold them towards. This negative attitude can easily work in a self-fulfilling way.
Finally, negative prejudices are (or cause us) negative emotions - we don´t do ourselves a favour.

That´s how I see it.