Am I misunderstanding the Bible?

[singpeace]

Eachallberg,

Not all of your facts are correct, so with all due respect and for Tom's sake, I’d like to clarify some things for you.

“The Bible was compiled by man, the roman empire to be exact.
It was all written by man, and some was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Is all of it necessary?

Here is Paul's answer:

II Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The word ‘inspiration’ in the original Greek text here is pneō, which means to breathe. Paul says God breathed ALL scripture.

If it has nothing to do with Love than it is meaningless, like the genealogies even Paul rebukes in 1 Timothy 1:4.
Those same 2 evangelists that wrote about the centurions Faith present a family tree that are not same.

Genealogies are far from meaningless but very relevant to Scripture. The discrepancies in the two genealogies of Jesus occur because one traces Joseph’s lineage and the other traces Mary’s lineage.

Read all of I Timothy 1. Paul simply tells Timothy to stay at Ephesus and to stand his ground with those who were teaching false doctrines and fables and who were making it a spectacle out of reading genealogies rather than learning the truth about Christ.

No, don't worry. The people that put 66 books together and called it the only infallible Word of G_d threw up barriers up and spread fear. Paul wrote his letters with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that Paul wrote his letters with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That being so, he still states, “All Scripture is inspired by God…”

The Spirit of Truth wasn't snuffed out completely. Jeremiah 8:8, Revelation 22:18-19, clearly indicated that the altercation of scripture happens. John had to add threats!

No altercation of Scripture has occurred. Read all of Jeremiah. The Israelites have once again turned their backs on God, and He is angry. However, it doesn't last long; in verse 12, He has compassion on them once again and promises to rescue them from their own trap. This same rebellion of God's people, his anger turning to compassion, leading to their rescue happened 31 times in the book of Judges alone.

In Revelation 22, God says, IF any man does this...

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."(Luke 11:52)

Luke was written decades before Revelation; therefore it has no bearing on Revelation 22.

In Luke, Jesus accuses the priests (Pharisees and Sadducees) of was what was in their hearts. They had been intentionally using their position in society and authority over the people of God for evil rather than for what was pure and holy. These men had the power to say who would be stoned to death. The Pharisees preached a God of wrath and judgment, whereas the Sadducees worshiped a God of pomp and circumstance. Both sects became wealthy by taking land, property and money from the poor, the widows, and the orphans.

The 'key to knowledge' which they withheld refers to the knowledge that God loved and longed for his children, wanted their hearts clean, adorned, and obedient, and wanted them to never again be in bondage or fear. When Jesus arrived on the scene, He gave a living accurate picture of Who God really was and gladly set all free who wanted to be free.

Look at the vatican flag.
See keys?
They deceive some by calling them St. Peters keys to the gates of heaven but it is a blatant taunt.
O' foolish roman catholic church empire...

Again, the ‘key’ in Luke 11 refers to what can set men free; the knowledge of God’s great love and redemption.

How can we grow when confined, and are only movement is trembling from fear (1 John 4:18).

I don't know which translation you have there, but this passage actually says that in God is perfect love and that his perfect love casts out fear so that we should not be afraid.

I John 4:16 -19 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[Doubting Tomas]

>That's right. I should have read this before typing all what I wrote prior!

My reply starts from here. ^^

>Yes, we need to learn to love our enemies - it is indeed very hard.

In Japanese expression of "love our enemies." - Send the salt to the enemy.
w.city.yonezawa.yamagata.jp/kousaihi/PAMPHLET/okurue.pdf
Mercy is one of the most respected virtues in Japan also.
However, we don't see that every day, in these days.
I was surprised to read the site above, and those Japanese were as noble as some Christians.

I read the Bible and understand it personally, because the way Holy Spirit teaches me, shows me and lets me know is something to do with my eagerness to know God's love and pains, agonies and frustration from my life.
The words of the Bible connected to my life and my personal understanding.
Therefore, my perception could be totally different from some Christian's and they may think my understanding is wrong.

If it is different from yours, so let them be.
Unless you have good explanations to teach me and convince me, I think I am confessing to God what I think of the Bible after I read it.
I do not believe in the existence of God as Creator on this earth or in the universe any longer, however, by believing the every words of Jesus in my heart, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will be existed but not in this world.

Who can tell if I believe Jesus or not?
I think I believe in Jesus from bottom of my heart.
But was my heart with the heart of Jesus all the time?
Only God knows.
I doubt even it was some time, I will be lucky if Jesus felt my heart in a slightest moment.
Because I have a sinful body and the sinful mind tries to control my heart.

Nevertheless, "Be perfect!" as the Bible encourage us, we must be so strong in spiritually that we can send salt to the enemies.

 

[eachallberg]

Thank you, eachallburg

>The 2nd and 3rd Evangelists give the only account of Jesus marveling at the Centurion's faith. No where else does it show Christ being amazed. (Luke 7:9)

>When we get together and Pray and proclaim the Faith we all say, "amen" at the end because we are agreeing (accepting).
Salvation comes through acceptance, we merely accept gifts especially when G_d gives them (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Amen

>The Bible was compiled by man, the roman empire to be exact.
It was all written by man, and some was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Is all of it necessary?

I think you are correct, and if you talk about the history, I think Jesus was a mere man with great philosophy in a history book...

I disagree, I believe it was G_d who appeared as a mere man. Who is the Way, Truth, Life, the Good Shepherd, Savior, Lord, and Master.

And I like you said some (of the Bible) was written inspired by Holy Spirit.
I know it is only me to think that I do not take Old Testament heavy as the Bible (such as kosher food law) and only the Gospel is important for me.

Amen! The OT is full of atrocities that permeate today like sexism, slavery, war, ect...
I believe the OT is in the same binding as the Gospel to justify these perverted acts.

>Doubt is not good, but being aware is (Luke 12:1) especially with what your saying amen to.

Haha, Doubting Tomas is actually Doubting Thomas, of course, however, my real name is Hirotami and they called me Tommy, then Thomas or Tom when I came to the USA 36 years ago.
My grandmother's cousin was a student of Johns Hopkins University a hundred some years ago.
His name was Inazo Nitobe and he was baptized in Japan, provably as a Methodist.
After He came to the USA, he must be disappointed with the denomination whatever the reason was.
Then he joined Quaker and married Quaker's daughter.
When I recently found the name of the baby son of Inazo and his wife Mary, passed away in few days after born, was Thomas, I had a chill all over my body.

I never had a relationship with famous Inazo and Quaker rather than my mother told me about Inazo who was a cousin on my grandmother.
I lived Maryland and New Jersey, so Philadelphia was my favorite city to visit.
I may have passed where Inazo was riding a buggy, and I may have seen trail or woods Inazo had seen.

William Pen (the founder of Pennsylvania) was a Quaker and Quaker believed we are all equal under God, which was a new and noble idea especially back then.
The idea became Democracy, the Democracy formed the base of the Constitution of the USA, We The People.

Ironically, the Founding Fathers of America was also the Framers of the Constitution and some of them, such as George Washington, were slave plantation owners.

However, many good things had come out of the Constitution in its history, even it was slowly.

Oh well, what was I talking about ?

Ha, I don't know who those people are. Ill try and get back on that. ...Slavery, what a farce.

>Its not a problem you don't understand the Bible (1 Corinthians 8:2).

No, it's not a problem. We do not understand it without the Holy Spirit.
Even I did one night, next morning I never felt the chill again.
However, telling others that you are misunderstanding the Bible is totally different no understand.
Since we don't understand the Bible is no problem, to tell someone you are misunderstanding the Bible is who's words?
Perhaps, the Holy Spirit?

>No, don't worry. The people that put 66 books together and called it the only infallible Word of G_d threw up barriers up and spread fear. Paul wrote his letters with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Truth wasn't snuffed out completely. Jeremiah 8:8, Revelation 22:18-19, clearly indicated that the altercation of scripture happens. John had to add threats!

This is what I am talking about with "only the Gospel is important for me."

A misunderstanding is Jesus teaching cannibalism in John 6. It is easy to take out of context and agree, but when read entirely he eventually clarifies his figure of speech.
It could be the Holy Spirit, or is it you?

The Gospel is the only important thing to talk about.

Dear Brother Thomas,
Peace be to you.

 

[eachallberg]

Eachallberg,

Not all of your facts are correct, so with all due respect and for Tom's sake, I’d like to clarify some things for you.




Here is Paul's answer:

II Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The word ‘inspiration’ in the original Greek text here is pneō, which means to breathe. Paul says God breathed ALL scripture.

Thank you for your correction, but no one can speak the Truth except Jesus Christ because he is Truth (Jeremiah 9:5 & James 3:8 / John 14:6).

Inspired does not mean infallible. We are gods (Psalm 82:6) but cursed by flesh at the same time.

Genealogies are far from meaningless but very relevant to Scripture. The discrepancies in the two genealogies of Jesus occur because one traces Joseph’s lineage and the other traces Mary’s lineage.

Im sorry, but no & no.

...Paul simply tells Timothy to stay at Ephesus and to stand his ground with those who were teaching false doctrines and fables and who were making it a spectacle out of reading genealogies rather than learning the truth about Christ.

Exactly!
Maybe Constantine's crew should have thought more about that one.

I agree with you that Paul wrote his letters with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That being so, he still states, “All Scripture is inspired by God…”





No altercation of Scripture has occurred. Read all of Jeremiah. The Israelites have once again turned their backs on God, and He is angry. However, it doesn't last long; in verse 12, He has compassion on them once again and promises to rescue them from their own trap. This same rebellion of God's people, his anger turning to compassion, leading to their rescue happened 31 times in the book of Judges alone.

In Revelation 22, God says, IF any man does this...

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.





Luke was written decades before Revelation; therefore it has no bearing on Revelation 22.

But it has bearing on the altering of scripture.

Seriously, John uses threats in Revelation because its known and was known that scribes alter the text, either of personal beliefs or error.

In Luke, Jesus accuses the priests (Pharisees and Sadducees) of was what was in their hearts. They had been intentionally using their position in society and authority over the people of God for evil rather than for what was pure and holy. These men had the power to say who would be stoned to death. The Pharisees preached a God of wrath and judgment, whereas the Sadducees worshiped a God of pomp and circumstance. Both sects became wealthy by taking land, property and money from the poor, the widows, and the orphans.

The 'key to knowledge' which they withheld refers to the knowledge that God loved and longed for his children, wanted their hearts clean, adorned, and obedient, and wanted them to never again be in bondage or fear. When Jesus arrived on the scene, He gave a living accurate picture of Who God really was and gladly set all free who wanted to be free.





Again, the ‘key’ in Luke 11 refers to what can set men free; the knowledge of God’s great love and redemption.





I don't know which translation you have there, but this passage actually says that in God is perfect love and that his perfect love casts out fear so that we should not be afraid.

I John 4:16 -19 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


We love him, because he first loved us.

Lets forget the catholic stuff and get to the greatest point, Love.

Why fear Love???

Jesus Christ does not promote fear.
Yet scripture does, and we should disagree.

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
(James 1:17)

Did scripture fall from the sky?
G_d bless your Soul.

Peace.

 

[singpeace]

Eachallberg,

Something confuses me. You say that scripture has been altered by man, and that only the Apostle Paul was inspired by God when he wrote his letters. Why then, do you keep quoting scriptures Paul did not write? Such as here in response to my response:

(Jeremiah 9:5 & James 3:8 / John 14:6). ?

Genealogies are far from meaningless but very relevant to Scripture. The discrepancies in the two genealogies of Jesus occur because one traces Joseph’s lineage and the other traces Mary’s lineage.

I'm sorry, but no & no.

Please explain your "no and no" answer by providing where or how you came upon this knowledge?

Luke was written decades before Revelation; therefore it has no bearing on Revelation 22.

But it has bearing on the altering of scripture.

Seriously, John uses threats in Revelation because its known and was known that scribes alter the text, either of personal beliefs or error.

Please prove this? Can you cite your sources for me, please?

Lets forget the catholic stuff and get to the greatest point, Love.

Whose Catholic? I'm not Catholic.
And yes; the greatest point is love.

Jesus Christ does not promote fear.
Yet scripture does, and we should disagree.

I'm very curious; who do you say Jesus Christ is?


God bless your soul as well, Eachallberg.

 

[Doubting Tomas]

Romans 10:9 tells us that there are only two things needed for you to go to heaven and be with God forever"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)[The world we live in can be a scary place, but Romans 8:28 tells us that God is in control and reminds us that God has a plan to protect us and give our hearts peace. The plan is to have His son Jesus Christ pay the price for our mistakes, even though He did nothing wrong, so that we can have a perfect life in heaven, even though we don't deserve it.​

He offers this as a free gift to you because of His great love for you. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, so that whoever believes in Him will not die, but have eternal life. (John 3:16]Saving faith is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. 'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.' (Ephesians 2:8,9)If you don't have a time in your life when you remember asking Jesus to come into your heart, to forgive you of your sins and change the direction you were heading in your life, today is the day of salvation! It's not a coincidence that you're here reading this information. if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.

Thank you, mandelduke.

>Romans 10:9 tells us that there are only two things needed for you to go to heaven and be with God forever

I am not a Bible scholar, therefore, I could not compare Romans 10:9 with John 1:12 to tell myself which is speaking truth, however, in John, it describes about Jesus history and , in Romans, Paul as a missionary talks about what Jesus said.
The priority is clear.
By the way, I've read Romans chapter 10 a few times through, and could not find the script "only two things needed for you" in there.
If you can show me where did you find " only two things needed", I will be deeply appreciated.

 

[heymikey80]

Thanks for your reply.

>When you believe in someone, you rely on him.

My Question, here, is that am I misunderstanding the Bible.
How am I saved? is the question and not "How do I believe Him?"
I apologize if I misunderstand your post.

No problem. My point is this -- when being saved is believing, the two questions are equivalent.

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Rom 10:9-10

So what believe meant to the person who said that, it determines how you are saved.

When any one believes in the Bible, he/she must believe that the Bible was written with the words from the Holy Spirit, or some like that in my case.

Yes, that's what's normally meant by the statement.

In that case, God=Jesus must have said all He wanted say, don't you think?

All He needed to say to accomplish His will, yes.

Like you say, I can assure you that the Bible said everything we need to know and we can rely on it without any doubt.

But no one has said that Jesus made everything so clear and plain that everyone would instantly get His meaning. Quite the opposite, in fact.

10Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" 11And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled ..." Mt 13:10-14

My problem is that I was told by many I don't understand the Bible, is that so?

Did you mean by this, the view that what you understand from the Bible must be what the Bible means? I could certainly misunderstand what you're referring to, from what you're saying.

Ultimately, studying the Word of God is going to change your viewpoint, radically. But there's no reason to require the change to be quick or instant. It'll change you over time as you lead your life.

The intent of Christ's work and indeed one fundamental character trait of God's Person is redemptiveness. So redemption will appear and continue in God's people throughout their lives, not "instantly" and then never again. We won't be able to forget it.

 

[Doubting Tomas]

I disagree, I believe it was G_d who appeared as a mere man. Who is the Way, Truth, Life, the Good Shepherd, Savior, Lord, and Master.


Amen! The OT is full of atrocities that permeate today like sexism, slavery, war, ect...
I believe the OT is in the same binding as the Gospel to justify these perverted acts.


Ha, I don't know who those people are. Ill try and get back on that. ...Slavery, what a farce.



A misunderstanding is Jesus teaching cannibalism in John 6. It is easy to take out of context and agree, but when read entirely he eventually clarifies his figure of speech.
It could be the Holy Spirit, or is it you?

The Gospel is the only important thing to talk about.

Dear Brother Thomas,
Peace be to you.

Thank you, eachallberg

>I disagree, I believe it was G_d who appeared as a mere man. Who is the Way, Truth, Life, the Good Shepherd, Savior, Lord, and Master.

You are correct in the world of the Bible, I think.
However, as I wrote "in the history" previously, there were more non-Christians in this world.
Christians can say all we want Jesus is God, but not all people in the world believe so-I need to grip this also along with Christianity.
I am not talking about other religeons or atheism, but science and philosophy.
The real world can't prove the exicetence of God by scientists, nor prove the absence.
The choice is upto us each indevisual, so I chose the Bible and just hope God choose me.
Do I believe, in this case, that it is matter for God I say with my mouth I truly believe in Him?
How silly it is to think that what I say or what I do is important for God.
The importance is that if I know God's heart or not, and it's not up to me.
O Lord, did I misunderstand you?

Philosophy-Christianiy teachs us the absolute being of God.
On the contrary, Zen-Buddhism teach us everythings is relative being(s), include Buddha and ・・・God.
The relative being is just like a "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Therefore, it is extreamly important for me to believe in what Jesus said and not other human being said about him.
Near all Christian I know believe Old Testament as same degree of imiportance of New Testament.
I could see slite (and huge) differences between OT and NT.
OT was the bible understood and written by Hebrew and for Hebrew, and NT is for all human being, I think.
However, Jesus never criticized OT, as far as I can find.

I believe that I need to take the Bible completey into my heart, however, that doesn't mean I can be blind only in the world.
I guess that my standing is agnostic, a strong attacker against atheism and the Bible is the guidance to the truth.

 

[Doubting Tomas]

No problem. My point is this -- when being saved is believing, the two questions are equivalent.

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Rom 10:9-10

So what believe meant to the person who said that, it determines how you are saved.


Yes, that's what's normally meant by the statement.

All He needed to say to accomplish His will, yes.

But no one has said that Jesus made everything so clear and plain that everyone would instantly get His meaning. Quite the opposite, in fact.

10Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" 11And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled ..." Mt 13:10-14

Did you mean by this, the view that what you understand from the Bible must be what the Bible means? I could certainly misunderstand what you're referring to, from what you're saying.

Ultimately, studying the Word of God is going to change your viewpoint, radically. But there's no reason to require the change to be quick or instant. It'll change you over time as you lead your life.

The intent of Christ's work and indeed one fundamental character trait of God's Person is redemptiveness. So redemption will appear and continue in God's people throughout their lives, not "instantly" and then never again. We won't be able to forget it.

Thank you, heymikey80.

>So what believe meant to the person who said that, it determines how you are saved.

So it's written.
And also this is written in Matthew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

This is a good example We don't have to limit our thought on one line or two.
After all, what the Bible teachs me is "love God and obey Him."
For me, love God is no problem, I believe the words of Jesus 100%, and I am reading the Bible repeatedly to find out where God's heart is to obey it.

I admit that I did and still do wrong things knowingly it's wrong.
I am sure that God knows all that.
If I did or thought I believed they were right or righteous things to do at the time but later regretted them as my understanding of the Bible grew, then what God would do?
If I lived long enough to get to know the deep meaning of the Bible and then I could perform love of God=Jesus to my neighbors good enough to enter Heaven but I died well before that time, what God would evalute me?
When I confessed my faith in public, you may say >10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Rom 10:9-10<,therefore,I will be saved.
I still say, God would evalute me, all I can hope is that I did not lie to Him when I said &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217;.
And also, I've learned this from reading the stories of King Solomon's life, people's heart or faith is not concrete all ways rather fragile.

My previous question is,"Am I misunderstanding the Bible?"
I would rather people tell me that I do not understand the Bible, because I may agree with it, I did not read all of it-such as Revelation. What is a big deal of Revelation? Its remind me of a school teacher checking my homework.
I don't understand why Jesu needs to check on us, after we knew the Gospel, what happens is that we believe it not.
Then Jesus told him, &#8220;Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.&#8221;(John20:29,NIV)
Why do we need to long for (seems to me) the ultimate miracle?

>But no one has said that Jesus made everything so clear and plain that everyone would instantly get His meaning. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Exactlly.
What I wrote means that it's there front of us, but without help of the Holy Spirit we do not see it.
Imagine this, the Holy Spirit is like the light of the Sun and without it We could not read the book in the dark, when the Sun comes up, we can read the book cleary.

>Ultimately, studying the Word of God is going to change your viewpoint, radically. But there's no reason to require the change to be quick or instant. It'll change you over time as you lead your life.

It did change my life radically when I saw 1 &#8220;Do not let your hearts be troubled"(John14).
At that time I was suffering from my life, no security of income, theretened by devorce and runing out of viza.
I could not sleep many nights and I was getting phisically weak.
I was wondering why I didn't go crazy.
When I misstepped my foot, I realized that I needed a help.
I thought about the Bible I didn't open for a quite long time.
I turned pages of the Bible and stopped at a page, "Do not let your hearts be troubled" jumped into my eyes.
I felt someone standing at my shoulder and felt goosebump all over my body.
That was second experience I felt the Holy Spirit since I received Joy.

God's work is indeed mysterious.