Am I going to hell

[Sophia23]

I don't know which forum to put this in, so I decided to just put it here.

Am I going to hell? I am not a Christian, but I have met Christians who have said I am not so I would like to see the range of veiws.

I "feel" the existance of something I consider to be God, I have "seen" in physical and visionary reality (though telling between real and hallucinatory has always been an issue of mine) things that I beleive to be of God and spiritual realms. I largly develop my serious religious opinons from experience. I have never met Christ. I have seen and felt demonic presences aswell but to a far lesser degree (thank God! because ...scary!). I feel that I have a close and positive realtionship with God, but it is not well defined linguisticly, I couldn't talk about it or explain it really. I find it hard to beleive the God that I know would condem people to eternity in hell.

Hell is a very big issue for me, I have an ongoing morbid fascination with the hells of many beleif systems. Eternity is also an issue, I do not beleive that spirit is eternal, perhaps in the sense that matter and energy are eternal - some kind of spiritual matter might be, but spirit in the sense of "my" or something, I am less inclined to beleive.

I am a pan-entheist. I beleive the purpose of creation is to manifest God (who is already manifest because time is only liner from a normal consiousness perspective).

 

[seebs]

I have no idea whether or not you will go to Hell.

How do you react to people? Do you find what is good in them? When people are mean to you, do you become enraged, or do you find yourself feeling compassion for them?

Rather than worrying about which propositions you assert to be true, you should look at how you interact with the world.

If you believe in God, you may find that He is transforming you; making you more like yourself, and less like the accidents of history and biology which might otherwise constrain you.

If that happens, look closely at that one guy in the Gospels, and see if He doesn't look a little familiar.

All the rest is nattering to no real effect.

 

[Bonhoffer]

As much as it hurts me to say this you are very likely to be hellbound at the moment.
I know how cruel and ridiculus this may sound, but I feel it to be the truth.
I so much wish that people could acheive salvation through being a nice person etc.... but I dont think this is the truth because Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one gets to the father accept through me".

However I dont think that Hell is nessicarily quite the place that people imagine it to be. I see it more as an absence from God rather than extreme torture and a lake of fire.

I understand exactly where you are coming from when you think you have sensed God, and also the Devil. These sound like the experiences which I had before I was a Christian. To be honest I dont think that you have encountered God yet and all you have sensed (both good and bad) possibly is the Devil trying to trick you.
I only really 'knew' that I had met God after I prayed to let Jesus into my life.
I still didnt actually 'see' him, but I felt a loving pressence far big than anything else before. It was truly a religous experience. From then I 'knew' it was all true and I felt so glad that I had been saved.

The amazing thing is that it is SO easy to be saved. All you have to do is pray to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and thats it. I had an exam the next week which was more difficult than that!!

Of course its up to you what you do, but I seriously advise you to at least give this prayer a try. You have got nothing to lose from praying, but everything to lose from not praying. Praying like this (which may take some time) is the only way in which a person can prove to themselves if there is a God or not.

Good luck!!

 

[Sophia23]

So far interesting. Seebs, yes I see where you are coming from. I ...try and hold compassion as my guide in those sorts of matters. I do to be fair get angry a lot, but more in an abstract by myself kind of a way - like it is pure emotion, I don't think angry thoughts - I just feel a sense of power - which I equate with anger, usually use it for dancing or writing editorials about politics and the like (which I never use just save on my computer and never look at again).

Bonhoffer - the problem I find with that sort of prayer is I am deathly afraid I will lose myself, I don't want to make an irreverasble discision that will change me - I know I unwittingly make such descisions every day of my life, but I am afraid that I would become someone whos values and ideas are wholy alien to me, I am afraid of losing control of myself and of being sub-serviant to a being who's motives, intentions and ideology are unknown and possibly malignent.
The thing that scares me most about Christianity is that it might be true, but not entirly the way Christians think, that it is in fact malevolent, yet has all the power it claims to (and the only way to avoid its control is to exercise ones free will and refuse to submit - because I am so afraid that it might have some goal I am opposed to like the destruction of life or something, and that if I accept it - I will not be able to free myself from it).

 

[kimber1]

sophia, don't be afraid of losing yourself. even once you pray for Christ to enter your heart you still have free will. you still are free to make your own decisions through good and bad judgement. receiving Christ in your heart won't make you into a robot. but when you do something that is against God's command you must pray for forgiveness and strive from then on not to do that again. it's a work in progress just like all of us humans are; always striving to be better.

 

[Sharky]

I don't know which forum to put this in, so I decided to just put it here.

Am I going to hell? I am not a Christian, but I have met Christians who have said I am not so I would like to see the range of veiws.

I "feel" the existance of something I consider to be God, I have "seen" in physical and visionary reality (though telling between real and hallucinatory has always been an issue of mine) things that I beleive to be of God and spiritual realms. I largly develop my serious religious opinons from experience. I have never met Christ. I have seen and felt demonic presences aswell but to a far lesser degree (thank God! because ...scary!). I feel that I have a close and positive realtionship with God, but it is not well defined linguisticly, I couldn't talk about it or explain it really. I find it hard to beleive the God that I know would condem people to eternity in hell.

Hell is a very big issue for me, I have an ongoing morbid fascination with the hells of many beleif systems. Eternity is also an issue, I do not beleive that spirit is eternal, perhaps in the sense that matter and energy are eternal - some kind of spiritual matter might be, but spirit in the sense of "my" or something, I am less inclined to beleive.

I am a pan-entheist. I beleive the purpose of creation is to manifest God (who is already manifest because time is only liner from a normal consiousness perspective).

I'll have to be blunt. Yes. You are gonig to hell? Not because you want to but because your sin will drag you down there.

Which is why Jesus came to earth to save you from hell (or condemnation). I'm sure you know about this so i won't get too into it.

If your wondering what that higher being is it's God. Answers that eh?

To avoid hell, which was never for you in the first place you just gotta ask Jesus to save you. Simply pray a prayer to Him saying that you want Him to be Lord of your life.

After you're saved, You're covered from condemnation.

 

[snotling]

Blah blah blah, dont believe this nonsense, according to the bible jesus and god are actually the same thing, according to the trinity. Apparantly you cant have more then one god and since the trinity says there are 3, holy ghost, god and jesus then they are all one, believing in one is like believing in all. Im not very religious but thats what it says, dont blame me, according to christianity you be good you go to heaven and party down with god. If not you get condemned to hell by a big guy with a fiery sword. End of story.

 

[Bonhoffer]

Bonhoffer - the problem I find with that sort of prayer is I am deathly afraid I will lose myself, I don't want to make an irreverasble discision that will change me - I know I unwittingly make such descisions every day of my life, but I am afraid that I would become someone whos values and ideas are wholy alien to me, I am afraid of losing control of myself and of being sub-serviant to a being who's motives, intentions and ideology are unknown and possibly malignent.
The thing that scares me most about Christianity is that it might be true, but not entirly the way Christians think, that it is in fact malevolent, yet has all the power it claims to (and the only way to avoid its control is to exercise ones free will and refuse to submit - because I am so afraid that it might have some goal I am opposed to like the destruction of life or something, and that if I accept it - I will not be able to free myself from it).

Dear Sophia,

This is 'exactly' the sort of fear I had before I found God. I have always been (and still am) very critical of many parts of Christianity. My biggest fear was that I would become a fundamentalist and lose my logical thinking and open-mindedness. BUT this hasnt happened!!

I am still pretty much the same man as before. I still drink beer and crack naughty jokes. I still beleive in evolution (to some extent). There are still many conflicts between myself and Christianity, and there will always be things I'll struggle with. Even vicars will say this.
But I still veiw my decision to ask Jesus into my life as the best decision I have ever made.
You receive an incredible sense of love, peace and joy! Even if there was nothing after death its worth accepting Jesus just for the spiritual high. Its just the most indescribable happy feeling

All that has happened is that there is a new refreshing force behind my life now and rather than fearing death I am actually positively looking forward to it!!

I had worries before I prayed, but I once 'IT' had happened I no longer worried about those things anymore. The truth is that you will still be 'YOU' when Jesus is in your life. Liberals will still be liberals, they'll just be Christian liberals thats all!!

I'm still anti-Bush!!

And far from losing yourself, having Jesus in your life actually helps you find yourself!!!

Now okay it is true that once you have found Jesus you cant go back. However once you have found Jesus , YOU DONT WANT TO GO BACK!!!!

The month since I have found Jesus has been the happiest of my entire life!!!

If you are truly worried about losing yourself (which I was) then this is a good reason for praying.
Because I'm afraid that if you dont accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour in your lifetime then you are very likely to lose yourself FOREVER!!!! I'm not saying that to scare you. I'm saying it because it is true!
But the key thing is that only you can make the decision for yourself.

So I advise that you put your worries to one side and start praying. Its really that simple and I promise that if you find Jesus YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT!!!

God bless and good luck

Bonhoffer xxx

 

[Bonhoffer]

Blah blah blah, dont believe this nonsense, according to the bible jesus and god are actually the same thing, according to the trinity. Apparantly you cant have more then one god and since the trinity says there are 3, holy ghost, god and jesus then they are all one, believing in one is like believing in all. Im not very religious but thats what it says, dont blame me, according to christianity you be good you go to heaven and party down with god. If not you get condemned to hell by a big guy with a fiery sword. End of story.

Thats what I used to say.

If only you knew!!

 

[Miss Shelby]

I don't know which forum to put this in, so I decided to just put it here.

Am I going to hell? I am not a Christian, but I have met Christians who have said I am not so I would like to see the range of veiws.

I "feel" the existance of something I consider to be God, I have "seen" in physical and visionary reality (though telling between real and hallucinatory has always been an issue of mine) things that I beleive to be of God and spiritual realms. I largly develop my serious religious opinons from experience. I have never met Christ. I have seen and felt demonic presences aswell but to a far lesser degree (thank God! because ...scary!). I feel that I have a close and positive realtionship with God, but it is not well defined linguisticly, I couldn't talk about it or explain it really. I find it hard to beleive the God that I know would condem people to eternity in hell.

Hell is a very big issue for me, I have an ongoing morbid fascination with the hells of many beleif systems. Eternity is also an issue, I do not beleive that spirit is eternal, perhaps in the sense that matter and energy are eternal - some kind of spiritual matter might be, but spirit in the sense of "my" or something, I am less inclined to beleive.

I am a pan-entheist. I beleive the purpose of creation is to manifest God (who is already manifest because time is only liner from a normal consiousness perspective).

Sophia,

None of us can tell you the answer to that question. Those who purport that they can are being extremely presumptuous and it grieves me beyond words to see Christians coming in here and deciding that they know what condition your soul is in.

God knows what you've been through in your life, God knows your fears and why you have them. I don't think he wants you to be afraid of going to hell. So many Christians focus on whether or not people are 'saved' that they completely miss out what God's plan is, and that is for us to have life ON EARTH and have it abundantly.

Michelle

 

[GodOwnsMe]

mhhhh. heya =)
i cant say i am too familiar w/ being afraid of loosing myself when i trust God........cause even if i sometimes "forget" or w/e =) i believe God is perfect...absolutely awesome
coolness in itself not the way we label cool, what ive recently been thinking about
a lil is a line from a song (cover me by bebo norman) "and for each piece of mud, give me a piece of You"
when i think about it i sometimes seem 2 think my "mud" was better than God's stuff...but then as confuzzled as i am bout some stuff at the moment
i believe God is just plain good & perfect.............
dont mean that always fits w/ what i think is good tho.
& He can prevent u from becoming something that really isnt good (eg. fighting for wrong political views etc)

whaddoya think ??

 

[Sophia23]

& He can prevent u from becoming something that really isnt good (eg. fighting for wrong political views etc)

whaddoya think ??

why then do diffrent people, seemingly equaly Christian and sinceer happily fight for opposing beleifs?


All these veiws have been interesting, I feel... secure, at least on an "overall" sense regardless, I do feel intense spiritual joy, perhaps this is nothing compared to what is possible... but... man I am not even sure I could handle something more than that (as an ex druggie I can say it is WAAAAAY better than opiates or cocaine combined).
I at times feel... anti-good, evil even, and sometimes I have a desire to revel in things I consider to be "dark" ...but I generally try to keep myself away from that side of things. My desire to do "good" outwieghs my fascination with "evil". Which isn't to say I always hold true there - but I try.

The overwhelming Christian opinion seems to be that I am hellbound. I can't feel or beleive that, but I accept it as a possibility, a very sad and horrifying one.

Mmm

 

[seebs]

why then do diffrent people, seemingly equaly Christian and sinceer happily fight for opposing beleifs?

Because people love to fight over stupid stuff.

The overwhelming Christian opinion seems to be that I am hellbound. I can't feel or beleive that, but I accept it as a possibility, a very sad and horrifying one.

I tend to write it off as the natural tendency for belief systems to claim dire things about outsiders, because people love to do that.

Your concern about changing into someone else is a legitimate one. To make it a little spookier, some people who profess Christianity seem to have that very problem - the entity which is transforming them seems to be malevolent.

So far as I can tell, if you're actually dealing with the good guy, you are transformed into the thing which would have cast your previous self as a shadow; more you, not more something else.

I recommend reading what Jesus said, not what people say about Him.

 

[Svt4Him]

If you're a good person, no. You can take the good test here

 

[Miss Shelby]

The overwhelming Christian opinion seems to be that I am hellbound. I can't feel or beleive that, but I accept it as a possibility, a very sad and horrifying one.

Mmm

I wouldn't place a whole lot of stock in what the majority opinion seems to be in this thread. It's been my observation that many people who are eager to share the good news by making a judgement call on the state of another's soul are usually extremely immature Christians who have been recently converted to the faith.

Keep seeking. You'll be fine.

Michelle

 

[seebs]

Let's see what our founder said about this very question.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.

That answer your question?

 

[found1997]

I wouldn't place a whole lot of stock in what the majority opinion seems to be in this thread. It's been my observation that many people who are eager to share the good news by making a judgement call on the state of another's soul are usually extremely immature Christians who have been recently converted to the faith.

Well, this is a bit unfair, given that this person 1) says she's an unbeliever and 2) asks our opinion on whether she's going to hell or not.

And alas, the scriptural answer is yes, she's going to hell. But that should be the starting point for the discussion, not its hard-won conclusion. I think the critical point to be made is that we are not helpless in the matter. We can accept Christ, and that is a matter of our exercise of free will.

I find it sad that sophia suggests she is troubled and frightened by the prospect of hell, but feels unable to take the very step that would free her from the prospect. I want to add my testimony to some of the others here that becoming a Christian only enhances who you were before. It does not change your personality or turn you into a Republican or anything of the kind. This was my biggest fear as well, when I first started exploring Christianity (or maybe it started exploring me . . . I'm still not sure), and I remain the same skeptical, sarcastic, politically liberal, fashionably-dressed, pop-culture queen and registered Democrat that I was before -- the big difference is I'm saved.

What i would urge sophia to do is to really examine with an unbiased eye the truth claims of Christianity. A solid (although stylistically annoying) book is "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel. You might also check out Philip Jenkins' "The Lost Gospels," which has very interesting material on the historical authenticity and primacy of the Gospels. If you live in or near New York City, attend a service preached by Dr. Tim Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian Church.

Let me know how you are doing.

 

[Sophia23]

I am not afraid I will turn into a republican... more afraid I will lose my... dunno... my very essence - that I will turn into ...dunno, not Republican... something... so hard to explain.

And I don't think I am a good person, not in the least, a freind and I were discussing how people say about things "oh its terrible, I could NEVER do a thing like that" ...perhaps they couldn't, but I am not so deluded, I know I could, I also feel it is my duty not to. I see the potential for great evil within me - and it is my awareness of it that allows me to resist it and act for good.

Hmm, again all interesting,

 

[Sophia23]

Maybe thats what I am afraid of - that I will become one of those people who can't see that potential, I am afraid I will lose my awareness of and connection to my darker side, and in the process my control over it.

Then again perhaps not... that doesn't feel like what I mean...


Also, the thing that troubles me most about hell is not that I have to go there (if the opinions of many here are to be taken as truth) although I most ceirtainly would be\am troubled by such a prospect - but if I could make the choice to go to hell, and it meant no-one else would have to, I would gladly do so, even if it went against everything I beleive, and I am not trying to claim to be immensly altruistic here - because I am not, it is just that ...I have a minimal experience of suffering, but what I have had was enough - to instill, some, compassion... and I would think for ages... stall such a descision as long as possible, but if I could make it, in the end I would... because ...if nothing else I would think of my best freind, and how she would have to go through all that, when I was suicidal she cried because she didn't want me to die - but imagine how it would feel to know she was going to suffer worse than any earthly suffering - forever... and that my whole family would do the same, most of my other freinds, a fair few of the people I have admired over the ages (Oscar Wilde, Frederick Neitszche, Euripidies and Kafka to name a few)... I can't take that, I can't bear to think so many people I have loved, even if only through their writings after their deaths, I can't bear to think they have to go through that - I am close to tears writing this... how on earth could I become a Christian, and be able to enjoy heaven - knowing that they are in hell? How dare I, when I am far less than they were, when I have contributed nothing so beautiful as they have... how can I dare to have a better lot than them... it goes against my sense of right and wrong that they should suffer so...

 

[Miss Shelby]

Well, this is a bit unfair, given that this person 1) says she's an unbeliever and 2) asks our opinion on whether she's going to hell or not.

And alas, the scriptural answer is yes, she's going to hell. But that should be the starting point for the discussion, not its hard-won conclusion. I think the critical point to be made is that we are not helpless in the matter. We can accept Christ, and that is a matter of our exercise of free will.

I find it sad that sophia suggests she is troubled and frightened by the prospect of hell, but feels unable to take the very step that would free her from the prospect. I want to add my testimony to some of the others here that becoming a Christian only enhances who you were before. It does not change your personality or turn you into a Republican or anything of the kind. This was my biggest fear as well, when I first started exploring Christianity (or maybe it started exploring me . . . I'm still not sure), and I remain the same skeptical, sarcastic, politically liberal, fashionably-dressed, pop-culture queen and registered Democrat that I was before -- the big difference is I'm saved.

What i would urge sophia to do is to really examine with an unbiased eye the truth claims of Christianity. A solid (although stylistically annoying) book is "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel. You might also check out Philip Jenkins' "The Lost Gospels," which has very interesting material on the historical authenticity and primacy of the Gospels. If you live in or near New York City, attend a service preached by Dr. Tim Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian Church.

Let me know how you are doing.

Does every branch of Presbyterianism teach that you have the authority to place a determination on the soul of someone you've never met? You have no idea what her life experiences are, what her understanding and preconceptions of Christianity have been or any other factor that would weigh into how she will fare on judgement day. You do not know that she is hellbound. You could have very well given her the advice that you did about investigating Christianity without including your opinion about where she will end up. Last time I checked that was up to God. Wonder what he thinks about you placing yourself in a position that he reserves for himself?

Michelle