Am I a Sinner For Wanting to Divorce for This?

[mnphysicist]

Yes, we went through your typically church Christian counseling. Scriptures, lessons on handling issues, going to elder couples for council, the man's role, the woman's role, etc. However, after marriage happened she decided that was too much to handle and she would not be being herself if she was not a strong willed woman.

In light of what you mentioned about your father and parallels to your wife's behavior, is it possible you may be looking at things in a very complementarian domain?

If your wife leans more to the egalitarian side, (ie ...she would not be herself if she was not a strong willed woman) the difference in marriage views might be contributory to the difficulties you are running up against.

Ideally, this should have been addressed in pre-marital counseling... but many engaged folks think they can work through just about anything once they are married. Sadly, this often doesn't work out so great... and it takes a lot more work to address after marriage than before. Such is often compounded as one spouse will think things are fine, and all the while the other is freaking out.

Both views have scriptural support, but churches will often emphasize one more so than the other, in some cultures, churches may exclude one to the exception of the other. Such can lead credence to an upthread comment where you stated she feels counseling on her end is not needed. In a highly patriarchal society and/or a church that leans that way, this is a case where a counselor not associated with your church or even a non-religious counselor can be very beneficial... they see it a great deal, and have things that YOU can work on even if she is not initially willing.

 

[MrsBrit]

While hard on you, sometimes life is hard. That's life. And we cannot deny that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), right? I am of the view that God only "allows" divorce (but doesn't command it) and remarriage in the cases of marital infidelity and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse. Other colleagues take the position that a Christian is never authorized to divorce and, if he or she does, they must remain unmarried because they are married still to their former spouse in God's eyes. Either way, the situation described by the husband who initiated this thread and your parents' situation would not allow divorce, biblically, under either view.

It take two to fight. If one is seeking God and walking in fellowship with Him, I see unconditional love for the spouse who isn't coming to the forefront, as hard as it may be. And because of such a supernatural reaction, I see growth and conformity to the image of Christ resulting for that person. And that's a good thing. And who knows. Just like God's love for us wore us down to submission, couldn't we expect a spouse's unconditional love to have the same effect on their spouse and in their marriage?

It takes two committed people to make a marriage, one person cannot make a marriage work alone if the other partner does not feel the same level of commitment. You have no right to judge my parent's marriage because it was not really a marriage in any sense of the word, nor do you have any idea of the abuse we went through. My mother felt it was her duty to stay married but we all suffered because of her decision, little children should NOT have to live in this toxic situation. The husband who asked for help on this thread is trying his best to save his marriage but unless his wife is willing to work with him, and staying married takes much work, then their marriage will not survive. Sometimes silence and treating the other person with indifference can be as damaging as fighting.
Christians can and do divorce and go on to lead happy lives whether they remarry or not, it does not affect their faith in the Lord. God in His wisdom knows that we are all imperfect and as such can make mistakes in our choice of a spouse.

 

[Bill Hamilton]

You wrote, "Christians can and do divorce and go on to lead happy lives whether they remarry or not, it does not affect their faith in the Lord. God in His wisdom knows that we are all imperfect and as such can make mistakes in our choice of a spouse."

So, you're saying, "Who cares what God says, I'm going to do it my way! God understands." Yeah, right! I really suggest you read Blade's comment (#80) to see what I'm advocating here. Yes, it's radical, but Jesus was and is radical. And He gives us the ability to do the radical.

 

[Tull]

Anybody thinking about marriage read through this thread and think....real hard.

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Anybody thinking about marriage read through this thread and think....real hard.

True, but if God wants you married, learn as much about those possible spouses before you marry one! Know what you're getting into! Ultimately, between God wanting to teach us how to love unconditionally and wanting to conform us to the image of His Son, no matter who you feel He wants you to marry will be His instrument toward these ends.

 

[Goodbook]

Well...i havent read through every post just the OP you said you didnt have anyone to talk to what about your mother and father in law? Some parents know if their daughter or son isnt treating their spouse right they can then give them the hard word.
They (the spouse) may not listen but if the parents in law are christians they would be praying for your marriage to work.

They know what their daughter is like and the best way to handle her.

 

[Goodbook]

The only other thing is youve confessed you were wrong in hastily marrying this lady so you are now repenting at leisure. God is so gracious that hes willing to step in and fix our silly mistakes. Allow Him to work on your marriage by surrendering to Him..if your wife isnt following Him that shouldnt stop you from following Him. If she leaves because you are following Him then she wasnt really believer to begin with this is a test...keep praying for her.

 

[Edskii]

Let me start off my saying thank you for any input and feel free to tell me as it is I'm not one to shy away from the truth. Here is my situation:

I'm a young male and I thought I was marrying for the right reasons. She was a strong Christian, smart, liked to do the things I do, and a good person. Me, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life but I would like to think of myself as someone who typically tries to do the right thing by what Christ would recommend even if I fail a lot and must pray for forgiveness.

Well it turned out that getting married quickly to avoid sexual impurity was a bad idea. She doesn't like to do the things I do, she has a very bad temper and downright insults me often, wanting to have sex feels like I'm asking her for a million dollars sometimes, and she just has no consideration about how I feel about things such as how to raise a child it's always "this is what's going to happen".

And I'm no soft guy who can't be a man. I put my foot down quite often and just about every time it leads to insane arguments where she just becomes an empty shell that literally says nothing to me until he gets her way.

And again, I'm no saint I struggle every day as a Christian. But my question is am I wrong for wanting a divorce if I make her aware of all of this many times, request for us to get counseling that she claims she does not need, and honestly concerned about my sanity? This is not even about divorcing her to go marry someone else I just want to know is it right to live life this? Or is this God testing my resolve by giving me the ultimate irony in life. I come from a family where my dad was a terrible father and I have always sought to be a great father and husband. And now it's like my wife is my dad.

First of all, your history with your father has not given you a great picture of fatherhood. You still want to do the right thing, but who are you to decide what is right and what is wrong and for whom is right? Most people and modt

 

[MrsBrit]

You wrote, "Christians can and do divorce and go on to lead happy lives whether they remarry or not, it does not affect their faith in the Lord. God in His wisdom knows that we are all imperfect and as such can make mistakes in our choice of a spouse."

So, you're saying, "Who cares what God says, I'm going to do it my way! God understands." Yeah, right! I really suggest you read Blade's comment (#80) to see what I'm advocating here. Yes, it's radical, but Jesus was and is radical. And He gives us the ability to do the radical.

Please don't twist my words. Reread my comment! The last sentence sums it up.
What About Divorce and Remarriage? | Grace Communion International

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Please don't twist my words. Reread my comment! The last sentence sums it up.
What About Divorce and Remarriage? | Grace Communion International

I didn't think I was twisting your words, just quoting them. Besides, I was just relaying what I thought you were saying. Please clarify if I made a mistake.

 

[D. L. Dunnaville]

Let me start off my saying thank you for any input and feel free to tell me as it is I'm not one to shy away from the truth. Here is my situation:

I'm a young male and I thought I was marrying for the right reasons. She was a strong Christian, smart, liked to do the things I do, and a good person. Me, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life but I would like to think of myself as someone who typically tries to do the right thing by what Christ would recommend even if I fail a lot and must pray for forgiveness.

Well it turned out that getting married quickly to avoid sexual impurity was a bad idea. She doesn't like to do the things I do, she has a very bad temper and downright insults me often, wanting to have sex feels like I'm asking her for a million dollars sometimes, and she just has no consideration about how I feel about things such as how to raise a child it's always "this is what's going to happen".

And I'm no soft guy who can't be a man. I put my foot down quite often and just about every time it leads to insane arguments where she just becomes an empty shell that literally says nothing to me until he gets her way.

And again, I'm no saint I struggle every day as a Christian. But my question is am I wrong for wanting a divorce if I make her aware of all of this many times, request for us to get counseling that she claims she does not need, and honestly concerned about my sanity? This is not even about divorcing her to go marry someone else I just want to know is it right to live life this? Or is this God testing my resolve by giving me the ultimate irony in life. I come from a family where my dad was a terrible father and I have always sought to be a great father and husband. And now it's like my wife is my dad.

Solanus,
Let me start by saying that I totally feel your pain. - Seriously! I could've typed your words myself & sadly, I think you & I speak for many other men. To keep this brief: My chief input would be for you to GET VERTICAL! Aka: Let this trial be something which you allow God to use to shape godly character in you. I know this might sound like a Christian cliche or a platitude. It is definitely easier said than done. But the narrow path is one of pain versus ease. God uses pain to prune us so that we might produce fruit (John 15:2). Seek and trust God for Holy Spirit empowerment to become more than a conqueror (Romans 8:35-37) in all of this. Then you'll be able to redirect all of your hurt and frustration and use it for something which blesses others [& yourself]. I say all of this from a place of personal experience. - I'd love to talk with you more. I'm not too familiar with this forum so just look me up online (YouTube, FB, Twitter, blog etc) and then use one of my points of contact (e.g. FB messenger) to get in touch with me if you feel you'd appreciate further discussion. - The LORD bless you Brother!

 

[ljglazner]

Let me start off my saying thank you for any input and feel free to tell me as it is I'm not one to shy away from the truth. Here is my situation:

I'm a young male and I thought I was marrying for the right reasons. She was a strong Christian, smart, liked to do the things I do, and a good person. Me, I have made plenty of mistakes in my life but I would like to think of myself as someone who typically tries to do the right thing by what Christ would recommend even if I fail a lot and must pray for forgiveness.

Well it turned out that getting married quickly to avoid sexual impurity was a bad idea. She doesn't like to do the things I do, she has a very bad temper and downright insults me often, wanting to have sex feels like I'm asking her for a million dollars sometimes, and she just has no consideration about how I feel about things such as how to raise a child it's always "this is what's going to happen".

And I'm no soft guy who can't be a man. I put my foot down quite often and just about every time it leads to insane arguments where she just becomes an empty shell that literally says nothing to me until he gets her way.

And again, I'm no saint I struggle every day as a Christian. But my question is am I wrong for wanting a divorce if I make her aware of all of this many times, request for us to get counseling that she claims she does not need, and honestly concerned about my sanity? This is not even about divorcing her to go marry someone else I just want to know is it right to live life this? Or is this God testing my resolve by giving me the ultimate irony in life. I come from a family where my dad was a terrible father and I have always sought to be a great father and husband. And now it's like my wife is my dad.

I enjoyed your description. It does not sound like an awful marriage to me; it just sounds like a typical marriage. Two people, both sure they are right (and abused), and both sure the other person is the entire problem. That is the norm - the flesh norm; the world norm. A man of God must rise above that, not by running away from the situation (and especially not permanently!), but by changing yourself. It sounds like sometimes you should fight your battles longer and harder and not always give in. Sometimes you probably fight when you shouldn't be fighting at all. The problem with both of you is immaturity, which is a very solvable problem; it just takes time and persistence and constant learning and adjustment. Hang in there. The reason God said don't divorce is because he has the fix!! Read Romans 8. Make your wife's joy and peace and good your high priority. Be the servant. Lead by example. Love her to death, which is what you vowed to do, right? "Until death do us part"? Well fulfill your vow. When you are thinking, "If this gets too hard I'm going to leave" you lose the necessary motivation to improve adequately. Your attitude should be, "If I don't figure out how to fix this, I am going to be miserable for the rest of my life!" If you really can't stay, make the separation temporary. God never says you can't get some space when you need it. Pray lots for your wife as well as the situation. God can do amazing things for those who ask him to help and keep on doing what is right.

 

[ljglazner]

For me it comes down to this. Do you believe God wanted you to marry this woman or not?
That may be a tough question for as the bible says
We have deceitful hearts.
But you would need to search honestly for the answer.
Jesus said:
What God has joined together let no man put assunder.
If God showed you before you got married it was wrong to marry this woman, yet you went ahead and married her anyway, in my view you are doing nothing wrong by divorcing her. But you would need to know. To use it as an excuse to divorce her if you were not sure would probably lead to unhappiness for you.
That's just my opinion
God bless

That really is JUST YOUR OPINION. It has no basis in scripture or in Christian practice. The verse you quoted doesn't mean that you can divorce your wife if you feel it wasn't God that specifically brought you together. That phrase is used in weddings because it is God's comment on ALL marriages. IF you are married then God HAS joined you together & you are not to break that marriage apart. As you accurately said, there is a LOT of self deception when it comes to this area, because it is so emotional for those involved. If God was going to leave a loop hole that big on the issue, that if you feel God was not the one that brought you together then it is okay to divorce, he might as well not have said anything about it. EVeryone would suddenly be sure that it was not God that brought them together as soon as they wanted a divorce. Divorce makes everyone miserable. It isn't that, "I think if you divorced and you weren't exactly right about why, you might be unhappy." A divorce means that, in one of the most important things in your life, you FAILED utterly. I'm not saying that as a judgment of specific people, I'm saying that is a fact and people feel it in their souls for the rest of their life. Do not give people an out for divorce that God does not give.

 

[ljglazner]

Hi
Of course im not upset at what you wrote. Thank you for your post. Can I put a hypothetical situation to you?

God wants a certain man to do a certain work for him. However the man meets a non christian and marries her, in the process not following the path God wanted him to follow. He specifically disobeyed God by marrying the woman.
Do you believe God must now change the plans he had for the man, and fit in with what the man wants? Gods plan for the mans life can be ignored as he married a woman he shouldn't have and divorce is out of the question?

BTW

Gods plan for Hosea was to marry a prostitute. I am speaking of people who marry others whom God has not joined together

I know this wasn't written to me, but I wanted to warn you, Stuart, that you sound dangerously close to attempting to find a justification for what you WANT to do; not to know God's will, but to get around what you know God's will is. I've seen it so many times, especially in this type of circumstance. You can; I am certain of it. People do it all the time - justify their actions, find excuses to do what they wish, in spite of what God says. It does end in pain and damaged souls however. You can justify wrong actions, but they are still wrong. The reason God doesn't want you to divorce your wife is not to keep you miserable; it is to save you both from so much misery. He wants you to learn the lessons these wise men have recommended you learn (the books to read especially. They are concepts that make a big difference). I will say this with a fair degree of confidence: IF you divorce your wife you will be doing so in violation of scripture. You will find more misery than you imagine. You will have all the same problems if you get married again. These problems do not go away by marrying someone else. The problems are the PEOPLE involved, and that includes you. Fix the people and the problem will be gone. Run from the problem and you just postpone it, moving it on to the next relationship you have.

 

[stuart lawrence]

That really is JUST YOUR OPINION. It has no basis in scripture or in Christian practice. The verse you quoted doesn't mean that you can divorce your wife if you feel it wasn't God that specifically brought you together. That phrase is used in weddings because it is God's comment on ALL marriages. IF you are married then God HAS joined you together & you are not to break that marriage apart. As you accurately said, there is a LOT of self deception when it comes to this area, because it is so emotional for those involved. If God was going to leave a loop hole that big on the issue, that if you feel God was not the one that brought you together then it is okay to divorce, he might as well not have said anything about it. EVeryone would suddenly be sure that it was not God that brought them together as soon as they wanted a divorce. Divorce makes everyone miserable. It isn't that, "I think if you divorced and you weren't exactly right about why, you might be unhappy." A divorce means that, in one of the most important things in your life, you FAILED utterly. I'm not saying that as a judgment of specific people, I'm saying that is a fact and people feel it in their souls for the rest of their life. Do not give people an out for divorce that God does not give.

What if a man divorces his wife who has his children and married another woman, has God joined them together?
What if God specifically shows a man he should not marry a certain woman but he goes ahead and marries her anyway, has God joined them together?

 

[ljglazner]

What if a man divorces his wife who has his children and married another woman, has God joined them together?
What if God specifically shows a man he should not marry a certain woman but he goes ahead and married her anyway, has God joined them together?

Good question The ideal is that two people stay pure until marriage, get married for life and work out all problems together. That's God's ideal. I do believe that his WILL is for every married person to stay in their present marriage. I have friends who say that, since the second marriage is constant adultery, they should leave that second wife. God is trying to keep this two-people-become-one thing that he designed from being ripped apart, leaving two hurting, bloody halves where God intended a loving whole. It is true that people make such messes these days that it is difficult sometimes to make the call - people legally married to someone they haven't seen in a decade while living with someone they've been sort of married to for years; what is God's will then? Its a mess. Still, if God wanted us to divorce everyone we could justify as not God's best choice for us, there would be no point in telling us not to get divorced. Even as staight forward as he did put it, "Anyone who divorces his wife causes adultery" it is still justified by many people.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Good question The ideal is that two people stay pure until marriage, get married for life and work out all problems together. That's God's ideal. I do believe that his WILL is for every married person to stay in their present marriage. I have friends who say that, since the second marriage is constant adultery, they should leave that second wife. God is trying to keep this two-people-become-one thing that he designed from being ripped apart, leaving two hurting, bloody halves where God intended a loving whole. It is true that people make such messes these days that it is difficult sometimes to make the call - people legally married to someone they haven't seen in a decade while living with someone they've been sort of married to for years; what is God's will then? Its a mess. Still, if God wanted us to divorce everyone we could justify as not God's best choice for us, there would be no point in telling us not to get divorced. Even as staight forward as he did put it, "Anyone who divorces his wife causes adultery" it is still justified by many people.

So if God specifically showed me it was not his will for me to marry a particular person but I disobeyed God and married the person anyway God has joined us together?

 

[ljglazner]

The basis of God's joining people together is his plan that the "Two shall become one." He indicates this happens even in the case of someone visiting a prostitute! So he set it up so that when people join sexually, God makes them one - joins them together. This happens inside your body. Every other sin is outside your body, but sexual immorality is inside your body and is supposed to be permanent. This is how God joins a man and a woman together as one, not necessarily grabbing Barbie and Ken and jamming them together like we are dolls. So yes, even if you marry someone God has told you not to, you have become one by God's arrangement; therefore HE has joined you together. Does that make sense?

 

[stuart lawrence]

The basis of God's joining people together is his plan that the "Two shall become one." He indicates this happens even in the case of someone visiting a prostitute! So he set it up so that when people join sexually, God makes them one - joins them together. This happens inside your body. Every other sin is outside your body, but sexual immorality is inside your body and is supposed to be permanent. This is how God joins a man and a woman together as one, not necessarily grabbing Barbie and Ken and jamming them together like we are dolls. So yes, even if you marry someone God has told you not to, you have become one by God's arrangement; therefore HE has joined you together. Does that make sense?

You haven't become one by Gods arrangement if you have sex with a prostitute then marry her, for when Paul asks the question should we become one with a prostitute he replies
Never!!

The exception to this rule is Hosea, for God specifically told him to marry a prostitue. In this instance it was part of Gods plan for his life.
However, the real bone of contention is this.
You believe whoever you marry God has joined you together as one flesh. I certainly do not accept, nor ever will this refers to ALL cases of marriage

You cannot plainly disobey God by marrying someone he has told you not to marry, and then say God has joined you together as one flesh. You have joined yourself together as one flesh with another, God was not part of it!

 

[ljglazner]

That is an understandable position, certainly. The idea of joining yourself to a prostitute has no connotation of marriage when Paul says "Never". You are not joining her as part of her prostitution if you were marrying her. I would be interested if you have any Biblical support for your concept that it is fine to divorce your wife if God did not join you together. I suppose you could say that the divorces demanded in Ezra support it, though I can't find anything but a historic account of what happened there; God never says whether he approves of it or not.
I wrote this on the e-mail alerting me that you had responded to my comments, but feared it would not show up here, so c/p it here - hope it isn't a repeat.