Am I A Biggot?

[Yusuf Evans]

It would seem that you're being intolerant and that you're also passing judgment. I would say you're no better than the one who throws around racial slurs.

Read 4 posts above you on how I was raised and how I treat people today.

 

[Pheehp]

saying something is sinful =\= saying you dont think its best.

sinful is an ultimate statement (ultimate because its believed to be the word of an infalable being), what you think is an oppinion.

so indeed you cant say that your claim of homosexuality being wrong is an oppinion when you invoke your god and sin.

despite you thinking there is a difference between actively being judgemental and merely judging that someone is "wrong" a judgement is carried out. you are judging the person by a law supposedly created by a being who may not exist. dont pretend not to be judgemental when you're claiming someone is living the wrong way as it is a judgement to say so.

i am judgemental, i dont deny it. but i dont judge ppl on what is right and wrong purely cause a god said so - i usually need justification.

"cause i said so" isnt a reason.

 

[Lokisdottir]

No, you're not a bigot. You've shown in your posts that you have no hatred toward gays -- at least, no more than you would have toward gluttons, or the envious, or greedy people, or...

This is a view that many people claim to espouse, but betray through their actions. As in, "I hate the sin, not the sinner! Really, I do! I just don't think they ought to be able to have jobs or live in Christian neighborhoods, is all." You, on the other hand, seem to be the real deal. I may not agree with your opinion, but I respect it.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

saying something is sinful =\= saying you dont think its best.

sinful is an ultimate statement (ultimate because its believed to be the word of an infalable being), what you think is an oppinion.

so indeed you cant say that your claim of homosexuality being wrong is an oppinion when you invoke your god and sin.

despite you thinking there is a difference between actively being judgemental and merely judging that someone is "wrong" a judgement is carried out. you are judging the person by a law supposedly created by a being who may not exist. dont pretend not to be judgemental when you're claiming someone is living the wrong way as it is a judgement to say so.

i am judgemental, i dont deny it. but i dont judge ppl on what is right and wrong purely cause a god said so - i usually need justification.

"cause i said so" isnt a reason.

Where have I judged someone, or passed judgement upon them? I stated a religious view I hold, and said that the issue is between the person and the Lord, no one else. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors, but I think this thread has run it's course. I've gotten the information I needed from it, and I hope it's helped others along the way.

 

[MN John]

Am I a biggot if I:

1) State that homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God.

2) If I state homosexuality is a sin, just as is pre-marital sex, gluttony, greed, and slothfullness?

3) If though I think homosexuality is a sin, it does not mean that injustice nor denial of civil rights should take place because of said sin.

Now, tell me if I'm a biggot? If so, please provide evidence?

If by "homosexuality" you mean the actions, then I would say no. If you mean the predilection, temptations, etc, then I would say yes.

Kleptomania is not a sin. stealing is a sin. A kleptomaniac has a predilection to stealing and is tempted more than others to steal. But the sin isn't what he is, it is what he does.

Being gay is a curse, not a sin. What matters is how the person handles his temptations and predilections.

 

[seebs]

saying something is sinful =\= saying you dont think its best.

sinful is an ultimate statement (ultimate because its believed to be the word of an infalable being), what you think is an oppinion.

Huh?

Obviously, we're talking about my opinion. If I say a given thing is a sin, obviously I am giving my opinion.

so indeed you cant say that your claim of homosexuality being wrong is an oppinion when you invoke your god and sin.

Well, it can hardly be anything but an opinion.

despite you thinking there is a difference between actively being judgemental and merely judging that someone is "wrong" a judgement is carried out. you are judging the person by a law supposedly created by a being who may not exist. dont pretend not to be judgemental when you're claiming someone is living the wrong way as it is a judgement to say so.

Well, duh. When we say "I'm not sure the slaughter of all who oppose you is a good thing", we're making judgments.

The problem comes when we go from saying "I don't think you should do that" to "Because you do that, you are less valuable".

i am judgemental, i dont deny it. but i dont judge ppl on what is right and wrong purely cause a god said so - i usually need justification.

Well, yeah. That's what I'm doing too; I have a solid moral model which, although I do base some of my belief in it on the teachings of Christianity, is nonetheless somewhat verifiable and tested.

"cause i said so" isnt a reason.

Sure. But you didn't ask about reasons, and reasons don't change anything. If I have a brilliant and well-supported reason for my belief, and because of it I decide that a given person isn't really deserving of human rights, that's a pretty serious problem, even though I have a "reason" for it.

 

[TooCurious]

If you're really curious, you could try praying to Him to see if you get an answer. I'm serious. Ask Him to reveal the answer and to just answer you. Seriously. Just one time go somewhere you can be alone and undisturbed and just go and open your mind, and talk to Him like he's really there, and ask him to give you a sign that you will recognize. Make it something you'll know when you see it.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner on this topic; my schedule has been odd for the past couple of days.

However, as I promised, the other night I attempted what you suggested, entering into it sincerely and honestly. As you suggested, I described a "sign" that I would readily recognize if it occured. It did not occur, and I received no other perceivable response.

Meanwhile, would you be willing to respond to the question I asked in my first post on this thread? I am still interested in hearing people's thoughts on the subject.

 

[seebs]

I agree that your position as described in #3 means that you are not a bigot.

This is slightly off-topic, but as we're on the subject, I hope you don't mind if I ask a question that's had me wondering for some time, and I've never really gotten a complete answer about it. For what reason, or with what motivation, did God decide that homosexual intercourse ought to be considered "sinful"? And I don't expect you to know the mind of God, but if you could speculate, it might help satisfy my curiosity.

Tragically, I don't think I can offer an answer to this, because I have yet to find any evidence that the phenomenon has occurred, leaving the question of its reasoning rather theoretical.

 

[selfinflikted]

Being gay is a curse, not a sin. What matters is how the person handles his temptations and predilections.

A curse? Please elaborate... I'm interested in hearing this. Cursed by.. god?

 

[TooCurious]

Tragically, I don't think I can offer an answer to this, because I have yet to find any evidence that the phenomenon has occurred, leaving the question of its reasoning rather theoretical.

That's entirely fair; I don't happen to be under the impression that the aforementioned phenomenon has occured either (as you can probably tell from my faith icon). I guess my question was directed more at those people who believe that it has. Thanks for your response, though!

 

[Pheehp]

Sin is an oppinion that something is morally wrong given by god - is this a correct statement?

the god you worship is infalable - this too?

thats gods oppinions are never wrong and are basically facts and laws.

by you saying you think something is wrong and justifying it through calling it a sin you arent stating an oppinion but as you see it a fact. (only if you actually believe in and everything about your god)

therefore you are (in your eyes) telling someone without possibility for wiggle room that they are wrong, which without possible proof is judgemental. you can judge other christians by gods laws but not ppl of other faiths or nonfaiths. any nonchristian homosexuals should be exempt from christian justified judgements otherwise you are crossing a line and imposing. (have oppinions that homosexuals are being sinful or whatever but dont tell them and dont let your oppinions affect them outside a christian setting, its just common curtousy)

sorry for any confusion KalEl76, seebs and i were having a mini debate on your thread.