Alpha Course

[New_Wineskin]

The variations on Alpha, such as student Alpha, youth Alpha, prison Alpha, lunchtime Alpha, morning Alpha and Alpha for retired people all come from HTB.

I edited my post .

 

[New_Wineskin]

There's nothing about denominationalism on the course, even in the section entitled, "What about the Church?".

By refusing to define the term and by giving denominational variations , it is about denomination . The typical idea behind "What about church" is about attendance . By not defining the concept , they know people will concider that is what that topic concerns .

Telling others is a basic part of Christianity - is there a church that doesn't believe this?

http://alphacourse.org/welcome/whatisit/index.htm

You stated that it was pre-catechism . That is not a pre-catechism concept .

 

[Naomi4Christ]

You have to remember that it is Church of England, so it's never going to be too outrageous.

If you are interested, you come. If you don't like it, you leave - no one is going to call you up and hassle you to come back.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

By refusing to define the term and by giving denominational variations , it is about denomination . The typical idea behind "What about church" is about attendance . By not defining the concept , they know people will concider that is what that topic concerns .

Telling others is a basic part of Christianity - is there a church that doesn't believe this?

http://alphacourse.org/welcome/whatisit/index.htm

You stated that it was pre-catechism . That is not a pre-catechism concept .

Pre-catechetical is what I said. The reason it doesn't give denominational variation is because that's what you get into after Alpha. Alpha is just the start of the Christian journey. The section "What about the Church" is about being part of a Christian community so that you can build your faith in the fellowship of other Christians - to be part of the Body of Christ.

 

[New_Wineskin]

You have to remember that it is Church of England, so it's never going to be too outrageous.

I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .

If you are interested, you come. If you don't like it, you leave - no one is going to call you up and hassle you to come back.

Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Why the secrecy ? That is a red flag to me .

 

[New_Wineskin]

Pre-catechetical is what I said.

I know . That is what I said that you said . It isn't .

The reason it doesn't give denominational variation is because that's what you get into after Alpha.

The site states that there was a different denominational course for Catholics and implies a different one to a few other denominations . Perhaps , it was the wording .

Alpha is just the start of the Christian journey. The section "What about the Church" is about being part of a Christian community so that you can build your faith in the fellowship of other Christians - to be part of the Body of Christ.

There was no mention on the site about *what* it meant . And , your statement could also be construed as meaning that specific group attendance is a basic part of being a Christian . And , that is denominationalism . That is from where I am coming .

 

[New_Wineskin]

I came from that link . That page is why I asked for more detailed general outline . That only states certain topics but not what they mean by them or a basic understanding of their approach to those topics .

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .

Holy Trinity Brompton is a Church of England church. The course started up as a Christian basics course for use within their own church. The course spread to other Anglican churches about 15 years ago, and was then found to have more broad appeal within the UK so they started advertising it. Shortly afterwards, it spread around the world. So, the doctrine is very much in line with the Church of England, but I don't think there is anything really that other denominations would object to. It does not discuss things like infant baptism which may be objected to by some churches, for example.

Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Sitting down and having a meal together is basic Christian hospitality. There is no ulterior motive other than to say to people that Christians are normal, happy people, who are not weird. The Alpha Course starts of with the Alpha Supper, where the food is a bit grander than usual, and the talk very brief - it's called Christianity - Boring, Irrelevent, Untrue? - and it's just an introduction to the course. It invites you to join the course if you want to find out more. The course proper doesn't start until the next session - there is absolutely no obligation to keep coming. But that is the introduction to the course, without any secrecy.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I came from that link . That page is why I asked for more detailed general outline . That only states certain topics but not what they mean by them or a basic understanding of their approach to those topics .

If you want to know more than is on that page, let me know.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I see that this *could* become heated .

You like the course . I consider their main site to be secretive . Many who are "unchurched" have come from manipulative and even cultish groups . Some of us don't like to leap into things without a good heads-up . It may not be the intent to be secretive . But , I wouldn't suggest to someone to take the chance .

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I certainly don't want to get into a debate on this, and aware that it would be inappropriate for me to do so.

But I am happy to clarify anything and answer questions about the course.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Holy Trinity Brompton is a Church of England church. The course started up as a Christian basics course for use within their own church. The course spread to other Anglican churches about 15 years ago, and was then found to have more broad appeal within the UK so they started advertising it. Shortly afterwards, it spread around the world. So, the doctrine is very much in line with the Church of England, but I don't think there is anything really that other denominations would object to. It does not discuss things like infant baptism which may be objected to by some churches, for example.



Sitting down and having a meal together is basic Christian hospitality. There is no ulterior motive other than to say to people that Christians are normal, happy people, who are not weird. The Alpha Course starts of with the Alpha Supper, where the food is a bit grander than usual, and the talk very brief - it's called Christianity - Boring, Irrelevent, Untrue? - and it's just an introduction to the course. It invites you to join the course if you want to find out more. The course proper doesn't start until the next session - there is absolutely no obligation to keep coming. But that is the introduction to the course, without any secrecy.

Ok . Thanks , for the info .

I see what you are saying .

 

[Naomi4Christ]

One more thing about cultish stuff (and I admit to not knowing a lot about this), but Alpha is a course that is run by churches. It is not a church in its own right. When you do the course, and if you give your life to Christ, it's likely that you will simply keep going to that church - so to that extent you know a little of what you are getting into. Even if the Alpha course is taking place in a pub, it should be clear to you that this is the initiative of a local church.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Ok . Thanks , for the info .

No probs!

 

[SNPete]

I didn't notice that it was a part of that denom . For me , being a part of an older denomination is outrageous in and of itself .



Exactly . That is what cults do . At least , they could give a general idea comcerning from where they are coming . Taking the time to be with strangers that teach something ; eat their food so that the average person would feel obligated to stay through the entire session ; and , giving very little information about the course ahead of time all should bring out people's caution .

Why the secrecy ? That is a red flag to me .

Dang it man. It is simply a tape series on the basics of the faith.

I suggest that you view it before making speculative judgments on Its content. Must it line up perfectly with your doctrinal view to be not of the devil?

None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40

 

[discernomatic]

None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40

The problem is the doctrine. There is always the possibility of a new program that spreads a false gospel. I will check the Alpha course out by taking it at the next opportunity and will write a full report of my findings. But having been deceived in the past by seemingly innocuous doctrines and messages, I am wary about all new programs. Each one must be scrutinized carefully according to Scripture. The gospel is very basic, it generally does not take long to find out if a new gimmick or program is conforming to it or not. The problem is that most people are trying to compare these programs to man-made doctrines, however biblically based they might be. Usually where there is smoke there is fire. Some that I see as very discerning people have written critiques about the Alpha Course, and usually they are not far off from reason and sound doctrine. That is why I will check it out for myself. But I do not recommend this to any that have not trained themselves at least somewhat in discernment. Going naively into such a situation would be irresponsible.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Dang it man. It is simply a tape series on the basics of the faith.

I suggest that you view it before making speculative judgments on Its content. Must it line up perfectly with your doctrinal view to be not of the devil?

And , I suggest that you follow your own suggestion ( and thus being free of hypocracy ) by viewing my posts before making judgements . And , must *my* posts line up with *your* doctrinal view to be not of the devil ?

If you read my post that you quoted , you would see that my problem is that they *won't* allow it to be viewed first . Yet , you suggest viewing it first .

None of us have the final word on what is the perfect doctrine. None of us attend the perfect church. I think we should not judge other churches or ministers that do a good work. Jesus said that those who do things different fom us, but are on the same page should be supported. Mark 9:38-40

You just contradicted yourself . In order to know of "churchs" that "do a good work" , you already judged them as doing so .

How can you know if it is on the basics of "the faith" before you go to one ? That was my question . The site does not give enough information - it is too secretive , imo . Others may not have a problem with that . But , I have known cults that do this type of thing . I have a right to be cautious .

 

[SNPete]

And , I suggest that you follow your own suggestion ( and thus being free of hypocracy ) by viewing my posts before making judgements . And , must *my* posts line up with *your* doctrinal view to be not of the devil ?

If you read my post that you quoted , you would see that my problem is that they *won't* allow it to be viewed first . Yet , you suggest viewing it first .




You just contradicted yourself . In order to know of "churchs" that "do a good work" , you already judged them as doing so .

How can you know if it is on the basics of "the faith" before you go to one ? That was my question . The site does not give enough information - it is too secretive , imo . Others may not have a problem with that . But , I have known cults that do this type of thing . I have a right to be cautious .

I am not judging you. I am very flexable on nonesential doctrine. As a matter of fact, I get very annoyed at folks who say I must agree with them 100% or be of the devil. So I apologized for any unintended offense.

Um, one suggestion re viewing the series. You may be able to find a church in your area that is conducting the Alpha series in your town. You don't know me or where I stand, but with that said, I have found the Alpha series to be one of the better outreach series. Solid doctrine and with appropiate British humor. Funny and to the point.

Re the cult issue. Well, the Anglican Church is not a cult.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

The problem is the doctrine. There is always the possibility of a new program that spreads a false gospel.

The course was started within a Church of England parish. The only non-biblical doctrine for Anglicans is the doctrine of the Trinity. It is fairly safe, I think. The Anglican doctrinal position is one of the reasons why the course works so well within other denominations, because there isn't really anything added onto it that other churches could object to.

The main objections to the Alpha Course from some Church of England churches is that they feel that there is too much emphasis on the Holy Spirit. But that's from the church-reticent wing of the Church of England, so not surprising.

The thing about Catholic Alpha is, in my personal opinion, the 'not invented here' syndrome. The RCC would not endorse the course without some of their own input on it. I've never been on Catholic Alpha, but I think that it is much the same as regular Alpha with a couple of extra sessions to be a bridge between Alpha and Rite of Catholic Iniatiation for Adults. I don't think Protestant churches, including Anglican churches, have anything as formal as this kind of preparation to become a member/communicant of the church, so for Alpha folks just blend into the life of the churches they join (hopefully with appropriate discipleship learning).

 

[New_Wineskin]

I am not judging you. I am very flexable on nonesential doctrine. As a matter of fact, I get very annoyed at folks who say I must agree with them 100% or be of the devil. So I apologized for any unintended offense.

I came in to re-edit my post in case you didn't respond as of yet . I was flustered yesterday since I thought that I was through with that portion of my thought . I also do not like people telling me what to think but allow them to do so .

Um, one suggestion re viewing the series. You may be able to find a church in your area that is conducting the Alpha series in your town. You don't know me or where I stand, but with that said, I have found the Alpha series to be one of the better outreach series. Solid doctrine and with appropiate British humor. Funny and to the point.

Ok . Thanks .

Re the cult issue. Well, the Anglican Church is not a cult.

Yeah . That was a sticking point somewhere in this thread .