All through our wild days, will God keep his promise?

[Xeno.of.athens]

The thread title is not completely accurate, but it occurred to me while listening to Madonna sing "Don't cry for me Argentina" so take that as you will

But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality.​

I was thinking on the words above in italics.

Are they true?

 

[Ceallaigh]

I suppose, especially from the Catholic perspective, whether or not that means venial sins as opposed to mortal sins. And or mortal sin that was absoloved.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I suppose, especially from the Catholic perspective, whether or not that means venial sins as opposed to mortal sins. And or mortal sin that was absoloved.

For Catholic Christians they are true because the are inspired.

 

[Ceallaigh]

For Catholic Christians they are true because the are inspired.

"Don't cry for me Argentina" is inspired?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"Don't cry for me Argentina" is inspired?

No, the song and the musical are not inspired by God, though some may find either or both inspiring.

And yes, the topic's title is inspired by the song's lyrics, from the line in the song that goes

All through my wild days, my mad existence,​

I kept my promise, don't keep your distance.​

 

[Ceallaigh]

No, the song and the musical are not inspired by God, though some may find either or both inspiring.

And yes, the topic's title is inspired by the song's lyrics, from the line in the song that goes

All through my wild days, my mad existence,​

I kept my promise, don't keep your distance.​

I'm not sure what message you're conveying.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality. I was thinking on the words above in italics. Are they true?

I'm not sure what message you're conveying.

Does the slight adjustment to the original post, shown above, help?

 

[Clare73]

The thread title is not completely accurate, but it occurred to me while listening to Madonna sing "Don't cry for me Argentina" so take that as you will

But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality.​

I was thinking on the words above in italics.
Are they true?

They are true of the born again.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

They are true of the born again.

Am I right to think that in your vocabulary, "the born again", means the elect who are effectually called regardless of whether they are baptised or not because (in your vocabulary) the born again are predestined to salvation.

 

[Clare73]

Am I right to think that in your vocabulary, "the born again", means the elect who are effectually called regardless of whether they are baptised or not because (in your vocabulary) the born again are predestined to salvation.

Regarding the veracity of the Biblical statement you presented, my vocabulary is that of Jn 3:3-8, and its meaning of "born from above" as the spiritual cleansing and impartation of eternal (God's divine) life to one's spirit.

 

[Blade]

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken and will He not make it good and fulfill it?"

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Regarding the veracity of the Biblical statement you presented, my vocabulary is that of Jn 3:3-8, and its meaning of "born from above" as the spiritual cleansing and impartation of eternal (God's divine) life to one's spirit.

Yep, what you mean is unbaptised

And what Jesus said "really means" except a man be born of water is spiritually cleansed and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Got it.

Many thanks.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

@Clare73 - them be good words eh? in the original post.

I like them.

 

[Clare73]

Yep, what you mean is unbaptised

Water baptism is not necessary to salvation (new birth) as it was not necessary for the thief on the cross.

In 1 Jn 5:5-6, where John is reacting to Gnosticism's assertion that Jesus' divinity was only temporary, descending on him at his baptism and departing from him before the cross, John insists that Jesus was the Son of God at both his baptism and his death.
The divine Son of God "came by both water and blood" (v.6). "Water" here being in response to Gnostic assertions specifically in regard to Jesus' baptism, and not being a statement regarding the necessity of water baptism to salvation.

In Jn 3:3-8, where being spiritually "born from above" is about spiritual cleansing and impartation of spiritual eternal (God's divine) life to one's spirit by the Holy Spirit, water refers to spiritual cleansing, and is not a statement of the necessity of water baptism to salvation.

In Ro 6:1-14, NT baptism is about dying to sin and living a new life in Christ.

Yes, water baptism is to be administered to the Christian, but it is not necessary for salvation, just as it was not to the thief on the cross.
Water baptism is the NT correspondence (dying to sin as Christ died for sin, Ro 6:1-14) to the OT circumcision (Col 1:11-12)
of cutting off (dying to) the (sinful) flesh.

And what Jesus said "really means" except a man be born of water is spiritually cleansed and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Got it.
Many thanks.

More like: except a man be born of water (spiritually cleansed) and the Holy Spirit (eternal divine life of God be imparted by the Holy Spirit to his spirit), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The thread title is not completely accurate, but it occurred to me while listening to Madonna sing "Don't cry for me Argentina" so take that as you will

But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality.​

I was thinking on the words above in italics.

Are they true?

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I don't even know where those words come from. They don't sound like scripture to me. They sound like someone who felt amazingly grateful one day, had an epiphany, and tried to write it down as poetically as he could.

If you think they are true, can you explain how to know God's justice, and how to know God's power, is the 'root of immortality', whatever that is?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I don't even know where those words come from. They don't sound like scripture to me.

The words are from the scriptures, in the books that protestants rejected.

They sound like someone who felt amazingly grateful one day, had an epiphany, and tried to write it down as poetically as he could.

It isn't poetry but wisdom literature. Like the Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes. Unfortunately a 39 book old testament limits the wisdom literature to Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes. That leaves out Wisdom and Sirach.

The KJV translates thus: Wisdom 15:1-3 But thou, O God, art gracious and true, longsuffering, and in mercy ordering all things, 2 For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy power: but we will not sin, knowing that we are counted thine. 3 For to know thee is perfect righteousness: yea, to know thy power is the root of immortality.

And the Douay Rheims translates thus: Wisdom 15:1-3 But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. 2 For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. 3 For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality.

If you think they are true, can you explain how to know God's justice, and how to know God's power, is the 'root of immortality', whatever that is?

Immortality is God's life, as the scripture says 1 Timothy 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Mark Quayle said:
If you think they are true, can you explain how to know God's justice, and how to know God's power, is the 'root of immortality', whatever that is?

Immortality is God's life, as the scripture says 1 Timothy 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

So, can you show me how your quote from 1 Timothy says that, or even implies that, knowing God's justice and God's power, is the "root of immortality"?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The thread title is not completely accurate, but it occurred to me while listening to Madonna sing "Don't cry for me Argentina" so take that as you will

But thou, our God, art gracious and true, patient, and ordering all things in mercy. For if we sin, we are thine, knowing thy greatness: and if we sin not, we know that we are counted with thee. For to know thee is perfect justice: and to know thy justice, and thy power, is the root of immortality.​

I was thinking on the words above in italics.

Are they true?

They are most certainly true. For the Scriptures continually bear witness to the faithfulness of God. There is a father who rushes headlong, recklessly to meet the son who had pronounced his father dead to him and dwelt among mud and swine. There is a shepherd who rushes out of the sheepfold to search high and low to find even just one tiny little lamb that becomes lost. He, we are told, is Faithful even when we are faithless. His love is enduring, His goodness is never ceasing. His kindness cannot be thwarted.

Luther called Christ "Heaven's bloodhound", that He is relentless in His pursuit to find us and to love us.

We must always remember these two truths: That where sin abounds, grace super-abounds; but that grace is no excuse to sin. For though in our sin, God is merciful, forgiving us all of our sins; yet sin, left in its natural course, will destroy us, leading to shipwreck. So St. John tells us that there is sin that does not lead to death, and sin that does lead to death.

It is never a matter of God's faithfulness--He is always faithful. But if we spurn and pour contempt on the promises and faithfulness of God, and keep going our own way, we will continue to inhibit, hamper, and harm our faith. And without that faith, we are dashed against the rocks by violent waves.

Christ will never abandon us, but may we never abandon Christ, who is our Refuge, Shelter, and Bulwark against sin, death, hell, and the devil--for He alone has conquered them. His faithfulness is certain, but we are fickle; we must cling to Christ in all things, through faith.

-CryptoLutheran