All things

[Hammster]

Allowed is not decreed or ordained God did not make the devil or people sin, they rebelled and sinned themselves.

That’s a difference without a distinction.

 

[NBB]

That’s a difference without a distinction.

Why would God ordain all the sick actions of man? that does not make any sense.
Allowing evil is not the same as deciding what every person would do of those evils.

 

[Hammster]

Why would God ordain all the sick actions of man? that does not make any sense.

He used the sick actions of men to save Israel from the famine. He used the sick actions of men in Job to show His greatness. He used the sick actions of men to judge Israel. And He used the sick actions of men to crucify His Son.

Allowing evil is not the same as deciding what every person would do of those evils.

How is it different?

 

[A_Thinker]

Um...all things.

So ... He's working together ALL of HIS DECREES ?

IMO, a significant argument against this ... is that God says He is NOT the source of sin.

So, ... sin is NOT His decree.

Yet, God also says that sin exists.

So then, the ALL (which includes sin) ... is NOT, simply, the ALL of His decrees ...

 

[Hammster]

So ... He's working together ALL of HIS DECREES ?

IMO, a significant argument against this ... is that God says He is NOT the source of sin.

So, ... sin is NOT His decree.

Yet, God also says that sin exists.

So then, the ALL (which includes sin) ... is NOT, simply, the ALL of His decrees ...

Let me ask you this. Could God have prevented sin from entering creation?

 

[NBB]

He used the sick actions of men to save Israel from the famine. He used the sick actions of men in Job to show His greatness. He used the sick actions of men to judge Israel. And He used the sick actions of men to crucify His Son.

How is it different?

That is transforming the bad in good like the bible says, but planning every sick action (include any nasty useless, sinful worthless action?) I don't think so.

 

[Hammster]

That is transforming the bad in good like the bible says, but planning every sick action (include any nasty useless, sinful worthless action?) I don't think so.

You may want to look deeper into those accounts.

 

[NBB]

You may want to look deeper into those accounts.

God is light and there is no darkness in him, he is not the source of all the crap people do.

 

[A_Thinker]

Let me ask you this. Could God have prevented sin from entering creation?

Of course, ... He allowed it.

But that has to be correlated with God testimony that He is NOT the source of sin.

When you think about it, it makes sense logically.

God has a WILL, ... and anything against HIS WILL ... is sin ...

 

[A_Thinker]

My question is for those who don’t think that God decrees all that comes to pass. How do you give thanks to God in all things if He’s not in charge of all things?

Another point to ponder ... is Jesus' prayer in the garden, which He ends with ... "Not my will, ... but Thy will be done."

If ALL is God's will, ... then what is Jesus saying here ?

For that matter, ... what is Jesus instructing us to pray when He gives His model prayer, ... "Thy kingdom come, ... They WILL be done ... in earth as it is in heaven" ?

If God's will is the only will that can be accomplished, ... then why does Jesus instruct us to pray for His will to be done ?

 

[Hammster]

God is light and there is no darkness in him, he is not the source of all the crap people do.

I never said anything about source. I’m not even sure what is meant by that. But even a cursory study of the events I mentioned would lead you to know that they all happened because it was God’s will that they happened.

 

[Hammster]

Of course, ... He allowed it.

But that has to be correlated with God testimony that He is NOT the source of sin.

When you think about it, it makes sense logically.

God has a WILL, ... and anything against HIS WILL ... is sin ...

Do you think He had a purpose for allowing it?

 

[Hammster]

Another point to ponder ... is Jesus' prayer in the garden, which He ends with ... "Not my will, ... but Thy will be done."

If ALL is God's will, ... then what is Jesus saying here ?

For that matter, ... what is Jesus instructing us to pray when He gives His model prayer, ... "Thy kingdom come, ... They WILL be done ... in earth as it is in heaven" ?

If God's will is the only will that can be accomplished, ... then why does Jesus instruct us to pray for His will to be done ?

So that we will be obedient.

 

[A_Thinker]

So that we will be obedient.

As opposed to DISOBEDIENT, ... which would be CONTRARY to the will of God ?

 

[Hammster]

As opposed to DISOBEDIENT, ... which would be CONTRARY to the will of God ?

Of course. But God is in control even if that. My disobedience will ultimately be used for His glory.

 

[All Glory To God]

That is transforming the bad in good like the bible says, but planning every sick action (include any nasty useless, sinful worthless action?) I don't think so.

The unrepentant life of all the reprobates is part of Gods grand plan as well as his friends. The difference being his friends should be thanking him for all the experiences that come into their uniquely crafted existence, they can thank him because they actually know God unlike the lost. The non-elect are vessels that can be used to bring about his ultimate plan and manifest his full glory, wrath and justice for the reprobates, love and grace for his friends.

 

[A_Thinker]

Do you think He had a purpose for allowing it?

Yes, ... but I wouldn't advance from that position ... to advocating that SIN is of God, particularly when He denies that is true.

I grew up in a family of 8, with an intact Mom/Dad who ran their home quite strictly.

As strict as they were, however, ... they allowed disobedience, ... because, otherwise, ... we would have never survived their parentage.

But, of course, ... they didn't ORDAIN that disobedience, ... they took solid measures to discourage it. But, obedience was not their only goal, ... they also desired to demonstrate and encourage LOVE, and GROWTH.

 

[A_Thinker]

Of course. But God is in control even if that. My disobedience will ultimately be used for His glory.

... as He works ALL things together for GOOD, ... though, the IMPLICIT idea being, ... that ALL things are not GOOD.

And ALL that is of God is GOOD, yes ?

 

[Hammster]

Yes, ... but I wouldn't advance from that position ... to advocating that SIN is of God. particularly when He denies that is true.

I grew up in a family of 8, with an intact Mom/Dad who ran their home quite strictly.

As strict as they were, however, ... they allowed disobedience, ... because, otherwise, ... we would have never survived their parentage.

But, of course, ... they didn't ORDAIN that disobedience, ... they took solid measures to discourage it. But, obedience was not their only goal, ... they also desired to demonstrate and encourage LOVE, and GROWTH.

Thanks. Since God has a purpose for sin, we can thank Him for ALL things since all things are under His control.

 

[Hammster]

... as He works ALL things together for GOOD, ... though, the IMPLICIT idea being, ... that ALL things are not GOOD.

And ALL that is of God is GOOD, yes ?

I’m not quite sure of your point, or what you are asking.