All the questions you were afraid to ask

[looksgood]

Well I thought about making this thread a while now. I thought we needed one where people could come in and talk about their questions. I mean I have had PLEANTY over the years. But I am talking general bible questions. Things maybe you don't agree with in the bible. Or to put it better, things you dont understand.

For example I never have understood the parable about the workers who were hired some early and some late. It just never seemed right to me to give a greater reward to those who worked less. That is just one of those things I never could get and thought maybe we should open a discussion on it.

Plus I would like others to ask their questions and admit if they have a hard time understanding the reasoning God is useing. I think if we all came together and talked about these things we could come to a better understanding of Gods wisdom, grace, and ultimatly God Himself. Plus we could stop leaning on our own understanding.

I mean we say you have to fight to keep your life. God says you have to die to keep you life. How TWISTED IS THAT?!!! LOL

 

[KleinerApfel]

Great idea looksgood,

about the workers in the vineyard:

It's about the great generosity of God - like the man hiring workers, He gives more than expected to those who deserve less.

Note however, the men who did a whole day were not cheated out of their fair and agreed wage. It's just that the landowner decided to give the same payment (not more as you suggested), to those working fewer hours.

This story also says that all Christians receive what God has promised for His people. There is nobody who can claim they deserve more just because they were a life-long Christian, and nobody who converts on the point of death should worry that they haven't served God through their lives - they still get to heaven.

In other places we are told that greater rewards await some who have served faithfully. However - ALL Christians get to heaven and spend eternity with the Lord, but some will receive more "extras", whatever that means I don't know!

God bless, Susana

 

[GodSaves]

Also it isn't a matter of how much "good works" is done. One who has done 50 years of works and one who has done 1 hour of works both receive eternal life if both their faith is that Jesus is the Son of God and the only mediator between us and the Father.
I think this parable reinforces the saying in the Bible that it is not by our works that we are saved but by our faith alone. And that faith will produce good works.

God Bless
Bob

 

[Larry]

Great idea looksgood,

about the workers in the vineyard:

It's about the great generosity of God - like the man hiring workers, He gives more than expected to those who deserve less.

Note however, the men who did a whole day were not cheated out of their fair and agreed wage. It's just that the landowner decided to give the same payment (not more as you suggested), to those working fewer hours.

This story also says that all Christians receive what God has promised for His people. There is nobody who can claim they deserve more just because they were a life-long Christian, and nobody who converts on the point of death should worry that they haven't served God through their lives - they still get to heaven.

In other places we are told that greater rewards await some who have served faithfully. However - ALL Christians get to heaven and spend eternity with the Lord, but some will receive more "extras", whatever that means I don't know!

God bless, Susana

Well said.

 

[deg]

Ok, I got a question...John 16:8-11...they get me everytime I read them.

How is the world being convinced of righteousness through Jesus' disappearing?
How is the world being convinced of judgement because Satan IS judged? ("Is Judged"! That's present continuous tense, and that baffles me too!)

 

[looksgood]

Ok, I got a question...John 16:8-11...they get me everytime I read them.

How is the world being convinced of righteousness through Jesus' disappearing?
How is the world being convinced of judgement because Satan IS judged? ("Is Judged"! That's present continuous tense, and that baffles me too!)

An excelant question deg...one I am gona have to hear the answer to as well lol.

Also about the workers thing...I guess I just wondered why he was generous to the ones who worked less by offering them the penny instead of less. And yet only FAIR to those who worked more. It just seemed to be that he was Fair to some, but genorus to others. It seemed like the old respecter of persons thing to me is all. I know he was fair, but what gets me is the genorosity thing I guess. But then I am a bit greedy lol.

I just think about my own life. I worked a long time to help people who draged me down (family). See I have given everything I have to keep them doing well. But here I am seeing THEM gain the rewards of it. But I stay in this situation. Like my brother...I have done SOOO much for him. I work for the school system for 2 years now as part time. He came in after me and worked 3 months and they are offering him full time. I got nothing. It just seems like I am not rewarded for my actions but others are rewarded for inaction. Thats just where I am comeing from. I aint saying it is good. I am just saying this is the kinda thing I feel needs to be admited and faced without fear of accusations or being thought of as a bad guy.

 

[Kehaar]

Hi Deg

I have a NIV bible, so I've included its translation below.

8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Ok, I got a question...John 16:8-11...they get me everytime I read them.

How is the world being convinced of righteousness through Jesus' disappearing?

In verse 8, Jesus is referring to the Holy Spirit. In verse 7 he states that:

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

So, by Jesus 'disappearing' we 'gain' the Holy Spirit. Baptism in the spirit is an integral part of conversion - the Spirit convicts us of our sin, teaches us, fills us, directs us....all leading toward a 'right' relationship with God.

How is the world being convinced of judgement because Satan IS judged? ("Is Judged"! That's present continuous tense, and that baffles me too!)

I figure this must be differences in bible translations :/

Verse 14 in the NIV reads:

and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

The prince of this world, the devil, was defeated at the cross.

Hebrews 2:14-15 reads:

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death - that is, the devil
15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

I hope that makes sense. I don't think I've answered as well or fully as I could have, I'm short on time tonight, sorry!

Astral

 

[cyberwood]

looksgood, I think this is an awesome idea! No questions yet...actually, I started with one, but I don't think it's one after I posed it...shoot! I will certainly post any questions that pop into my head.

A quick response to the workers' parable:
Paul wrote in Romans 4:4:

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

The men that worked the field the entire day deserved the wages they were given. It was fair and just, and demonstrates God's justice. But we know that not one of us works righteousness, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". If we work, then we fall short - the law makes it clear to us - and so if we ask for our measure based on what we have done, then we are justly given what we deserve: condemnation, since none of us have worked according to righteousness.

But the grace of God provides rest in the law - that is, when we live by grace, we don't exert effort (and work) to keep the law (which we don't and can't on our own). We find comfort and strength in the law. It is no longer work, but rest. Paul says, "but to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness".

For a moment, considering that righteousness could be attained by keeping the law, by working to keep the law or by resting in the Justifier of our ungodliness (Jesus), we receive the same thing - the inheritance promised to Abraham - that we would be a member of the nation of the Lord. The same penny. The difference is that one has worked for it while the other has rested in the one who has worked for it (Jesus Christ). I believe this parable makes note of the grace of our Lord - it is a grace that our sinful nature does not know, since it has never known the Lord, and has never committed any action out of grace.

 

[cyberwood]

How is the world being convinced of judgement because Satan IS judged?

I am going to take a stab at this...If I err, please all, lead me back!

Every Christian understands, and fights their old nature. The Christian sees a part of him/herself that lives to God and a part of him/herself that lives for the world.

Romans 6:10,11
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

When we are called to the Father through Jesus, we receive the 'first fruits' of our inheritance, a new nature that lives for the Lord and only for the Lord. It is that nature that is righteous - there need be no effort, no work, done to attain to this righteousness. It is righteous and enjoys fellowship with the Father through the work of the Holy Spirit. Every action, desire, thought, and motive from this new nature is Holy and pure. This is why there is "no condemnation through Christ Jesus", because it lives to God, and, as Jesus says in Luke 20:38, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive" - that doesn't need to be put to death.

The old nature, the very nature of our being that we were born with, does need to die, because it is at enmity with God. At every moment, it rejects the Lord, and seeks its own righteousness apart from the Lord (pride). It works and toils and pains itself to become righteous, and take the place of God, but it is powerless to reach righteousness, because it does not know the true righteous living Lord. This is the world.

Now, when the world sees a Christian living out of the new nature, the gift given through the righteous work of Jesus Christ, it sees its condemnation clearly, because, knowing righteousness (the world knows the Lord - romans 1:18-23), it sees its inability to attain to it. For instance, when a Christian joyfully receives a small salary, and rejoices at the coworker that receives a greater salary for lesser work, the world sees and cannot muster up that joy. They can go through the same motions (but be very bitter and angry inside), but they cannot live out of the joy that is given through fellowship with the Holy Spirit - really, what's better? But the world does not know this joy.

Satan is judged by the work of Jesus Christ. Satan's original 'victory' was in causing the first fruits of death - sin, separation from the father. By the sin in Adam, all receive this inheritance. The world is dead, and cursed, and cannot regain what it has lost. Satan wins. But then the grace of the Lord is made known through Jesus Christ, and at His final victory on the cross, the Lord's wrath is satisfied, and those who are called to Him share in this victory over sin/death - Christians, those found in Christ. Satan cannot stop this redemptive work, because the Lord is Truth, and where Truth enters, darkness flees (it has to! darkness is nothing, but light is something). So those found in Christ make it known before the world of Satan's judgment, that, though they should be always fearful of death (since everyone knows the sinful nature will be crushed at the resurrection), these Christians rejoice!

I hope that helps some...if I err, please help me!

Grace to you all!
-Chris

 

[looksgood]

An excelant post cyber! Indeed satans work of bringing death into the world has been judged and Gods work of bringing life into it has nullified death. So then satans work has been judged and condemned.......I just thought of something.

Isn't every word of God true?! Have you considered what He said on the cross? "It is finished!" WOW! God Himself declairing it is finished! What was finished? Judgment was because our judgment passed onto Him. Yet in this single and ONLY act of salvageing us...God made no room for the devil and his angels. So then at that single point we were judged by Gods grace and forknowledge. But satan was judged as well in that there was no hope for him. All that is left after the declairation of judgment (guilty or not guilty) is the sentancing! This world IS judged already! God knows who will and who wont come to Him. But the sentancing and reward is to be waited on. This is not really a waiting period for the lost so that they can have hope. It is a waiting period for the lost whom are elect...whom God already knows that they WILL come to Him. It is all finished already. We are only watching to see exactly what was finished.

The painting behind the curatin is finished...God is simply rolling back the curtains of time for us to slowly see it.

 

[looksgood]

Oh I almost forgot to add about the worker thingy again lol. I suppose...and to me this is the only way I could understand it as not playing favorites...that God is saying each man according to as he is able.

I guess really that those who came early were more able (by time or ability) to work all day than the others. That didn't make them better, it just meant they could do more. The others couldn't do more but they did do what they could. So I guess it is the same reward for all because we all are pulling the same load even though some are pulling stronger than others.

I do understand that God is full of grace. I even understand that all is His to do with as He pleases. Yet there is really one verse that sums up how this makes me feel

Ecclesiastes 6
1 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men:
2 A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.

This is how I feel...where I feel I am. God has blessed in these things...yet another is the one who eats it up. Of all my labor it seems as though it is for another. I very much like ecclesiastes. Because all of the vanity and truth of life under the sun is admited there. Nothing is hiden and sugar coated. He says plainly there is an evil under the sun that a man works all his life yet it is for another and he never sees the good of it. And he never considers why he works...he just does! Yet another works and his belly is full, his house is not empty of love and he enjoys life. Still in the end both go to the same place. So then what really bothers me is why does the suffering of the one continue and he never sees the good as the other man? Yet for all his suffering he never gains anything more than the man whom has not suffered as he has. In other words all mans work is indeed vanity because though he suffers...he gains nothing that a man whom doesnt suffer does not gain.

I guess I feel as soloman felt in this book. It is all vanity and vexation of spirit.

 

[KleinerApfel]

looksgood,

I understand what you're saying.

The truth is, life on this spoiled planet just isn't fair. It never has been since the garden, and it won't be until Jesus returns.

But if you know your Creator's love for you, and that you will receive riches in heaven, then that is a greater thing than all worldly wealth.

I worry about money and security far too much myself, so please don't take this as condemnation, but only our desire to live by the Spirit, and our willingness to let Him in, can release us from the power of these desires.

So let's heed Paul's advice to Timothy:

1 Timothy 6:6 - 10

"But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

God bless, Susana

 

[looksgood]

No worries on me taking anything as condemnation. I thought your post was well thought out and correct. Because ultimatly it is envy that says why should I suffer and gain nothing when someone who doesnt suffer gains pleanty?! That really is the root of it isn't it? You are right in saying that life is not fair. I came to that thought long ago. Still I look to my God to make it fair for some reason. Though I am not sure He will...in fact I doubt He will.

So life becomes a burden for many because they see no joy in it for whatever reason...even the just are this way. The just see famin, the sword, and all mannor of evil. Yet the unjust see good all the days of their lives. But in the end the just gain and unjust lose. Yet what of the just who DOES see good?

Thats just one of those hard things for me to accept that one just man can suffer and another be in joy yet all of the suffering is counted as nothing and never really made right (at least in my own faulty eyes).

Still I guess I am going to have to accept that he who suffers will only gain what he who does not suffer will gain.

 

[mythbuster]

...
I mean we say you have to fight to keep your life. God says you have to die to keep you life. How TWISTED IS THAT?!!! LOL

Not twisted. lol

That is the soul-life that is lost, not the physical life. To lose your soul-life is to take the way of the cross, and thus live the life of God. Paul writes that he was crucified with Christ. But Paul lived. His new life was Christ. Gal 2:20

FYI. There are three types of life in the New Testament. Bios (remember biology) for physical life, psuche-life (remember psychology) life or soul-life, and zoe-life the eternal life of God. ( I had an aunt named Zoella )

nospellcheck
peace

 

[BlestVessel]

Looksgood, brilliant post! True knowledge is not only found in what a man knows, but what he's willing to ask! I keep trying to bring a question in, but I ask the Holy Spirit first and it's revealed... otherwise I'd be all over this!
I pray you're abundantly blessed and encouraged by the post you began, love!

-April

 

[BlestVessel]

Ok, I got a question...John 16:8-11...they get me everytime I read them.

How is the world being convinced of righteousness through Jesus' disappearing?
How is the world being convinced of judgement because Satan IS judged? ("Is Judged"! That's present continuous tense, and that baffles me too!)

Deg,

I'm not sure what you're asking, but it's never hurt more than my pride to take a stab at a question. And that's usually a good thing anyway.
From my small perspective, it looks like Jesus had to leave since if He hadn't, His resurrection would not lead to His ascension, and thereby the evidence that Jesus was of God and that due to His blameless sacrifice, He was actually returned to the Father's right hand as He'd said He would be. Had this not occured, I wonder how much more easily His life, death and resurrection would've been reduced to myth. Primarily, though, He left us with the Holy Spirit and thereby Wisdom of all things-including righteousness. Were His indwelling unavailable to every person, we would be living only in our flesh and our spirit, baptized only in water and not in the Holy Spirit also. Until He left, only those in His presence were noted to be filled with the Holy Spirit.... if I'm correct. Verse seven explains that if He didn't go, the Holy Spirit would not come, so He had to leave to send Him. And who but our beloved Holy Spirit can fully convince us of Truth not concocted in this world? Some versions read convicted of righteousness and judgement, etc., which I think can more easily be explained by a human intellect, but I'll not touch translational differences.

As far as judgement, again, there is a translational thing where some versions say "has been" judged. Satan is judged yet he awaits his sentence, ergo he is judged and so remains until the designated time. The Holy Spirit sets in us the realities one must first know in their spirit before believing with their soul [mind, will, and emotions], including the coming judgement of all mankind. Were we not consumed by Him, we would not be convinced of this inevitable future, nor would we come to any depth of insight in any other Scriptural passage.

Did that clear anything up? Hope so!

In Him,
April

 

[deg]

April and Cyberwood both,

thank you. Yes, these things are clearing up, and it is actually the translational differences, coupled with your expositions which has broken the back of the beast. I was consfused about how these events were convicting or convincing the world, but Jesus disappearring seems quite plain now. Jesus' ascention is proof of His perfect righteousness, and reflects upon and contrasts our corruption (convicts). Judgement (venereal disease, mental imbalance, depression, epidemics and plagues, war, planes running into buildings, terrorism at large, defiled media, corrupt popular culture) is being poured out because of the sins of the people. The people are being convicted of judgement through these ongoing (Present Continuous = IS judged) experiences of wrath upon the spirit which works against God. The greater day is coming, and we're beginning to see that through this ongoing judgement.

Does that appropriately sum up those verses? That's what I managed to glean from those rich posts. I hope that teaching was properly recieved: I believe it is quite consistant with the Spirit of the Lord. Thanks again.