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What is wonderful about our calling, is our salvation is of God who is our Father, as Romans 8 teaches us. A certain hope.devin
[Do you truly believe that only ministers will be saved? They are the called and chosen, and if so, why have a body of the church, a body in Christ, them that are faithful and not chosen or called to the ministry.
I don't see how you've proven your point using scripture yet.]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
God chooses us for what exactly before we were born?The Bible says that God chooses us before we were born. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't like that answer, so they find another.
Scripture however refers to predestined as having to do with salvation, not hell.
Scripture says we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
So I have seen this a lot on here forum. Some saying we are predestined and others say we aren’t. So are we all predestined to be in hell or heaven? Is it a lie that whoever believe in Jesus l? Whoever.
Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—God chooses us for what exactly before we were born?
Please read Ephesians 1:4 very very carefully.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
He hath chosen us IN HIM, for what purpose? Be holy and without blame before Him in love.
We have to be IN HIM first. How do we be IN HIM? By coming to the cross and accepting Him. Salvation comes first then he has chose US (Collective US not personal by name US) to be holy and blameless. What does it all mean simply. God the Father made a pact with Jesus the SON before the creation of the world that MANKIND will be holy and blameless in JESUS.
There is nothing there linking choosing you personally before you were born.
God from the beginning of time predestined those who will in the future accept His charity to be given His charity.Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
The Scripture clearly says that God chose us in him before the creation of the world and that he predestined us for adoption.
Don't try to nullify the clear word of God when it disagrees with your assumptions.
Romans 9People often ignore Romans 9:6-29
The Key:
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
The Meaning
God has created and prepared some for mercy and some for wrath. We have no right to judge his choices.
No one is predestined to hell-to be punished eternally-that would be quite an evil thing to do. God uses our choices in any case to determine our ultimate fates.So I have seen this a lot on here forum. Some saying we are predestined and others say we aren’t. So are we all predestined to be in hell or heaven? Is it a lie that whoever believe in Jesus l? Whoever.
I explained: The verse: Ro. 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction, does not saying all the “vessels” created for a “common purpose” were created for destruction (they were not made from the start by the Potter: “clay pigeons”, no potter of that time made clay pigeons). Everything that leaves the potter’s shop is of great quality and would have the potter’s mark. Those vessels for destruction can come from either the common group or the honor group by becoming damaged and unworthy of the potter’s mark, but God is being patient with them that will eventually be destroyed. There are vessels God does develop a great wrath against and will be readied for destruction, but how did they become worthy of destruction, since they left the potter’s shop with his mark on them? Any vessel (honorable or common) that becomes damaged is not worthy of the potter’s signature and He would want it destroyed. As Paul says in 2 Tim 2: 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.Remember that Romans 9 is focused on God choosing, God predestining, God preparing some for mercy and some for wrath, before they were even born in the case of Esau and Jacob.
"10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
So it is not like Paul is teaching that people become bad and then they are prepared for God's wrath. Instead, they are prepared for wrath before they do anything. Before their creation, some are destined for mercy and some for wrath.
The letter is to the Christians in Ephesus, the message to all and applicable to all Christians as are all the epistles.Well if you are going to go with scripture and that idea of predestination then only the people at that time of Christ and in Ephesus are chosen, Oh and Paul included himself? Or did you have another scripture reference?
Ephesians 1:1-5
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Different covenant entirely, and a covenant to the people of God, technically they were saved by faith too. These words are not written to the unbelieving world nations. God has deliberately rendered the OC obsolete and it has been done away with 100%.This is what Ezekiel says about predestined/elected to be saved. It also puts a nail into 'once saved always saved'.You can substitute Jesus for righteousness in this passage since He is our righteousness.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
So I have seen this a lot on here forum. Some saying we are predestined and others say we aren’t. So are we all predestined to be in hell or heaven? Is it a lie that whoever believe in Jesus l? Whoever.
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