All Israel Will Be Saved ?

[Guojing]

"The Israel Of God Is The Church"​

Gods words clearly show (Two Israel's) below

1.) Israel of the flesh (Jews)

2.) Israel of the promised seed (Church)

Scripture clearly teaches Israel of the flesh, they aren't the children of God, it's that simple

Romans 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yes the Kingdom of God has been taken from National Ethnic Israel, And Given To The Church, a "Holy Nation" as clearly seen below

Matthew 21:43KJV

3 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Could it be possible that the 2nd Israel refers to Jews from Israel that believe Christ is the Messiah, instead of how you interpret it as the Body of Christ?

It will be consistent with the other scriptural verses you used correct?

Furthermore, in scripture, whenever the singular term "nation" is used, such as in Matthew 21:43 and 1 Peter 2:9, it always refers to Israel.

If it was gentile nations, it will always be plural "nations".

Note I am just asking you whether you think it is possible, you can still stick to your doctrine if you wish.

 

[Truth7t7]

Could it be possible that the 2nd Israel refers to Jews from Israel that believe Christ is the Messiah, instead of how you interpret it as the Body of Christ?

It will be consistent with the other scriptural verses you used correct?

Furthermore, in scripture, whenever the singular term "nation" is used, such as in Matthew 21:43 and 1 Peter 2:9, it always refers to Israel.

If it was gentile nations, it will always be plural "nations".

Note I am just asking you whether you think it is possible, you can still stick to your doctrine if you wish.

Did James write to "Jews" or "The Church" below?

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[Guojing]

Did James write to "Jews" or "The Church" below?

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The 12 tribes are that of Israel, which means Jews.

Why would you think we belong to any of the 12 tribes?

 

[Davy]

When the last soul is saved and added to the church on earth, then "All Israel Will Be Saved"

But you are basing that timing on your belief in a false doctrine of men called Amillennialism, which wrongly believes when Lord Jesus returns, that's it for the wicked as they are cast immediately into the future "lake of fire".

Rev 3:8-9
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

That reveals that when Jesus returns in our near future, He is going to force those false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" (his 2nd greatest enemies), to come and worship at the feet of His elect, i.e., those that reign with Jesus with His "rod of iron" over the nations in that future "thousand years" period of Rev.20.

Zechariah 14 also reveals that after Christ's future return, leftovers of the nations that will have come up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world, will be made to come worship The LORD and keep the feast of tabernacles. Both of those Scriptures reveal beyond all doubt that the wicked will still be with us, but under Christ's rod of iron after His return, and NOT destroyed just yet.

 

[Truth7t7]

The 12 tribes are that of Israel, which means Jews.

Why would you think we belong to any of the 12 tribes?

James uses the words "My Brethren" below, does that pertain to specifically "Jews"?

James 1:2KJV
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

 

[Guojing]

James uses the words "My Brethren" below, does that pertain to specifically "Jews"?

James 1:2KJV
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

Jews always call fellow male Jews brethren.

I have given you direct answers to your questions, are you prepared to give to mine?

"Could it be possible that the 2nd Israel refers to Jews from Israel that believe Christ is the Messiah, instead of how you interpret it as the Body of Christ?"

 

[Truth7t7]

Jews always call fellow male Jews brethren.

I have given you direct answers to your questions, are you prepared to give to mine?

"No" the church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

The church is comprised of both Jew/Gentile, God has no respect for race of ethnic origin

 

[Guojing]

"No" the church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

The church is comprised of both Jew/Gentile, God has no respect for race of ethnic origin

The Body of Christ is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, I agree.

But is there a particular reason for you to consider it an impossibility that Israel and the Body of Christ are two different groups?

My guess is that the Bible version you used is mostly NIV, especially the NIV of Ephesians 3:6 and Galatians 6:16

If so, then I can understand why you are taught that way.

 

[Truth7t7]

My guess is that the Bible version you used is mostly NIV, especially the NIV of Ephesians 3:6 and Galatians 6:16

I use the KJV 100% of the time

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”


I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.

It seems to me in Verse 8 suggesting that just because you are Jewish does not make you part of God's Children. It also seems That Israel is considered God's children. It seems that in verse 8 all are God's Children are that which have received the promise form Abraham. So maybe just maybe all those in Christ, Jew or Greek are part of the spiritual Israel referred to as God Children?? This way it make sense when it says all of Israel will be saved in Romans 11 verse 26. Other wise it seems to be a conflict when it says all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11-26, and then in Romans 9-27 says only a remnant will be saved.



Galatians 2
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Paul in Romans 11 is making the distinction between the church and Israel. Covenant makes all the literal promises to the nation of Israel and spiritualizes them. That is a poor hermenuetic approach to understanding scripture.

 

[Guojing]

I use the KJV 100% of the time

The Church is the Israel of God, children of the promised seed

The Israel of God in Romans 9 is certainly a church, a called out assembly of Jewish believers, I can agree with you there.

But I notice while I use the term Body of Christ, you kept changing it to church.

Do you regard these 2 terms as equivalent in scripture all the time?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There are two Israel's.

All Israel being saved refers to 'Spiritual Israel"

This is the remnant of Jews that will be saved.

There is a plan for Israel that will be put in place after the Rapture. Much of the Christian church through the ages has adopted an anti-Semitic stance because of their ignorance of God's plan for Israel. Much of what happens after the Rapture will be concerning the Jews. The Tribulation and Millennium will involve Israel, and Armageddon will be when the nations will all gather to fight against the Lord who will be defending Israel. It will be when the new heavens and earth will take place of our present one, and the New Jerusalem will come down, that the distinction between Israel and the Church will go and all will be unified to enter into the joys of the Lord in heaven.

Martin Luther was anti-Semitic and his teaching was largely responsible for the silent pulpits in Nazi Germany that enabled the Holocaust to take place without objection from the churches. Most churches are anti-Semitic because they have not done their homework in Scripture that clearly shows that God has a definite plan for Israel at the end time. The Bride of Christ is the Raptured Church, and as part of the Bride, we will be witnesses to how God will fulfill His plan for Israel during the Tribulation and Millennium.

 

[Guojing]

There is a plan for Israel that will be put in place after the Rapture.

You actually believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ?

That is interesting, considering that is a mystery revealed only to Paul.

 

[ralliann]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”


I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.

It seems to me in Verse 8 suggesting that just because you are Jewish does not make you part of God's Children. It also seems That Israel is considered God's children. It seems that in verse 8 all are God's Children are that which have received the promise form Abraham. So maybe just maybe all those in Christ, Jew or Greek are part of the spiritual Israel referred to as God Children?? This way it make sense when it says all of Israel will be saved in Romans 11 verse 26. Other wise it seems to be a conflict when it says all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11-26, and then in Romans 9-27 says only a remnant will be saved.



Galatians 2
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

This IMO, according to covenant theology has to do with the two covenants made with Abraham.
Which verse 7 is through Isaac. That promise has not been revoked by the Sinai covenant. But rather is upheld in Christ because of his resurrection from the dead.
Gentiles are "included" in the promise through Christ. We also are made his seed. But not through Isaac, but Christ. as it disannuls the fleshy commands of circumcision.
Israel called Gods firstborn, according to the covenant of the land, when he brings them out of Egypt in Judgement. Having two (double) portions of inheritance in Abraham.
1. One portion earthly, temporal
2. One portion heavenly, eternal.
True Israelites are those which are heirs in both portions.
The heavenly portion is what all in Christ inherit.
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Israel as a fleshy nation are still called in Isaac, by keeping the fleshy covenant. While this earth and world continues, they will continue to be a nation via the Abrahamic promise through Isaac.

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Just like the tribes that had an in heritance on the other side of the Jordon.
No rest until they had gone over to help their brethren receive theirs.

They cannot enter in to the second portion without us...

Deut 3:12 And this land, which we possessed at that time, from Aroer, which is by the river Arnon, and half mount Gilead, and the cities thereof, gave I unto the Reubenites and to the Gadites.
18 And I commanded you at that time, saying, The LORD your God hath given you this land to possess it: ye shall pass over armed before your brethren the children of Israel, all that are meet for the war.
19 But your wives, and your little ones, and your cattle, (for I know that ye have much cattle,) shall abide in your cities which I have given you;
20 Until the LORD have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the LORD your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.

Deut 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[William Lefranc]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”


I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.

It seems to me in Verse 8 suggesting that just because you are Jewish does not make you part of God's Children. It also seems That Israel is considered God's children. It seems that in verse 8 all are God's Children are that which have received the promise form Abraham. So maybe just maybe all those in Christ, Jew or Greek are part of the spiritual Israel referred to as God Children?? This way it make sense when it says all of Israel will be saved in Romans 11 verse 26. Other wise it seems to be a conflict when it says all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11-26, and then in Romans 9-27 says only a remnant will be saved.



Galatians 2
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

"All Israel will be saved" has to do with the context of the previous verses. The old covenant was closed officially in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple. This means that Israel ceased to be a covenant nation once the Romans destroyed the temple, therefore the "all Israel" it refers to Jews that came to Christ before God ended His relationship with them through the law of Moses.

After that event, the Jews that hadn't believed in Messiah before, either they walked away from God altogether, or came back to God through faith in Yeshua.

We are the new Israel or the new covenant community of believers in Yeshua which is called "the church."

PS This is NOT Replacement Theology, this is a true biblical understanding that God's eternal plan was to have a people after His own heart, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

 

[benadamm]

I believe when Jesus appears there will be among the Jews those who will see Him as an only son and weep. They will be considered all of Israel.Imo


Zechariah 12


I, the Lord, will make the descendants of David and the people of Jerusalem feel deep sorrow and pray when they see the one they pierced with a spear. They will mourn and weep for him, as parents weep over the death of their only child or their first-born.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 12:10 - Contemporary English Version

Mourning for the One Pierced with a Spear - I, the Lord, will make the descendants of David and the people of Jerusalem feel deep sorrow and pray when they see the one they pierced with a spear. They will mourn and weep for him, as parents weep over the death of their only child or their first-born.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Truth7t7]

"All Israel will be saved" has to do with the context of the previous verses. The old covenant was closed officially in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple. This means that Israel ceased to be a covenant nation once the Romans destroyed the temple, therefore the "all Israel" it refers to Jews that came to Christ before God ended His relationship with them through the law of Moses.

After that event, the Jews that hadn't believed in Messiah before, either they walked away from God altogether, or came back to God through faith in Yeshua.

We are the new Israel or the new covenant community of believers in Yeshua which is called "the church."

PS This is NOT Replacement Theology, this is a true biblical understanding that God's eternal plan was to have a people after His own heart, sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Temple Destruction, 70AD preterism in action "False" it had absolutely nothing to do with the future fulfilling of the gentiles

 

[Carl Emerson]

What did the ripping of the temple curtain signify if not a desecration of God's Temple by Himself thus signifying the ending of the Old Covenant and the end of the authority of the priesthood?

This is when the spiritual ceased and the physical in AD70.

 

[Truth7t7]

What did the ripping of the temple curtain signify if not a desecration of God's Temple by Himself thus signifying the ending of the Old Covenant and the end of the authority of the priesthood?

This is when the spiritual ceased and the physical in AD70.

The standard preterist teaching found in reformed eschatology that's wrong

 

[Clare73]

What did the ripping of the temple curtain signify if not a desecration of God's Temple by Himself thus signifying the ending of the Old Covenant and the end of the authority of the priesthood?

This is when the spiritual ceased and the physical in AD70.

God dwelled among them in the Ark (Ex 29:45), which was in the Most Holy Place.

The curtain separated the Most Holy Place, which could be entered only once a year by the High Priest, from the Holy Place.

Its tearing signified the opening of the way to God simply through faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrificial atonement for the remission of one's sin.