ALL habitual sinners are NOT in a saved state

StrivingFollower · Feb 12, 2019

CodyFaith said:
I think my favorite part of defining sin is that it's not just what you do, it's what you don't do. As well, it's not just the "common sins", it's attitudes, thoughts, things like anger, hypocricy, white lies...

And we all do these things and other like things daily. And we all do these things habitually. And those who say and/or believe they don't, are liars whom decieve themselves. And those who lay yokes on men to do the things they themselves don't do are Pharisees and hypocrites.
And so by your standard every human being that has ever lived stands condemned.

Fail to be kind to someone? That's sin. Habitually be unkind in xyz situations? That's sin. I could go on but you get the point.

It's a good thing that the only thing that is required for salvation is genuine faith in Jesus and his work done for sinners on the cross. Evidence of salvation is the Holy Spirit's testimony within you, knowing you have a pure and true relationship with God, major sins that you once lived in done away with, etc. It's up to the person to seek evidence of their own salvation, and then they must ignore whispers that they are not saved because of xyz. They must have faith and trust their Father over man and his opinion.

We are redeemed, then we spend our entire life being gradually sanctified by God's mercy and love. And then at the coming of Jesus, we will see God as he is, and all our sin will be done away with. That is the faith.

It is better to be honest about oneself, then to be the hypocrite. Jesus had much to say about hypocrisy. I am not saying the OP is one, but I echo Jesus' caution in saying beware that you not be this person.

Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Amen. God could humiliate me and every other Christian on a daily basis, showing them the things they could've done better in their day. All the times you could've set aside your pain or exhaustion and worked harder. All the times you could've set aside your anger, and tried to see things more steadily... maybe you judged someone too harshly in your anger, thinking it was righteous anger. Or the opposite.. maybe you dodged a moment in which you should've confidently defended somebody or something important.

All the times you could've been more generous. All the times you could've prayed or done something for somebody instead of something you thought was harmless relaxation or fun. Some think they're being good to their family or friends, but they overdo their time spent with them and actually they're unknowingly neglecting somebody else in their life they should be helping. God has so many things for us to do..

But so people say well it's about what's willful sin and what's not. But what about people that are overthinkers and those that are underthinkers? The impulsive underthinkers have a huge unfair advantage because they naturally give themselves a lot less responsibility.

Kenny'sID · Feb 12, 2019

BCsenior said:
What do you think BC means?

Good question, what is a BCsenior?

CodyFaith · Feb 12, 2019

StrivingFollower said:
Amen. God could humiliate me and every other Christian on a daily basis, showing them the things they could've done better in their day. All the times you could've set aside your pain or exhaustion and worked harder. All the times you could've set aside your anger, and tried to see things more steadily... maybe you judged someone too harshly in your anger, thinking it was righteous anger. Or the opposite.. maybe you dodged a moment in which you should've confidently defended somebody or something important.

All the times you could've been more generous. All the times you could've prayed or done something for somebody instead of something you thought was harmless relaxation or fun. Some think they're being good to their family or friends, but they overdo their time spent with them and actually they're unknowingly neglecting somebody else in their life they should be helping. God has so many things for us to do..

But so people say well it's about what's willful sin and what's not. But what about people that are overthinkers and those that are underthinkers? The impulsive underthinkers have a huge unfair advantage because they naturally give themselves a lot less responsibility.

Yep, and the thing is one day he actually will humiliate us, at Judgement.

This is why it's important to be honest with ourselves about who we are and what we do. Proverbs 21:2 says:
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
Which shows that man always naturally thinks he is doing right and believes he is more righteous then he actually is. We sin allllll day. Only God is good Jesus said. Jesus called us, even believers, evil. King David called himself a worm (Psalm 22:6). God said in Isaiah I believe, "You worm, Israel". We all are low and only God is high.

At Judgement God will ultimately cut every human down to size. Only those who were repentant in this life and realized they were a helpless sinner in need of God's grace through Jesus' work on the cross to save them and cleanse their sins, only these people will find God's mercy.

DamianWarS · Feb 12, 2019

BCsenior said:
I mean a person who repeatedly sinswithout repentance.

what does "habitual" have to do with it? it sounds like what you really mean to say is all unrepentant sinners are not in a saved state. How often do you have to repeat sin in order for it to be called habitual anyway? Something that is habitual is something belonging to one's inherent disposition. Is sin a part of our inherent disposition? Yes of course it is, this is called the sinful nature such as the struggle Paul talks about in Rom 7. So what part of sin is not habitual?

BNR32FAN · Feb 12, 2019

BCsenior said:
By “habitual sinner” I mean a person who repeatedly
sinswithout repentance. This means everyone
(BACs included) … because everyone can choose to sin. Repentance means to hate your sin, run from it, and don’t do it anymore. If one does slip up and sins again, he/she can repent again as in 1 John 1:9. This is repeated until he/she has overcome the sin,
i.e. gained victory over it.

All habitual sinners will not inherit
the Kingdom of God
“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves,
nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the Kingdom of God.”
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NKJV)
Please note: the BAC has become unrighteous,
if he/she chooses to live in a lifestyle of habitual sinning.

All habitual sinners will not inherit
the Kingdom of God
“When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before,
that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21, NLT)
“those who practice such things will not inherit
the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:21, NKJV)

All habitual sinners will not inherit the Kingdom
of Christ but instead they will experience
the anger/wrath of God
“Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes — these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.” (Ephesians 5:3-6, NLT)
“Let no one deceive you with empty words,
for because of these things the wrath of God
comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
(Ephesians 5:6, NKJV)

All habitual sinners will experience
the anger/wrath of God
“So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.” (Colossians 3:5-6, NLT)
“Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience”
(Colossians 3:6, NKJV)

All habitual sinners will go into the lake of fire
“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. BUT the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8, NKJV)
May I warn you with all sincerity that “the cowardly” includes those BACs in the world (even now) who fall away from the faith during persecution of Christians.
And “the cowardly” will include those BACs who submit to taking the mark of the beast, which is submitting to the ownership of the antichrist, i.e. Satan.

All habitual sinners will not have the right to the tree of life, and will not be allowed into the city of the New Jerusalem
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life,
and may enter through the gates into the city.
But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,
and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
(Revelation 22:14-15, NKJV)

BACs = born-again Christians

I’m inclined to agree however how many of us BAC habitually doubt, worry, lust, get frustrated or angry, complain, covet, are gluttonous, or worldly? I think my most common sins are doubt, worry, frustration, complaining, gluttony, covetous, and probably sometimes worldly. These are so easy to slip into without even realizing.

BNR32FAN · Feb 12, 2019

DamianWarS said:
what does "habitual" have to do with it? it sounds like what you really mean to say is all unrepentant sinners are not in a saved state. How often do you have to repeat sin in order for it to be called habitual anyway? Something that is habitual is something belonging to one's inherent disposition. Is sin a part of our inherent disposition? Yes of course it is, this is called the sinful nature such as the struggle Paul talks about in Rom 7. So what part of sin is not habitual?

I think the scriptures he quoted have to do with the heart’s intent. I do see his point tho. I think if we truly seek to honor God we will not be capable of habitually committing these sins but we may also still stumble in them often.

DaveM · Feb 12, 2019

those that say all we have to do is believe in Christ you realize the bible tells us that evidence of your belief is that you are not a habitual sinner. If you say you believe with your lips and have no evidence of a changed life this should be a concern.

Its it very important to understand the difference between practicing sin as a lifestyle and stumbling in sin and repenting

We have to Love Jesus and the proof that you love Jesus is
John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Oldmantook · Feb 12, 2019

aiki said:
And, once more, you offer a passage that says not one thing about the saved being lost. You are reading such a construction of meaning into the passage, not drawing it out of the passage. The passage offers another contrast between both the final fate and the conduct of the saved and those who are lost.

I'll give you one.
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, 20let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. Js 5:19-20

friend of · Feb 12, 2019

CodyFaith said:
This is why it's important to be honest with ourselves about who we are and what we do

Right. 1 Corinthians 11:31 comes to mind

But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

Cement · Feb 12, 2019

Anytime you repent God is willing to forgive. The devil is in the background saying that God would never forgive you and that you should just give up and are worthless to him. I was once hearing a radio sermon which state the only people the devil doesn't try to hurt are the lost ones without Jesus and destined to eternal separation. So if you are being persecuted by Satan rejoice because it means that you have found the path to salvation.

JAYPT · Feb 12, 2019

Ah.... good ol 1 John 1:9, the Christians daily bar of soap..... lol, too bad no one ever reads Hebrews 10:14.

Presbyterian Continuist · Feb 12, 2019

friend of said:
I agree to an extent. But it sounds like you are saying that if someone is truly converted they will no longer have to battle their flesh, and that if they do, then their conversion isn't genuine. Maybe you were converted this radically (100% regeneration immediately) but I disagree that such is the rule and not the exception when it comes to repentance and dying to self (which indicates a process).

I didn't actually say that. That would be going against Paul when he said that he strove to put his body into subjection. Romans 7 speaks of his struggle against his flesh and his inability to be completely victorious. He concludes that the battle is won through faith in Jesus Christ. His thorn in the flesh seems to be something similar and God's answer to him was "My grace is sufficient for you."

The truly converted believer would be extremely happy with his sinful state (in his flesh). Paul said, "There is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh." He also said in Galatians that the flesh wars against the spirit. This speaks of a continual struggle with the flesh, which can only be fought using prayer and the sword of the Spirit.

There is no such thing as a lazy Christian. A lazy Christian who does not struggle, pray, mourn for personal sin, and is sleepy concerning personal holiness, is no Christian at all. It shows that he has not entered through the narrow gate yet. He may be very religious, attend church, live a fairly moral life, does good deeds for others; but if he does not spend much time in personal prayer, confession of sin to God, being sober and vigilant to avoid the works of the flesh, then he is not genuinely converted to Christ and will find the gates of heaven shut against him when he arrives there.

DamianWarS · Feb 12, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I think the scriptures he quoted have to do with the heart’s intent. I do see his point tho. I think if we truly seek to honor God we will not be capable of habitually committing these sins but we may also still stumble in them often.

I'd still like to hone in what this "habitual sin" is in the OP because I think the OP doesn't do justice in defining it. Paul admits in Rom 7:19 "For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing" then he goes on saying that it is the"sin living in me that does it" Does this sounds like habitual sinning? because to me that sounds exactly like that. I'm sure that OP is not saying that Paul was among the unsaved yet Paul describes habitual sinning even saying "this I keep on doing" literally "this I practice" and is stated in a very personal sense to Paul, not as some indefinite audience. So if Paul identifies with habitual sinning what aspect of the OP differs?

Presbyterian Continuist · Feb 12, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
Ongoing wilful sin will cause us a serious problem when it comes to salvation, as opposed to sin of temptation. We need to repent of the ongoing and never plan on doing it again. If we fail, as in sin of temptation, ask forgiveness and move on.

It's also the sort of things writers an publishers do in order to make a lot of money.

I don't believe anyone who has said they've gone to Hell and back. I do believe the likely lie sells books.

As to not tithing being a damnable sin, how can that be when the new Testament says we should only give what we can? The term is not in the commandments, nor is it so much as mentioned in the several lists of damnable sins we are warned about in the NT.

The "Robbing of God" mentioned was for not bringing their harvest, it had nothing to do with money.

We are commanded to help the poor, whether by action or giving money.

As I have already said, Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them. Therefore one cannot have Christ and willful sin as well. He cannot serve two masters. It has to be Christ or his favourite willful, habitual sin.

JAYPT · Feb 12, 2019

CodyFaith said:
Yep, and the thing is one day he actually will humiliate us, at Judgement.

This is why it's important to be honest with ourselves about who we are and what we do. Proverbs 21:2 says:
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.
Which shows that man always naturally thinks he is doing right and believes he is more righteous then he actually is. We sin allllll day. Only God is good Jesus said. Jesus called us, even believers, evil. King David called himself a worm (Psalm 22:6). God said in Isaiah I believe, "You worm, Israel". We all are low and only God is high.

At Judgement God will ultimately cut every human down to size. Only those who were repentant in this life and realized they were a helpless sinner in need of God's grace through Jesus' work on the cross to save them and cleanse their sins, only these people will find God's mercy.

Geez, your God sounds like a jerk. God is going to humiliate everyone at judgement? Yikes, thats some real scary theology.

CodyFaith · Feb 12, 2019

JAYPT said:
Geez, your God sounds like a jerk. God is going to humiliate everyone at judgement? Yikes, thats some real scary theology.

Lol.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Luke 8:17
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

I suppose your head will be held high then? Not likely. God is a just God and a God who does not "ignore" things. Just because someone is saved, does not mean they "got away with it".

Sorry if this offends a 21st century mindset that hates responsibily for one's actions.

friend of · Feb 12, 2019

Oscarr said:
There is no such thing as a lazy Christian. A lazy Christian who does not struggle, pray, mourn for personal sin, and is sleepy concerning personal holiness, is no Christian at all. It shows that he has not entered through the narrow gate yet

Okay. Thank you for clarifying.

JAYPT · Feb 12, 2019

Cement said:
Anytime you repent God is willing to forgive. The devil is in the background saying that God would never forgive you and that you should just give up and are worthless to him. I was once hearing a radio sermon which state the only people the devil doesn't try to hurt are the lost ones without Jesus and destined to eternal separation. So if you are being persecuted by Satan rejoice because it means that you have found the path to salvation.

CodyFaith said:
I suppose your head will be held high then? Not likely. God is a just God and a God who does not "ignore" things. Just because someone is saved, does not mean they "got away with it".

Absolutely I will! Jesus is my saviour and He is returning for me WITHOUT REFERENCE TO SIN (Hebrews 9:28). I am forgiven and He remembers my sins no more (Hebrews 8:12). My God is not some cosmic jerk but someone who loves me.

Is He going to give me a slap upside the head before I enter heaven? Wow, thats some loving father.

JAYPT · Feb 12, 2019

CodyFaith said:
Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

You do realize Jesus was talking to the Pharisees (unsaved people)? This is a message for those who are not saved......

CodyFaith · Feb 12, 2019

JAYPT said:
Absolutely I will! Jesus is my saviour and He is returning for me WITHOUT REFERENCE TO SIN (Hebrews 9:28). I am forgiven and He remembers my sins no more (Hebrews 8:12). My God is not some cosmic jerk but someone who loves me.

Is He going to give me a slap upside the head before I enter heaven? Wow, thats some loving father.

Uhh... k. It's called discipline. Clearly you aren't a fan, as I provided 2 verses that clearly state such a thing is going to happen, but you refuse to hear.

Holy God. Just saying. Loving Father yes... but if you know anything of the OT you know God is not mocked... even by his children whom he loves and has forgiven.

Anyway I don't care, believe what you want, can't be bothered responding to a mocker.

ALL habitual sinners are NOT in a saved state

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