To all:
From my experience of my many dealings with Eternal Security Proponents over my countless discussions with them over the past 5 years, I have learned that there are different degrees or levels to Eternal Security. Most of them justify sin.
The fact is that this poster refuses to deal with my view, the biblical one, that does NOT justify sin in ANY sense. Rather, the focus is on the "different degrees/levels to ES" that are NOT being espoused on this thread.
Even some who claim to be against Eternal Security also will seek to justify sin, too. I know the origin and history of Eternal Security. It started in the Garden with the devil saying to Eve, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (
Genesis 3:4).
What proves that the devil was teaching eternal security here, rather than the much more reasonable idea of physically dying?
In Eternal Security or Belief Alone-ism, they are saying that a person can be immoral like an atheist on some level and still be saved by having a mere belief on Jesus.
Who ever uses the word "mere" in front of 'belief' among the eternal security folk? No, it's the Arminian ilk that uses such perjorative words.
However, I've frequently shared about 24 verses that teach that salvation/eternal life is based on believing in Jesus Christ, with NO MENTION of anything else being required.
So, that proves that salvation/eternal life is gifted on the basis of FAITH ALONE.
Now what is confusing and deceptive is that sometimes the Eternal Security Proponent may say we are to be more Christ like on the one hand and yet on the other hand they say we can sin and still be saved and we will not stop sinning in this life.
There has been much Scripture shared that proves this.
Some say they can sin 24/7 and are saved.
Sin is horrible. It flies in the face of God, who has called and elected believers to be holy and blameless (Eph 1:4). Yet, Jesus was really clear about recipients of eternal life; they shall never perish.
Arminians just can't seem to be able to accept that very clear fact.
Some say you can commit suicide and still be saved.
If suicide results in loss of salvation, please quote any verse that says so. Otherwise, your bias is showing again.
They cannot make up their mind on what they are saying.
I've certainly made up my mind, all based on what very clear verses say, which I've shared over and over. And this poster consistently won't engage.
They contradict themselves.
Here we go again; all of these "they", that aren't on this thread. This poster favors use of straw men to make his argument. He argues against these imaginary people and makes these ludicrous claims about what they say and how they contradict themselves supposedly, and yet cannot deal with my posts.
So listen carefully to them, my friends.
Another empty statement. None of these so-called "they" even post here, so how can anyone listen to any of these imaginary people?
Listen to their own words and you will hear their double message.
Not possible, since they are all imaginary.
For Eternal Security puts out two messages that conflicts with itself. On one hand Eternal Security believers say you are to be holy and then on the other hand they say you can sin and still be saved.
When will this poster explain how these 2 things are contradictory? The claim is empty without proof.
This is clearly wrong because the Bible talks about how we are to be distinct from the world by righteous actions.
This doesn't show that it's "clearly wrong". We are called and elected to be holy and blameless, yet Jesus Himself said recipients of eternal life shall never perish, with NO CONDITIONS for those He gives eternal life.
There is no compromise on doing good. If one is to be holy, then that should be a consistent teaching in everything they say. We are to lead every thought captive to Christ.
This is true and has no bearing on eternal security.
Jesus says,
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).
How can one let their light of good works shine unto men if they are also doing works of darkness? Unbelievers do a mixture of good things and bad things, too.
There is nothing in Matt 5:16 that supports loss of salvation.
Jesus also says,
"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).
But in Eternal Security, you don't have to produce a lot of fruit to be known as Jesus's disciples.
Here, this poster is distorting the view of eternal security. In fact, rebellious believers cannot be distinguished from unbelievers. Paul made that clear in 1 Cor 3:1-3. He told that congregation that they were acting like unbelievers (mere men).
You are saved by a Belief Alone according to them.
No, according to the Bible. The evidence of which you have been given.
Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28. This is clear proof that on the basis of being given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.
And Peter says,
"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).
This shows that we can live properly among our neighbors.
Of course we are commanded to do that. And 1 Pet 2:12 says nothing about losing salvation if we don't live honorably.
But I have heard Eternal Security Proponents say that we all sin 24/7.
There goes all those imaginary posters again.
Here's what else Peter wrote, that this poster won't address:
1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
What this poster and all his Arminian friends CANNOT do is explain how anyone who has been born again of imperishable seed, can perish.
The very idea is preposterous.
Paul says,
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).
We are to be different from the crooked sinful generation that is around us and we are to shine as lights in the world.
Of course we ARE TO BE different.
Yet, Eternal Security Proponents make it sound like we are no different from the crooked sinful generation that we are in.
This is a direct misrepresentation of those who understand biblical eternal security. And this poster cannot cite a single source to support his baseless claim.
Don't take my word for it.
I sure hope not.
Yeah, all those imaginary posters.
Write down everything they say.
Yeah, all those imaginary posters.
You will notice on the one hand they say we all will live more holy, and yet on the other hand they say that they can sin and still be saved.
No one who believes in eternal security that I know (which are many) would EVER say "we all will live more holy". So this is just another misrepresentation by this poster.
What they actually say is: we all SHOULD LIVE more holy, but there is no sin that will cause loss of salvation.
That can be said because there are no verses that say that salvation can be lost for any reason.
It's that simple.
