All Fulfilled at the Cross?

[Frogster]

And nor do we now, well, except for a few who are enticed by religion and feel that a law should supervise them...

some like a strick disciplinarian.

Another tid bit is this..

Actually,the Jewish people needed to be like gentile Abraham,who was justifed as a gentile!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, I agree with this.

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/index.htm

Acts 13:46 Being bold yet Paul and Barnabas said "to ye it was necessary first to be spoken the Word of the God.

ton <3588> logon <3056> tou <3588> qeou <2316>

Hey lookie here! Here comes the Word to them in Person!

Reve 19:11 And I saw the heaven open up and behold! a horse white and the One sitting on him *called faithful* and true and in righteousness is judging and is battling.
13 And having been about-cast a cloak having been *dipped to blood and has been *called the name of Him the Word of the God.

o <3588> logoV <3056> tou <3588> qeou <2316>

 

[Frogster]

Galations 4 : 4, for example:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice the phrase, ("The fullness of The Time"). It is an indication that Yeshua's earthly activities was synchronised to occur at a definite and prearranged point in human history, an event which God foretold (prophecy found within/ under His Law), so that there would be absolutely no confusion about who the son of God, the seed of the woman, really and truly was.

this is the second time this week..I agree.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Galations 4 : 4, for example:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice the phrase, ("The fullness of The Time"). It is an indication that Yeshua's earthly activities was synchronised to occur at a definite and prearranged point in human history, an event which God foretold (prophecy found within/ under His Law), so that there would be absolutely no confusion about who the son of God, the seed of the woman, really and truly was.

Agreed, but what does that have to do with Paul teaching gentiles that the law is no longer in effect? You lost me Sister.

 

[bugkiller]

I have been reading through many posts of many posters and have come to the conclusion that 90% of those that post here regularly believe without a doubt that everything in the Torah and the Prophets has been fulfilled by Jesus on the Cross. I have tried to reason with some (some are unreasonable and can't be reasoned with because they have a tainted view because I am a Jew, and some have even gone so far to say that I blaspheme G-d by following his commandments, as well as listening to Jesus by his command to keep my commandments) but so far that has been unfruitful.

Now a brief study of the gospel of John will show that From our time of knowing that G-d existed (by the words written down my Moses in Genesis) Jesus was also in existence. Of course at that time he had not been born of a human woman, but he was in existence. Now I understand that this is a hard concept to wrap one's mind around, and it takes some doing, but I believe John.



Now it says here that ALL things were made by him, and WITHOUT him Nothing that was made was made. So, that tells me that everything that came into existence did so with him. EVERYTHING.

The word translated from the Greek for 'made' is 'Ginomai'. It's definition is of course to be made but more clearly, 'to begin to be', or to 'come into existence', or to appear at a certain time in history.

This includes the creation of course as John is taking us back there, and it would have to also entail any other creative act.

The Laws of G-d given to Moses on Mt Sinai have to be included here, or we have to throw out the beginning of John.

We also have to throw out what Jesus said "I and the Father are ONE".

So as you can see it stands to reason that Jesus was 100% involved in the creating and giving of the commandments to Israel through Moses.

There are many occasions where G-d is having a communication with man where a visable manifestation is involved. Now G-d is Spirit, but does that mean he can't create a form, a vessel to use for this occasion? If we don't believe that he can do that then we have to not believe these visitations.

Such as

Gen 3:8 Where Adam and Eve hear the sound of G-d walking in the Garden.

or

Gen. 18 Where it specifically says the the L-RD appeared to Abraham in the plains of Mamre, this was shortly before the destruction of Soddom and G'mmorah.

or

Joshua when he came into the land and meet with the 'angel of the L-RD' who told him to remove his shoes for he was standing on HOLY ground. This was not an average messenger, aka angel. Only G-d himself can proclaim a ground Holy, as he did when he spoke to Moses through the burning bush that was not consummed.

There are many more but that should suffice for now. Many call these theopanies, others call them something else, but they are all identified with G-d in a physical form.

So it is my belief that what John writes in the opening of his eye-witness gospel is the Truth.

When Peter was speaking to all the Jews from around the world on that first Shavuot (pentecost) he said to them:

17 He tells us here that what the risen Messiah had come to fulfill, he had fulfilled. But no where does he say that he fulfilled the whole Torah or even all that the Prophets said, there is more to come. If Peter had said this, there would have been a riot and he probably would have been taken off and stoned. INstead this is what happened.



Notice the Peter says here, even after the crucifixion, and arising from the grave and the ascension into heaven that this things are still to come? Which means not everything has been fulfilled, including our sins being blotted out! These will be, WHEN the times of refreshing comes, when the L-RD G-d sends Jesus back, who for now is in heaven until the time when the restitution of all things happens.

Has not happened yet.

So now you must ask yourself and examine the Torah and the prophets as a good scholar would and see what has been fulfilled and what has not.

According to Peter who was commissioned directly by Jesus to be the head of his earthly body and to make what is called Halakcha, which means the way to walk or the way to follow the commandments, which is what Jesus was doing a big part of the time on earth. According to this Peter, Shimon, he tells us through he words to the Jews on Pentecost that they needed to repent and turn back to G-d so that their sins would be forgiven when the "times of refreshing come".

For Jesus said:



But we can see from above from what Peter said, that not all was fulfilled yet, not even our sins being blotted out yet. They have been covered, but not blotted out. There is a difference.

An example of something that Jesus did not fulfill of the prophets because it wasn't directly about him and it was not he who could fulfill it, is this, found in Acts 1, again we see Peter who has the understanding of what his friend and Lord was teaching while he traveled with him day and night for three and a half years. That they needed to attend to fulfilling scripture concerning Judas.



And we see the Peter realizes that the scripture below needs to be fulfilled regarding this:

Then they choose from among all those who have been eye-witnesses to the L-rds ministry and choose two men. Then with the guidance of the Holy Spirit Mattathias is chosen to replace Judas. Now that scripture in the Psalms is fulfilled.

But there are many more, in the prophets and also the Torah that have not.

There are many prophecies in the book of Genesis which haven't been fulfilled and we see by the Prophet Isaiah of when they will be.



All has not been fulfilled so the Torah has not been dissolved, demolished, or annulled according to the one who wrote it and said this.



Destroy = dissolve, demolish, annul.

Thought I would return to the crime scene and check on my post and it turns out to be phantom.

Anyway I would like to respond to your OP. As I read through it I was beginning to wonder where the Mat 5:17, 18 quote was as commonly used in or under such a post title. Ah, at last I found it as a closing remark. I think your focus is wrong. You focused on end time events and the 1,000 reign as LLOJ said is a problem for Jews concerning Mat 5:17, 18. I can certainly follow that.

I think your answer is is found in Luke 24:44 which I quote often.Here it is one more time: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me. This verse defines and limits what all things are in Mat 5:17. And Jesus said It is finished in John 19:30 and in His prayer recorded in John 17:4 Jesus told God I have finished the work Thou hast given Me.

bugkiller

 

[Standing Up]

I have proved gentiles did not keep the feast.

Paul did not want the gentiles keeping,or observing them.Sorry..that is a fact.

Circumcised of the heart now. You too.

 

[nephilimiyr]

some like a strick disciplinarian.

Oh that's good to have though. I know I could use some discipline let me tell yah. The question is though, who disciplines us and by what means? What teaches us or is it who teaches us? Does the law teach us or does the Spirit?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Agreed, but what does that have to do with Paul teaching gentiles that the law is no longer in effect? You lost me Sister.

Perhaps the MJs view of what the OC and NC represents is a little different than that of us lowly "gentile" Christians interpret it

http://www.christianforums.com/t7326950-4/#post50011260
New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrew 8

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-Finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age"
[1 Corin 15:23,24]

Hebrews 8:8 "For faulting to-them He is saying 'behold, days are coming is saying Lord and I shall be together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> (5692) upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a Covenant, New

 

[visionary]

Oh that's good to have though. I know I could use some discipline let me tell yah. The question is though, who disciplines us and by what means? What teaches us or is it who teaches us? Does the law teach us or does the Spirit?

The letter is dead, but the spirit brings it to life in us..

 

[Stryder06]

Galations 4 : 4, for example:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice the phrase, ("The fullness of The Time"). It is an indication that Yeshua's earthly activities was synchronised to occur at a definite and prearranged point in human history, an event which God foretold (prophecy found within/ under His Law), so that there would be absolutely no confusion about who the son of God, the seed of the woman, really and truly was.

I know I'm coming in pretty late, but when I read this it reminds me of the Prophecy in Daniel where the Messiah's death is prophesied

 

[nephilimiyr]

The letter is dead, but the spirit brings it to life in us..

Very good

So would you say then that living by the Spirit, placing all your faith and trust in him, is the only way to keep the law and to do God's will?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The letter is dead, but the spirit brings it to life in us..

The letter also "torments" as it is doing to the "richman" in Luke 16

http://www.christianforums.com/t7458936-7/#post54510139

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yeselves 'a father we are having the Abraham'.
For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God, out of the stones these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being pained in the Flame this."
26 And upon all of these between us and ye a great chasm hath been established so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

 

[visionary]

Very good

So would you say then that living by the Spirit, placing all your faith and trust in him, is the only way to keep the law and to do God's will?

How else are you going to live in His righteousness... you know ours are but filthy rags..

 

[nephilimiyr]

How else are you going to live in His righteousness... you know ours are but filthy rags..

LOL, not by my own efforts that's for sure, been there and tried that, it don't work.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How else are you going to live in His righteousness... you know ours are but filthy rags..

The letter killeth....the Spirit and righteousness brings life......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7460817-2/#post54547712
Matthew 22 and the "Man" not clothed for wedding feast

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King, to gaze of the ones reclining, He saw there a Man not in-slipped/endedu-menon <1746> (5765) cothing of wedding-feast

Luke 16:19 A-Man, yet any, was rich and in-slipped/enedidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple and fine linen making-merry down to a-day, shiningly
[Matt 22:11]

Zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice,He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And it becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit on the chiefs, and on sons of the King,and on all of ones being clothed clothing foreign.
[Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]

 

[Fireinfolding]

Galations 4 : 4, for example:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Notice the phrase, ("The fullness of The Time"). It is an indication that Yeshua's earthly activities was synchronised to occur at a definite and prearranged point in human history, an event which God foretold (prophecy found within/ under His Law), so that there would be absolutely no confusion about who the son of God, the seed of the woman, really and truly was.

And continues...As the woman made under the law speaks to the "THEM" under the law...

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:7 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Though in regards to the "fulness of time" (even as it pertains to the FULLAGE)

Earlier in Gal...

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world

Though under it...

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

There was never a law that could "IMPART LIFE" shows even in Abraham...

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Under the law they WERE DEAD (even as it speaks of Abrahams body as good as dead and speaks of the deadness of her womb) God in both is showing what He would do in performing His good word in them (even in us) as Christ being formed in us is our hope of glory

His words rock

 

[visionary]

And continues...As the woman made under the law speaks to the "THEM" under the law...

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:7 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Though in regards to the "fulness of time" (even as it pertains to the FULLAGE)

Earlier in Gal...

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world

Though under it...

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

There was never a law that could "IMPART LIFE" shows even in Abraham...

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

Under the law they WERE DEAD (even as it speaks of Abrahams body as good as dead and speaks of the deadness of her womb) God in both is showing what He would do in performing His good word in them (even in us) as Christ being formed in us is our hope of glory

His words rock

Every phase of the plan of redemption has an appoint time... they are found in the feasts...

Phase One.. Passover.. Lamb of God, Yeshua died for our sins
Phase Two.. First Fruits/Wave Sheaf... Resurrection of Yeshua
Phase Three.. Pentecost... Baptism of the Holy Spirit

These were fulfilled with His first coming...

Phase Four... Feast of Trumpets... sounds like something right out of Revelation trumpets..
Phase Five.. Day of Atonement... Judgment Day/Wedding Day
Phase Six... Feast of Tabernacles.. Flee to wilderness
Phase Seven... Eighth day.. Resurrection and start new..

This will be fulfilled with His second coming.... That is why they are a shadow of things "TO COME" but the body is of Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
And continues...As the woman made under the law speaks to the "THEM" under the law...

Gal 4:5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Matthew 23:4 "For They are binding burdens, weighty/barea <926> and ill-bearing.
And they are placing upon the shoulders of the men, to the yet finger of them, not are willing to move them".

Corinthians 7:23 Of value/honor ye are purchased/hgorasqhte <59>, no be ye becoming! bond-servents of men.
[Hosea 13:14/Reve 5:9]

Reve 5:9 And they are singing a song new saying "worthy are Thou to be receiving the scroll and to open up the seals of it
that Thou was slaughtered/slain and did purchase to the God of us in the blood of Thee out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation".

 

[angelmom01]

Every phase of the plan of redemption has an appoint time... they are found in the feasts...

Phase One.. Passover.. Lamb of God, Yeshua died for our sins
Phase Two.. First Fruits/Wave Sheaf... Resurrection of Yeshua
Phase Three.. Pentecost... Baptism of the Holy Spirit

These were fulfilled with His first coming...

Phase Four... Feast of Trumpets... sounds like something right out of Revelation trumpets..
Phase Five.. Day of Atonement... Judgment Day/Wedding Day
Phase Six... Feast of Tabernacles.. Flee to wilderness
Phase Seven... Eighth day.. Resurrection and start new..

This will be fulfilled with His second coming.... That is why they are a shadow of things "TO COME" but the body is of Christ.

Did Jesus say that ~HE~ is the resurrection and the life and that ~NOW~ is the judgment of this world? even: "I am come to send fire on the earth"?

 

[visionary]

Did Jesus say that ~HE~ is the resurrection and the life and that ~NOW~ is the judgment of this world? even: "I am come to send fire on the earth"?

more still to come...