alcoholism

[Destiny78]

Hi...hmm...guess I will post something in here. I keep coming in here to see if there are any new posts on this, but not so far, so I will post. What makes someone an alcoholic? I have a friend that drinks everyday, but she only drinks maybe one or two mixed drinks. On the weekends she often gets drunk or "tipsy" though. She doesn't usually drink in the morning unless she is really stressed out, but just one or two in the evening socially. I don't know if she feels addicted or not, but where do you draw the line between a social drinker and an alcoholic? Are there different levels of alcoholism? Thanks...

 

[Big C]

Hi DESTINY,
I was an alcoholic before I got saved, truth told...though the Holy Spirit gives me the strength to avoid drinking, I've never lost the ability to drink heavily if I gave in. Personally, I'm leary of the term "social drinker". Lets face it,alcohol doesn't taste like strawberries n cream, not to mention the fact that it is poisonous to our bodies (i.e. "intoxicated" produces the drunken feeling as our body fights the toxins).So why not socialize with juice or soda?
Why do we need alcohol to socialize, or to deal with stress, or to fall asleep, ect? We choose to cloud our conscience,inhibitions,and realities...but eventually it takes over! Any time you need to alter your state to cope or feel accepted there's a problem. I say this through first hand expirience. If your friend was smoking cocaine "socially" how would you feel? Or slitting her wrists "socially"?
Drinking is a form of self-destruction too.Understanding that people drink for many reasons, but "why" must be dealt with, not escaped through alcohol. I would express my concern to her...I wish someone would have before it took me under!

 

[chilehed]

My experience is that it has as much to do with why I drank, how it made me feel and the kind of person I became when drunk, as it did with how much or how often I drank.

Clinically one looks for signs that drinking results in a failure to fulfill obligations at work, school or home; recurrent use in situations where it is hazardous (like driving); legal problems; or continued use despite having recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of alcohol.

When your friends start wondering whether or not you have a problem, it's not a good sign. The same for if you wonder if you yourself have a problem.

 

[icon]

drinking has caused me nothing but - shame - isolation - loneliness. Alcholics are never cured. i can drink on several occasions after a period of abstinence.
Then the bottles build up under the seat over that period of time and
i suddenly find things have gone wrong again.a job lost or family estranged.
i cannot drink - and i try to find faith to beleive in god, and hope he doesnt lose patience with me.

 

[O'Factry]

Welcome and God Bless, icon!

God will never lose patience. God is still working in my life, and I have stressed him as much as anyone could.

If you have any more specific questions or just want to share, please post or PM someone. You can read the various threads and maybe connect well with someone.

 

[Debi1967]

Well now that no one has really answered your question I will.....
See if you can talk to your friend and see if she is agreeable to not drinking for two weeks and can keep that up without fail and then see if her first compulsion is after those two weeks are over is to have a drink first thing. These are all signs that your friend is an alcoholic that either she fails during that two week period and majes an excuse for it or it is the first thing she runs back to after it is done...They are called Weekend Warriors or Social Alcoholics and usually they are drinking more than people realize.

 

[Starcrystal]

Destiny75,
What makes someone an alcoholic? I have a friend that drinks everyday, but she only drinks maybe one or two mixed drinks. On the weekends she often gets drunk or "tipsy" though. She doesn't usually drink in the morning unless she is really stressed out, but just one or two in the evening socially. I don't know if she feels addicted or not, but where do you draw the line between a social drinker and an alcoholic?

If it were just the one or two drinks once in awhile it probably wouldn't be bad. But the weekend partying and the occasional morning drinking when stressed out is a problem.
Trying to get someone to stop on their own power wouldn't really work. By will power a person can stop temporarily, but the desire & motivators to drink will still be there. So as soon as something realy stressful comes along, she'll most likely hit the bottle again.
What a person needs is a life changing transformation by Jesus Christ. If they're not willing to accept this, the next best to do is pray for them and set an example by your own life. Sometimes when friends see you stop they'll want to know how, and its an opportunity to share with them how God gave you the power to overcome the addiction.

"BE NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD, BUT BE TRANSFORMED BY THE RENEWING OF YOUR MIND." ~ Romans 12:2

If we pray and let God give us that new mind, this can solve the drinking problems, and if she's not willing to recieve Jesus, the next best thing is pray for her....

This message, "A NEW MIND" might be helpful for you to understand:
http://arwensoracle.tripod.com/theprophetcrucible/id16.html

(This probably addresses your other thread as well, maybe more than this one.)

 

[P_G]

Hi...hmm...guess I will post something in here. I keep coming in here to see if there are any new posts on this, but not so far, so I will post. What makes someone an alcoholic? I have a friend that drinks everyday, but she only drinks maybe one or two mixed drinks. On the weekends she often gets drunk or "tipsy" though. She doesn't usually drink in the morning unless she is really stressed out, but just one or two in the evening socially. I don't know if she feels addicted or not, but where do you draw the line between a social drinker and an alcoholic? Are there different levels of alcoholism? Thanks...

Destiny Blessings!

Let me do the best I can at touching some of the points here.
I am indeed an alcoholic and I have not drank in nearly 20 years.
I also work at a prison with men who are there many times for DUI and
other alcohol/drug related crimes
Also Nehemiah Center is in part a sort of Christian Half way house for those Christians in recovery from Alcohol and drugs.
I am also an Ordained Pastor with Full Life Ministries Int.

There now that I have qualified myself

First off Alcoholism is a defineable disease as recognized by the AMA
It has both physical, psychological and spirtual components. For our discussion I will confine to only the physical and psycological parts.

Alcoholism is a physical addiction to eythl alcohol with a psycological compulsion to continue to consume it. This means that the alcoholic is both physically and psycologically addicted to this substance.

Interestingly enough not all alcoholics drink every day. Some may go weeks with out imbibing. But these "periodic" or "episodic" alcoholics will go on what can only be described as a tear and get in heaps of trouble for it!

Also alcholisim is a progressive disease - This means that it continues to get worse as one gets older and more quickly if one drinks rather than abstains. What this means is that if I after 20 years began drinking again I would not pick up where I left off but that I would be at the same point as if I had never stopped. I would drink more and be less tolerant of the substance than I was say at 18 years of age.
There is a great deal of debate as to whether alcoholism is learned, placed or genetic. A person may have alcoholic parents and not be an alcoholic themselves and vice versa. One may never have been exposed to alcohol at all and yet be off to the races the first time they try it. What we know is that it exists. And that it affects about 10 - 15% of the population.

An alcoholic can never drink successfully. The only adequate physical treatment is to completely abstain from drinking. Group therepy like AA, Overcommers Through Christ and Christian Recovery are all excellent tools to assist the person addicted to alcohol to be set free from the addiction.

Like all other diseseases and illnesses Jesus can heal absolutely. And the spirtual effect of alcoholism can only really be healed by Christ!

Ask you friend if the last few times they have been in trouble they have been drinking. Not that every time they drink they are in trouble but every time they have been in trouble they have been drinking.

Do they experience black outs or lost time?

Do they regret behavior they have done while intoxicated?

Do they lie about or ask others to lie about the amount they are drinking

Do they feel uncomfortable if they do not begin drinking by a certain time of day (got to have a drink by 6:00 PM)

Have they lost time from work or school because of drinking or being hung over?

Have they been aproached about their drinking by friends, family or employers

Do they think they drink too much?


Regardless you cannot stop the alcoholic from drinking only they can do that. Be blessed and pray for them. Jehovah Jireh!


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[O'Factry]

Do you have any contact information for Overcommers Through Christ? I could not find it on a web search.

I found Christian Recovery on the web, but unfortunately they do not have any groups near me. Neither does AV or lifering. In fact there is nothing here except AA and private councelling services.

 

[P_G]

Do you have any contact information for Overcommers Through Christ? I could not find it on a web search.

I found Christian Recovery on the web, but unfortunately they do not have any groups near me. Neither does AV or lifering. In fact there is nothing here except AA and private councelling services.

I am not sure but I think Overcommers is more for people comming out of prison than anything else. But I will call over to my friend Pastor Roger who I work with at the local prison and find out.

In the meantime if you have a drinking problem and want to stop I want to urge you to call the number listed for AA in your phone book.

This is a sneaky and merciless disease and it surely wants you dead. A tool of the devil to be sure. I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, inprisonment and hospitalization.

Blessings

Pastor George

 

[clonenomore]

...I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, imprisonment and hospitalization...

I know that this is not an answer to the original post, but I want to add my 2 cents worth here on AA. Like Nehemiah_Center, I realize that many "church" people condemn AA. However, I have seen many friends who have been and continue to be helped by that organization. My two best friends both attend AA. Additionally, we all attend the same church. I think that that is the secret -- attendance at AA and participation at a strong church. The fellowship and support is very important. Again, just my 2 cents worth...

 

[O'Factry]

... I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, inprisonment and hospitalization....

That's a very interesting statement. Is that an educated opinion only, or do you have statistical/anecdotal evidence? Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but I'd really like to see hard evidence of that. In fact I'd like to see some real, hard, evidence about all aspects of recovery. For some reason, objective scientific statistics seem to be scarce in this field.

 

[Debi1967]

I would like to share a few things directly from the AA website...
THE RELIGIOUS VIEW ON A.A.

Clergymen of practically every denomination have given A.A. their blessing.

Edward Dowling, S.J.,* of the Queen’s Work staff, says, “Alcoholics Anonymous is natural; it is natural at the point where nature comes closest to the supernatural, namely in humiliations and in consequent humility. There is something spiritual about an art museum or a symphony, and the Catholic Church approves of our use of them. There is something spiritual about A.A. too, and Catholic participation in it almost invariably results in poor Catholics becoming better Catholics.”

The Episcopal magazine, The Living Church, observes editorially: “The basis of the technique of Alcoholics Anonymous is the truly Christian principle that a man cannot help himself except by helping others. The A.A. plan is described by the members themselves as ‘self-insurance.’ This self-insurance has resulted in the restoration of physical, mental and spiritual health and self-respect to hundreds of men and women who would be hopelessly down and out without its unique but effective therapy.”

Speaking at a dinner given by John D. Rockefeller Jr. to introduce Alcoholics Anonymous to some of his friends, Dr. Harry Emerson Fosdick remarked:

“I think that psychologically speaking there is a point of advantage in the approach that is being made in this movement that cannot be duplicated. I suspect that if it is wisely handled—and it seems to be in wise and prudent hands—there are doors of opportunity ahead of this project that may surpass our capacities to imagine.”

_____
* Father Ed, an early and wonderful friend of A.A., died in the spring of 1960.
© Copyright 2004 Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
All Right Reserved

 

[P_G]

That's a very interesting statement. Is that an educated opinion only, or do you have statistical/anecdotal evidence? Nothing wrong with stating your opinion, but I'd really like to see hard evidence of that. In fact I'd like to see some real, hard, evidence about all aspects of recovery. For some reason, objective scientific statistics seem to be scarce in this field.

Umm in regards to which part of the statement that many in churches talk down AA or the statistics on how effective AA is verses church based recovery alone?

Let me know and I will expound on either.

Blessings

PG

 

[O'Factry]

Nehemiah_Center,

I am referring directly to this statement:
"I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, inprisonment and hospitalization...."

So, my question is; have you had direct experience with people who reverted to drunkeness because "church people" told them that AA was a religion? Or, in a broader sense, do you have any evidence that people fall off the wagon as a direct result of anti-AA rhetoric of any kind?

You have a lot of recovery experience, and if that is your honost opinion, then I can respect that. I just want to know if you have any evidence to support that opinion. This isn't a "lawyer" question. I have a real interest in learning the answer.

 

[Debi1967]

the twelve steps of AA
1 We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol-
that our lives had become unmanageable
2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves
can restore us to sanity
3 Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to
the care of God as we understood him
4 Made a searching and fearless moral inventory
of ourselves
5Admitted to God, ourselves, and to another human
being the exact nature of our wrongs
6 Were entirely ready to have Him remove all these
defects of character
7 Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings
8 Made a list of all the persons we have harmed, and
became willing to make ammends to them all
9 Made direct ammends to such people whenever possible,
except when to do so would injure them or others
10Continued to take personal inventory of ourselves and
when we were wrong promptly admitted it
11Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our
conscience contact with God as we understood Him, praying
only knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry
that out
12Having had a Spiritual awakening as a result of these steps,
we try to carry this message to other alcoholics and practice
these principles in all our affairs

Now can someone please tell me what is the problem with these steps....


About A.A.

Alcoholics Anonymous® is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.



Copyright © by The A.A. Grapevine, Inc.

 

[P_G]

Nehemiah_Center,

I am referring directly to this statement:
"I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, inprisonment and hospitalization...."

So, my question is; have you had direct experience with people who reverted to drunkeness because "church people" told them that AA was a religion? Or, in a broader sense, do you have any evidence that people fall off the wagon as a direct result of anti-AA rhetoric of any kind?

You have a lot of recovery experience, and if that is your honost opinion, then I can respect that. I just want to know if you have any evidence to support that opinion. This isn't a "lawyer" question. I have a real interest in learning the answer.

First I want to thank you so much for the very nice PM you sent me.
And be surely aware that I have pretty thick skin and you are not going to upset me. I am not here to sell anything to you thats for sure.

The answer is yes I have seen direct situations where pastors have

1 Thrown AA out of their churches because they felt it was "of the devil"
2 Told congregants that if they were in AA they were not saved and not welcome in the church. These people predictably went back out and drank again, no longer having support.
3 Watched as well meaning church people shunned a person who admitted to being set free from Alcohol / drugs and being in AA.
4 I have personally been attacked and ridiculed for my past by what I like to call "the always saved" (people who grew up in the church and seem to have just been saved because they showed up)

Facts

About 12% of all persons starting in the AA program ever gain long term soberiety (this being defined as persons who are completely abstinant from alcohol and other intoxicants for a period of 5 or more contigious years)

Of people "doing it in the church" ie placing full faith in Christ and being delivered from the "sin" of alcoholism the number is less than 1%

Of People who are active in AA and are strong beleivers (attend church regularly and are firm in their faith) the number jumps to an astounding 65%


And being a person who is indeed sober for 20 years I can tell you that almost 100% of the people I know who acheive that kind of length of time are faithful and very much working on their relationship with Christ.


The problem is not that the Lord cannot heal some one from alcholism for surely he can and does. The problem is that men try to define how the Lord does this miracle of healing.

I want to again urge you if you are drinking and don't know how or cannot stop
GET HELP

Let me have done some of the suffering for you. You can get off the elevator any place you want. Don't wait till you have no friends, home, family left to loose. Don't wait till you are arested and 1st 2nd or 3rd time. If you get sober you will get better.

I pray blessings uppon you

Pastor George

 

[Miss Shelby]

Hi...hmm...guess I will post something in here. I keep coming in here to see if there are any new posts on this, but not so far, so I will post. What makes someone an alcoholic? I have a friend that drinks everyday, but she only drinks maybe one or two mixed drinks. On the weekends she often gets drunk or "tipsy" though. She doesn't usually drink in the morning unless she is really stressed out, but just one or two in the evening socially. I don't know if she feels addicted or not, but where do you draw the line between a social drinker and an alcoholic? Are there different levels of alcoholism? Thanks...

There are not different levels of alcholism. And if your friend is drinking in the morning AT ALL...she has a problem.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Do you have any contact information for Overcommers Through Christ? I could not find it on a web search.

I found Christian Recovery on the web, but unfortunately they do not have any groups near me. Neither does AV or lifering. In fact there is nothing here except AA and private councelling services.

Overcomers through Christ might not have a website but they do exist. Try http://christianrecovery.com/ again, and if you find nothing on there, send them an email. They can probably get you some information.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Nehemiah_Center,

I am referring directly to this statement:
"I know many "church" people hate AA and call it religion and what not, and in doing so condemn many to what is obvioiusly much worse - a life of drunkeness, inprisonment and hospitalization...."

So, my question is; have you had direct experience with people who reverted to drunkeness because "church people" told them that AA was a religion? Or, in a broader sense, do you have any evidence that people fall off the wagon as a direct result of anti-AA rhetoric of any kind?

You have a lot of recovery experience, and if that is your honost opinion, then I can respect that. I just want to know if you have any evidence to support that opinion. This isn't a "lawyer" question. I have a real interest in learning the answer.

Then call the nearest AA chapter office in your area and ask them. Why you continually want to question AA is beyond me. A girl is here asking for help for her friend, and here you go again.

Michelle