Alcoholics and Addicts Discussion/Support Thread

JaneFW · Feb 17, 2006

I'm struggling today! Is there anyone around right now? We just got our tax refund, and my brain is begging for an expensive bottle of wine .. of which I would only have 2 glasses, and not drink the whole lot, and not want another ............... lies, all lies - lies of the enemy in fact. I hope there is someone around today. I need some help/support/prayer.

SOTK · Feb 18, 2006

Laurentia said:
I'm struggling today! Is there anyone around right now? We just got our tax refund, and my brain is begging for an expensive bottle of wine .. of which I would only have 2 glasses, and not drink the whole lot, and not want another ............... lies, all lies - lies of the enemy in fact. I hope there is someone around today. I need some help/support/prayer.

I'm sorry I wasn't around earlier. I pray things are well! Before you drink, talk to somebody or go to a meeting!

LoG · Feb 18, 2006

Hope and pray you 're doing ok, Laurentia. We do like to drink when times are good or bad don't we? I agree that taking in some meetings will do you good.

cajunlady · Feb 18, 2006

Laurentia said:
I'm struggling today! Is there anyone around right now? We just got our tax refund, and my brain is begging for an expensive bottle of wine .. of which I would only have 2 glasses, and not drink the whole lot, and not want another ............... lies, all lies - lies of the enemy in fact. I hope there is someone around today. I need some help/support/prayer.

Hi Laurentia,
Sorry I wasn't here yesterday but I do hope that you are o.k. Please let us know how you are doing. May God be with you..Praying for you..

SOTK · Feb 19, 2006

How's it going, Laurentia?

johnnieboy · Feb 19, 2006

I once heard a quote that said "If you feel you're at the end of your rope, let go!" I really have found this to have a real point of truth in it. I have been struggling with alchol and other addictions for years and tried all kinds of things to fight them. I didn't find any peace until I gave up. I had been fighting so hard to get control of my life, just so focused on stopping the behavior.

I read Bob George's book "classis Christianity" as well as "victory over depression", and I found some things that really helped me have some peace.

The problem with addictions are not the behaviour, I learned that the hard way, I could stop drinking for a while, then I would pick up some other habit that became and addiction, then stop it, and go back to alchol.. It just became so frustrating, I didn't know where to turn. The church I was going to didn't know what I was going through because I didn't want them to know, for fear of being condemned.

What I have come to understand is that the whole battle begins with the mind. Here are some great truths to focus on when you find yourself wanting to take that drink, pop that pill, look at the internet site, etc ( you can just fill in the blank, they all pretty much come from the same place)

In the Book of 1Cor. Paul was adressing what we now know as one of the most corrupted churches in his time, they were celebrating the fact that one of its members was commiting incest, etc. But in I Cor 6:9-11, he goes throught this "list" which condemns all these people, among some of which were "drunkards" and a whole lot of things some of us deal with in these addictions. but in verse 11, he says, get this, "but such were were some of you, but you are washed, sanctified, justified" (paraphrased). Notice that he says you are washed, sanctified, and justified. And he was talking to a group that had some real problems in the church, not a bunch of real spiritual heros.

Identity is what I'm getting at here. Our Identity is, according to Scripture:

In Christ: I Cor. 1:30
Part of His Body I Cor 12:12-14, Rom 12:4-5
Delivered from darkness to light Acts 26:18, I Thess 5:4-5, I peter 2:9, Eph. 5:8
Joint heirs with Christ Rom. 8:17, Gal. 4:7
Citizenship in heaven Phil. 3:20
Clothed with Christ Gal. 3:27
Hidden in Christ Col 3:3-4
Free from fear walking in His love Rom 8:15, I John 4:18(Praise God for this one!)
This is just the short list, there's about 30 more of these in the Bible, but I wanted to list some of the key ones

Rom 12:1-2 tells us to renew our minds, surrender our selves as living sacrifices. The freedom we have in Christ is freedom from what? Freedom from the bondage of sin. We are free from sin, free "to walk in the newness of Life".

The Next time you hear that voice saying "I could really use a drink, it's been a hard day". Renew your mind, remind yourself that your identity is not as an alchoholic, you are a child of God, free from the bondage of sin. If you are an alchoholic, then the natural thing for you to do it to drink. But you aren't. remember the truth

Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free"
If the truth set you free - than error puts you in bondage - Bob George.

JaneFW · Feb 21, 2006

johnnieboy said:
The Next time you hear that voice saying "I could really use a drink, it's been a hard day". Renew your mind, remind yourself that your identity is not as an alchoholic, you are a child of God, free from the bondage of sin. If you are an alchoholic, then the natural thing for you to do it to drink. But you aren't. remember the truth

Jesus said "you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free"
If the truth set you free - than error puts you in bondage - Bob George.

That's an awesome truth, that I really needed to hear. I didn't have a good weekend, but yesterday was better, and today even better than that. Every day is a new blessing from God.

<Reminding myself right now that I am a child of God>

johnnieboy · Feb 22, 2006

I had some thoughts today that really encouraged me, I hope they will encourage you as well.

One of the things that I've come to understand about addictions over the years is that in truth they really are dependencies. I think the term "alcohol or drug dependency" is a good term. More specifically it is a dependecy on the emotion that it brings. Our flesh really thrives on emotion, and you can pretty much fill in the blank with anything that stimulates our emotions, and whatever it is it can become an addiction.

I started to think about how powerful that depency is, and it is pretty sobering, some people will do anything to get that emotional high, even illegal things, that's how strong that dependecy is. Its hard to argue with feelings, I know it to be a fact that if I resort to this habit, I will have an immediate satisfaction, what my flesh is so good at forgetting is the awful consequences it brings later, but it doesn't care about that, just as long as it gets its fix.

So what it comes down to is dependency, and the only thing strong enough to combat a dependency like this is dependency on something far greater that transcends this, and that is a dependency on Christ.

The tough thing with this in my life has been learning to depend on Him. It has to be by faith, I can't see Him and sometimes I don't understand what it is He has for me. Someone once told me that addictions are our way of fulfilling legitamate needs with illegitmate methods. This is so true, I know that God has a way to fulfill my needs, and He knows me better than I know myself, and the things that I truly need. So why is it so hard to depend on Him?

So I thought about it for a while, and the Holy Spirit kind of slapped me up the side of the head with a hard truth.... I don't depend on Him because I don't think He is dependable. That was tough to take, but it set me thinking on why I don't find Him dependable. So I thought about people in my life that I haven't found dependable, and why I don't find them dependable. I came up with three things.

1. They haven't proved themselves dependable in the past, they let me down in some way. Then I thought about how I think of God, this one didn't fit, I can't think of any time when He's let me down.

2. I don't know them enough to be able to depend on them. I thought about God and this kind of fit my feelings. Sometimes I forget the truths about His love and character. But this one didn't really hit me as much as the next one.

3. I know them to be dependable, but over time, I've just managed to forget the times they've been dependable.

This last one is where I'm at, I know God is dependable, but because of Satan's lies, the cares of this world and so many other things, I've managed to forget how and when He was dependable.

So then I started trying to remember the times He didn't let me down. I got to thinking, that in order for Him to not let me down, there had to be an opportunity for Him to do so. And this is what really blew me away. That moment in the garden, when He was agonizing over the thought of how, if He took the cup that was placed before Him, He would experience a pain that none of us will ever understand. I'm not talking about the physical pain, but the spiritual one of taking every filthy rotten thing that has been done, and will ever be done upon Himself. A pain from knowing that because of that sin His father would have to turn His back on Him, and He would experience a wrath from the the Father that He loved with a love beyond any of us can ever understand. And as He agonized over this, desiring that the father's plan of salvation would be fullfilled, but not wanting to suffer that pain, He said "If it is possible, if there is some other way, let this cup pass from me" But then He said those wonderful words that made me understand how dependable He is, "nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done". I couldn't help but bawl my eyes out as I was driving down the road thinking about this. If there was any reason for me to be able to depend on Him, this was it. This moment in time that is so hard to understand, how He could choose to suffer the wrath that we deserved from a Father He loved, because of a awesome love for the very people that deserved that wrath.

So the next time temptation comes knocking on my door, with God's help, I want to remember this, and know that through eyes of faith, I can see a Saviour who I know by faith is dependable enough for me to place my dependency on Him, not on that quick fix that will only lead to pain.

I have so much more to say on this, but I wanted to try to keep it as short as possible. I hope this encourages you through your days ahead.

In Christ
Johnnieboy

cajunlady · Feb 23, 2006

johnnieboy said:
I had some thoughts today that really encouraged me, I hope they will encourage you as well.

One of the things that I've come to understand about addictions over the years is that in truth they really are dependencies. I think the term "alcohol or drug dependency" is a good term. More specifically it is a dependecy on the emotion that it brings. Our flesh really thrives on emotion, and you can pretty much fill in the blank with anything that stimulates our emotions, and whatever it is it can become an addiction.

I started to think about how powerful that depency is, and it is pretty sobering, some people will do anything to get that emotional high, even illegal things, that's how strong that dependecy is. Its hard to argue with feelings, I know it to be a fact that if I resort to this habit, I will have an immediate satisfaction, what my flesh is so good at forgetting is the awful consequences it brings later, but it doesn't care about that, just as long as it gets its fix.

So what it comes down to is dependency, and the only thing strong enough to combat a dependency like this is dependency on something far greater that transcends this, and that is a dependency on Christ.

The tough thing with this in my life has been learning to depend on Him. It has to be by faith, I can't see Him and sometimes I don't understand what it is He has for me. Someone once told me that addictions are our way of fulfilling legitamate needs with illegitmate methods. This is so true, I know that God has a way to fulfill my needs, and He knows me better than I know myself, and the things that I truly need. So why is it so hard to depend on Him?

So I thought about it for a while, and the Holy Spirit kind of slapped me up the side of the head with a hard truth.... I don't depend on Him because I don't think He is dependable. That was tough to take, but it set me thinking on why I don't find Him dependable. So I thought about people in my life that I haven't found dependable, and why I don't find them dependable. I came up with three things.

1. They haven't proved themselves dependable in the past, they let me down in some way. Then I thought about how I think of God, this one didn't fit, I can't think of any time when He's let me down.

2. I don't know them enough to be able to depend on them. I thought about God and this kind of fit my feelings. Sometimes I forget the truths about His love and character. But this one didn't really hit me as much as the next one.

3. I know them to be dependable, but over time, I've just managed to forget the times they've been dependable.

This last one is where I'm at, I know God is dependable, but because of Satan's lies, the cares of this world and so many other things, I've managed to forget how and when He was dependable.

So then I started trying to remember the times He didn't let me down. I got to thinking, that in order for Him to not let me down, there had to be an opportunity for Him to do so. And this is what really blew me away. That moment in the garden, when He was agonizing over the thought of how, if He took the cup that was placed before Him, He would experience a pain that none of us will ever understand. I'm not talking about the physical pain, but the spiritual one of taking every filthy rotten thing that has been done, and will ever be done upon Himself. A pain from knowing that because of that sin His father would have to turn His back on Him, and He would experience a wrath from the the Father that He loved with a love beyond any of us can ever understand. And as He agonized over this, desiring that the father's plan of salvation would be fullfilled, but not wanting to suffer that pain, He said "If it is possible, if there is some other way, let this cup pass from me" But then He said those wonderful words that made me understand how dependable He is, "nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done". I couldn't help but bawl my eyes out as I was driving down the road thinking about this. If there was any reason for me to be able to depend on Him, this was it. This moment in time that is so hard to understand, how He could choose to suffer the wrath that we deserved from a Father He loved, because of a awesome love for the very people that deserved that wrath.

So the next time temptation comes knocking on my door, with God's help, I want to remember this, and know that through eyes of faith, I can see a Saviour who I know by faith is dependable enough for me to place my dependency on Him, not on that quick fix that will only lead to pain.

I have so much more to say on this, but I wanted to try to keep it as short as possible. I hope this encourages you through your days ahead.

In Christ
Johnnieboy

Thank you Johnnieboy for that wonderful post, I needed to be reminded of that. May God bless you..

AwesomeMachine · Feb 23, 2006

12 step groups liken the devil to a disease. Everything you don't like can be attributed to the disease. A nebulous god is created by each individual, which can help with severe addiction, but allows other sins to remain intact. This is a god with no moral restraint, except what you give him. That is New Age religion. It is a way to get relief from sins, and have god, without moral restraint.

In a 12 step program, people confess their sins to each other. This is sacrament handed down by Jesus Christ, without the forgiveness part. 12 step members never forgive each other, thus cheating themselves out of the true Sacrament of reconciliation. Without forgiveness, 12 step programs are addictive. You keep going and going, confessing the same sins over and over. People do this for years.

If you go to Roman Catholic confession, and confess all the sins you ever committed, along with all the sins other people did to you, which you now carry as pain, fear, and ignorance; the Priest will grant you absolution, and you will receive forgiveness. All sins the person knows of must be confessed. You cannot hold back sins from the Priest. If you do, you leave the confessional with one more sin than you walked in with. That sin is lying to God, and it is a mortal sin. You also need contrition, and repentance for a valid confession. If you aren't sorry for what you did, or intend to do it again, your sins are not forgiven.

If you need some pharmaceutical help with addiction, there is a drug available which will stem chemical addiction. See this post:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2639307-if-you-use-marijuana-amphetamines-opiates-or-alcohol.html#post22167903

JaneFW · Feb 23, 2006

I don't go to AA, but I do go to Celebrate Recovery, which is an awesome, bible based, Christian recovery program.

The link is here: http://www.celebraterecovery.com/index.asp

I can highly recommend this program.

johnnieboy · Feb 23, 2006

Just another thought on dependency.

Addictions are in fact, misplaced dependencies. Placing dependency on the flesh, or substances to meet our needs.

If we simply desire to end and addiction, we really don't need God to do that. An atheist, buddhist, or anyone for that matter can use methods to be free from addictions. The common factor in all these methods is usually to shift a person's dependency to something else. AA uses the concept of a "Higher Power". Others might use discipline or will power that depends on fear of social rejection, negative legal repercussions, etc.

So the question we need to ask is, how are we as Christians different than the rest of the world when it comes to overcoming addictions? The difference should lie in a desire to end a dependency on this weak, sinful flesh, and walk in the "newness of life" based on a depency on the Life of Christ in us.

I'm beginning to understand more and more that this struggle is really about me giving up a long battle of depending on the readily available instant gratifcation of the flesh. I think I'm beginning to understand more and more what Titus 2:11-14 means

11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

I've suffered a lot of pain because of the things I've placed my dependence on. But it is not in vain, I know through the pain God is showing me some beautiful lessons about my identity, dependency, humility and God's wonderful love and grace.

If you've not heard the song by Stephen Curtis Chapman called "Declaration of dependence" I would encourage you to get a copy of it, it's on his CD "Declaration". Its a great encouraging song. here are some of the words:

"Now, let me say that I’m the kind of guy who wants to do it all myself
Don’t want to ask for help, don’t like to stop for directions, oh, oh
But in reality I’m nothing on my own
It’s by God’s grace alone that I can make this confession
All that I am and all I’m hoping to be
Is all and only what He’s given to me
So I say…

This is my declaration of my need
This is my declaration of dependence
On the one who gave His life to me"

Have a blessed day

AngelDove1 · Feb 24, 2006

Hey everyone......

"But for the grace of God" .....There go I

Thx to the dear Lord Jesus....I had 24 yrs clean and sober......

The GLORY BELONGS TO THE LORD....aLL OF IT.

SOTK · Feb 24, 2006

I wrote the below quote earlier in this thread:

LAWise520,

In my opinion, what you need is to recognize and truly believe the truth that you are a Child of God! Many Christians do not believe this nor really recognize this Biblical truth.

Before becoming saved, we are all "Children of Wrath". That is to say that we are all born into sin from the womb and are totally depraved. We are dead spiritually and are drawn to darkness (Satan).

As fully regenerated Blood Bought Children of the King, we are spiritually alive and in Christ! Our "old sin nature" was crucified along with Christ on the Cross. When Christ crucified our "our old sin nature" and we accepted His most gracious and wonderful atoning blood, we became new creatures. We became Children of God! We became Saints!

See, most Christians hear stuff like this but do not fully take this in. For centuries and decades, Christians have been taught that we are sinners. This really isn't the case. We are Children of God and Saints who sin. This is a positional truth. Taking on a "I'm a sinner" identity or a "I am a piece of garbage alcoholic" idenity is not Biblical nor is it the Truth.

Can Children of God stumble? Yes. Is it possible for Children of God to sin? Yes. Are we sinners? No. If you were take a hard look at how Christians are referred to in the Bible, you would see that we are never referred to as sinners. That term is almost exclusively reserved for the lost.

Taking on a failure identity and sin identity as a Christian is wrong. It's no wonder that most Christians have such low opinions of themselves. They are not placing their identity in Christ!

Well, I hope what I have said makes sense to you. I can not emphasize enough to you the importance of your idenity in Christ. If you continue to identify with a fallen sin nature, you are not only wrong in doing so but will continue to fall. Not only that, but you keep crucifying Christ over and over and over again. Christ died once for you! You were reborn and became a Child of God once!

Place your identity in Him!

In Christ,

SOTK

As can be seen, I also place a great amount of significance on our Identity in Christ. It really is the truth and has been a truth which has completely set me free.

SOTK · Feb 24, 2006

AngelDove1 said:
Hey everyone......

"But for the grace of God" .....There go I

Thx to the dear Lord Jesus....I had 24 yrs clean and sober......

The GLORY BELONGS TO THE LORD....aLL OF IT.

SOTK · Feb 24, 2006

AwesomeMachine said:
12 step groups liken the devil to a disease. Everything you don't like can be attributed to the disease. A nebulous god is created by each individual, which can help with severe addiction, but allows other sins to remain intact. This is a god with no moral restraint, except what you give him. That is New Age religion. It is a way to get relief from sins, and have god, without moral restraint.

In a 12 step program, people confess their sins to each other. This is sacrament handed down by Jesus Christ, without the forgiveness part. 12 step members never forgive each other, thus cheating themselves out of the true Sacrament of reconciliation. Without forgiveness, 12 step programs are addictive. You keep going and going, confessing the same sins over and over. People do this for years.

If you go to Roman Catholic confession, and confess all the sins you ever committed, along with all the sins other people did to you, which you now carry as pain, fear, and ignorance; the Priest will grant you absolution, and you will receive forgiveness. All sins the person knows of must be confessed. You cannot hold back sins from the Priest. If you do, you leave the confessional with one more sin than you walked in with. That sin is lying to God, and it is a mortal sin. You also need contrition, and repentance for a valid confession. If you aren't sorry for what you did, or intend to do it again, your sins are not forgiven.

If you need some pharmaceutical help with addiction, there is a drug available which will stem chemical addiction. See this post:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2639307-if-you-use-marijuana-amphetamines-opiates-or-alcohol.html#post22167903

I appreciate your opinion, my friend, but disagree with the Priest stuff ( I was once a Catholic who became a Protestant). I do not want to sidetrack this thread so will refrain from engaging. If you would like to discuss this further, we could start a new thread.

I will say this much: there is nothing wrong with confessing sins to one another, however, I will admit that this takes discernment (not everything should be shared in a group setting). Yes, confession does work better when an individual seeks forgiveness from God, but the act of confessing sins to each other promotes, usually, the individual to seek the forgiveness of God. He is the only one who can forgive- not a man.

SOTK

JamieGraham · Feb 24, 2006

The ones who either don't drink/use, or are able to recover, are the ones who really surrender to God, let Him into their lives and let their will become His.

This comment is so very true. I drank for 20 years thinking it was all ok as everyone did. It was not. I am greatful and devoted to God fully for lifting that evil disease from me.

LAWISE 530....Didn't you hear? I like rollercoasters!!!! But no matter, I read you loud and clear....and you know something else....I just don't care. I don't care what happens to me, I don't care about being in pain, dying early, throwing up the last three meals with the booze, I don't care if I can't read, write, sleep or think....I don't care if I'm flat broke, in debt and running for my life, I don't care if I cause people.......pain.......oh gosh.....yeah....yeah I do care about that...........oh gosh.....oh no.....oh....gosh...no.......freak..............oh come on!!!!!!!! Whatever....I'll be back.....I just have to...to come to grips.....with...with all this....cause....I can't cause my brother from another mother pain...he's one of the few I care about and I know truly cares about me....my parents...bah...I don't really care....but him...no...not him.....my dear friend.....oh gosh

Do you feel that you have any purpose in life? i know you do but do you? This can cause this self worthlessness. That is what it is when you feel like you could just blipp off of the earth and no one would care.

I highly doubt it is true. You seek outside thrills - coasters- to elate you, cutting?? to make you feel-right? I am just trying to understand....is it a release - if so of WHAT? The pain of not being close to anyone...them not understanding 'YOU'?? Please explain...so we can try to understand and help you..or at least listen...and be hear for you...

JamieGraham · Feb 24, 2006

I have been to AA and in many cases they are very judgemental of others who struggle or fail...and yes they do not - on the whole - accept God and it is looked at as a 'personal' view. All though it is about God as that is the only way you can be forgiven and truley unleashed from that devlish addiction. This is my truth and opinion. Tjose who do ot believe in God tend to struggle quiter a bit more..they have an obsession of the mind - pre-occupied with drugs and alcohol...and the meetings can fuel that at times. Me - I just believe in the healing powers of our God and the forgiveness and love he provides me - this has kept me sober. In fact I do not ever think about it or miss it at all - unlike those I hear about in these meetings. When I even see a beer it looks like a stranger - a new drink a company has put out - I cannot even remmeber the feeling (good or bad) at all - Praise to God.

SOTK · Feb 24, 2006

Welcome to this thread, JamieGraham!

I'm glad you're here!

ArmouredSaint · Feb 24, 2006

Just making it in here to keep my mind off breaking the promise I have not to toke up or drink.Early morning and I'm fighting it once again.
God hear me for strength.

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