alcohol

[2Timothy2:15]

This is what i see as well......But if you read the posts of who i was replying to, you see that not all see it like this.

Agree, people see what they want to justify their flesh.

 

[RaymondG]

Agree, people see what they want to justify their flesh.

what is your take on this?

"
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

 

[RaymondG]

Again, both are left off before getting drunk. They are the same requirements.

BTW, in the case of the nazirite, they also could not eat grapes, or drink unfermented grape juice, or eat raisins, or (from oral tradition) even eat stuffed grape leaves.

what is your take on the following?:

"
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted."

Does this, to you, still mean that you can still drink up until the point of getting drunk

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Personally I have no issues if I have a drink. I used to be an excessive drinker and drug taker but now dont touch drugs and drink in moderation.

I tend to take the view that if you feel condemned or guilty when you drink you shouldn't have any. And if it leads you into son as it does with some people you should not have any.

If you can have a couple and it doesnt lead you into sin I have no problem with that. I have more of a problem with people smoking than I do with them drinking. All smokers are addicts but not all drinkers are.

 

[Archivist]

what is your take on the following?:

"
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted."

Does this, to you, still mean that you can still drink up until the point of getting drunk

But we know that the King of Kings drank wine. So did His disciples.

 

[Blade]

Josh.. this is between you can Christ. My brother GUILT does NOT EVER EVER EVER come from Christ. So get rid of that ok? If one asked me.... wine..beer.. between you and Him. A sin? No.. now the HARD stuff.. NEVER touch

So..if its never to get drunk..if no evil comes from it... praise GOD. Me? Never liked the taste..of any. Wife? She likes the taste. Drinks like those coolers?

 

[RaymondG]

But we know that the King of Kings drank wine. So did His disciples.

I drink a glass of wine almost every night. My points were that there are some offices where it states that wine should not be used, and others in which it is permitted.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

what is your take on this?

"
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

My take is the previous verses put into context.

4It is not for kings, Lemuel—

it is not for kings to drink wine,

not for rulers to crave beer,

5lest they drink and forget what has been decreed,

and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

The bible says that those without Jesus are perishing.....lost people

 

[friend of]

However I still feel guilty If I were to have a beer or two?

I feel the same. My heart condemns me. I feel it is sin, so I should not do it personally, as I had trouble with alcohol consumption in the not too distant past. It's a miracle that the Lord rescued me from drinking 'cos I sure couldn't have done it on my own.

To some people it is not a sin, but this is one of those gray areas as far as Christian freedom is concerned.

Romans 14:23

also Romans 14:13-14

The issue then becomes (why don't I have the faith to just drink a beer or two in moderation?)

Then there's Titus 1:15 which states "To the pure, all things are pure. but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted."

This scripture hits me harder because I certainly do believe... So why do I feel condemned in my heart? The solution is simply that God may not want me to do it, whereas He may not mind if someone else does it. We are all unique and God has special plans for each of us. As it turns out, even if I have 1 drink I actually embrace negative emotions and stew on them. I don't think God likes my heart to be filled with strong emotions like that, and so he makes my conscience heavy when had even a beer.

I haven't been drunk-drunk in a long time and It's been a long road coming to the reality that God doesn't want me even to have 1 drink. I'm tempted then to evny other's whom God does not put this coinscient wieght upon them and are allowed to imbibe, cus I sure like to drink a beer once in awhile. But no, not for me. It's not that I'm unbelieving or that I don't believe God will forgive me, he simply doesn't want that for me anymore. I've drank enough in His sight that He's done with that for me.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you want to chat more via PM. God bless you man

 

[Dave-W]

Does this, to you, still mean that you can still drink up until the point of getting drunk

Up to the point of your judgement being impaired, which may be before you are visibly drunk.

5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted."​

This is one of those places where the reason and effect are actually listed out for us.

 

[messianist]

We are called to Trust, repent and to be holly, if there is anything we are doing that takes our mind away from yashua then we are in error.

Whatever we do in our lives he will know our thoughts deeds and intentions behind what we are doing.

 

[vincentleo]

I have asked this before but I wanted to ask in a different forum.
After research I have noticed alcohol is not a sin, drunkeness is.

However I still feel guilty If I were to have a beer or two?

Would like some insight.
In the bible it says if we feel guilty its a sin to us.
I have been brought up my whole life alcohol is bad so maybe thats why i feel this way?

Also, maybe because the culture looks at alcohol as worldly and since things are viewed differently now, I wouldnt want someone to stumble and think im living in sin "only because alcohol is such a problem these days"



advice

Sin consists in something that is contrary to reason. It is not contrary to reason to drink something alcoholic when you know it will not cause you any harm (e.g, because you are only having one drink). A beer, a glass of wine, etc. But it is contrary to reason to drink alcohol to the point that it makes you incapable of thinking straight.

 

[devin553344]

I have asked this before but I wanted to ask in a different forum.
After research I have noticed alcohol is not a sin, drunkeness is.

However I still feel guilty If I were to have a beer or two?

Would like some insight.
In the bible it says if we feel guilty its a sin to us.
I have been brought up my whole life alcohol is bad so maybe thats why i feel this way?

Also, maybe because the culture looks at alcohol as worldly and since things are viewed differently now, I wouldnt want someone to stumble and think im living in sin "only because alcohol is such a problem these days"



advice

I don't believe feeling guilty is not an indication of sin. For instance one can feel guilty for extending boundaries with other people. Healthy boundaries no less. People often use guilt conditioning to manipulate and get what they want from others too.

 

[JoshFL]

I think you need to figure out first why this bothers you so much

Because nowadays it as seen as worldly and not considered christian behavior in the eyes of the world.
So I feel it could hinder my witness and throw a bad message. Thats why I feel guilty.

 

[Archivist]

Because nowadays it as seen as worldly and not considered christian behavior in the eyes of the world.
So I feel it could hinder my witness and throw a bad message. Thats why I feel guilty.

In the majority of Christian churches wine is used for Holy Communion, so how is it “worldly” and not “Christian behavior” to consume it?

 

[Tom 1]

Because nowadays it as seen as worldly and not considered christian behavior in the eyes of the world.
So I feel it could hinder my witness and throw a bad message. Thats why I feel guilty.

To be honest I think maybe you’re taking that idea a bit too far. I mean if you get drunk then of course no one is going to take you seriously, but a beer won’t get you drunk. If it really bothers you then maybe you shouldn’t drink but I don’t think it’s an issue in itself. Reflecting on this might help -
“Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise— why destroy yourself?”

Ecclesiastes 7:16 NIV

 

[JoshFL]

In the majority of Christian churches wine is used for Holy Communion, so how is it “worldly” and not “Christian behavior” to consume it?

Because of how much alcohol is an issue in our society. I just said majority of the world doesnt view it as christian behavior.

 

[Archivist]

Because of how much alcohol is an issue in our society. I just said majority of the world doesnt view it as christian behavior.

But a majority of Christians do view the consumption of alcohol as Christian behavior because it is consumed as part of Holy Communion, a sacrament. Further, I haven't seen any proof in this post that a "majority of the world" doesn't view the consumption of alcohol as christian behavior. Again, I am not in any way suggesting that they abuse of alcohol is alright.

 

[Galilee63]

Just only drink one over a meal if you are able in order for alcohol not to dull your brain/thinking/senses for your heart/soul/mind to receive Jesus into your heart and in Holy Unity with our Lord Jesus more clearly.

Gluttony is a sin and that applies to food, alcohol, cigarettes, purchases, wants, luxuries, material things, activities of pleasure, leisure time activities, sporting activities and the social side after the games, for instance, spending too much time on one thing instead of praying and talking to our Lord Jesus and Adoring Him, visiting Jesus at His Holy Altars, Adoring Him in His Blessed Holy Sacrament, receiving our Lord in His Blessed Sacraments and spending time with Jesus one on ONE. Jesus awaits all hearts/souls turning to Him in complete trust.

Gluttony is consuming many sweets, fruits, things in the one go instead of balancing them out over the course of a week.

Wasting money, purchasing coffees when we can make a coffee instead of wasting money purchasing these. Purchasing many materialistic items just to make a home look great to self family friends visitors.

Nice to be clean and tidy and self disciplined without clutter yet a sin to spend too much time on one thing/dwelling instead of spending our time with our Lord Jesus focussing on Jesus and His Life and Bitter Passion.

Instead be giving to someone on the street whom is struggling to eat daily or send donations to India to Children in Orphanages or to Africa - Children in Orphanages or Care. It is more about the sin of Gluttony and storing up our Treasures for Heaven on our Souls. For every sacrifice including holidays not taken instead offering up to our Lord Jesus Prayer and works of mercy for all of the Holy Souls in Purgatory, our Lord Jesus Christ has told His Holy Saints and with Holy Mother Mary, that we store up our Treasures for Heaven with many Prayers prayed for others, many works of mercy and in particular from our hearts, even a smile or Blessing people from our hearts in our minds as we pass them with the Sign of The Cross Jesus says to do; these are works of Mercy that are displayed on our souls during judgement and if we have an opportunity for The Golden Scales in Heaven to be brought out by Holy Mother Mary in Jesus for God to see how many works of mercy, how many things/sacrifices of earthly were made offered up to Jesus, then one will be grateful they did not over imbibe and gave up all of the other beers and/or alcohol during life here.

Every thing matters and is judged by Jesus God The Most High our Heavenly Divine Majesty, every thought, every word, every action, every non action of Mercy and goodness and kindness when we have ignored and walked on by not assisting others.