Alcohol isn't sinful.

[Almost there]

Thank you for the share brother!

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that you guys had to go through that. I appreciate you sharing the phrase involving the weaker brothers though, for sure! I'm going to have to look into this phrase, I can definitely see where it could come from for sure!

Gluttony is one I struggle with. I'm in shape, but still. It's no excuse. I desire, and feel I'm called to a diet of fruits, veggies, grains and nuts. My problem is that I love sugar too much :x I don't mind meats, but I feel I should limit my intake of them because of how hard it is to find meats not loaded with so many carcinogens and medicines and steroids, etc. That and the meats that aren't are insanely expensive.

We split a beef cow with a friend.

And I'm not really judging their gluttony. Rather, it is the obvious "plank in the eye" syndrome. I just wish we could all just lighten up and learn from Ecclesiastes.

 

[StevenBelievin]

When we moved to Kentucky from Seattle, we went to a very nice little baptist church within a mile of our home in the sticks. Good people, nice pastor, etc. We had to leave because they had some very dogmatic views and I did not want to be guilty of "sowing discord". The last straw was when we had a sunday school class about alcohol being wrong no matter what. Every single proof text used from the bible talked about being drunk, and the tired old canard about "the wine was really grape juice" was used anywhere where it seemed to be discussed as positive. I just couldn't hurt my "weaker brothers" beyond a couple of anemic attempts to help them consider the opposite position.

Years later, I learned the phrase, "The tyranny of the weaker brother". I think that is interesting because now that we all have bibles that we can read, there should be no "weaker brothers" left.

BTW, there was a lot of obesity in that church, but they didn't preach much on gluttony.

My, that's interesting. I was just thinking the other day about how America is supposed to be one of the most obese countries on earth, and I don't think I have ever heard a sermon on gluttony... Ever.. Isn't it supposed to be one of the seven deadly sins from the OT? Hmmmmmm....

Don't get me wrong. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but it is interesting that people like to pick and choose what they believe is taboo buffet style.. Pun intended..

 

[Monna]

When we moved to Kentucky from Seattle, we went to a very nice little baptist church within a mile of our home in the sticks. Good people, nice pastor, etc. We had to leave because they had some very dogmatic views and I did not want to be guilty of "sowing discord".

I once got into serious trouble teaching in a church that alcohol is not sinful in itself. The reason was that many of the people in that church had been saved out of a life of alcoholism - and for them the substance was the cause of all their problems. To them it was the embodiment of the devil. Anyone condoning its consumption was submitting to the devil.

I did not change my view, but I did stop insisting. There are many reasons other than alcohol to practice self-control, and considering what James said, the biggest target of our self-control should probably be our tongues.

I didn't have the option to find another church - there wasn't one. And these people, though hostile to my view, continued to receive me graciously.

 

[Little Lantern]

BTW, there was a lot of obesity in that church, but they didn't preach much on gluttony.

Sounds like the 'ole plank and splinter analogy, doesn't it?

 

[Almost there]

My, that's interesting. I was just thinking the other day about how America is supposed to be one of the most obese countries on earth, and I don't think I have ever heard a sermon on gluttony... Ever.. Isn't it supposed to be one of the seven deadly sins from the OT? Hmmmmmm....

Don't get me wrong. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but it is interesting that people like to pick and choose what they believe is taboo buffet style.. Pun intended..

I remember reading a verse about "smooth skinned people" in the bible somewhere and wondered what it meant. This is only speculation, but a country of obese people would definitely be "smooth skinned".

 

[Monna]

Years later, I learned the phrase, "The tyranny of the weaker brother". I think that is interesting because now that we all have bibles that we can read, there should be no "weaker brothers" left.

Yeah, it's an interesting phrase and concept. I wonder what Jesus would make of it, since he was not only subject to the "weak" all the way to death, but also had/has to put up with the "weaker brothers" and in many cases has had the ingenuity of working through them! He loves them too.

We all probably have our own weaknesses, none of which we would consider such. ;-)

 

[Almost there]

I once got into serious trouble teaching in a church that alcohol is not sinful in itself. The reason was that many of the people in that church had been saved out of a life of alcoholism - and for them the substance was the cause of all their problems. To them it was the embodiment of the devil. Anyone condoning its consumption was submitting to the devil.

I did not change my view, but I did stop insisting. There are many reasons other than alcohol to practice self-control, and considering what James said, the biggest target of our self-control should probably be our tongues.

I didn't have the option to find another church - there wasn't one. And these people, though hostile to my view, continued to receive me graciously.

Interesting. They liked us at our church too, but I knew that, like Roger Rabbit finishing off "shave and a haircut", I would not be able to remain silent. I had to go. Fortunately, they hand out churches around here like free breath mints.

BTW. wipe that smile off your face!

 

[Almost there]

Yeah, it's an interesting phrase and concept. I wonder what Jesus would make of it, since he was not only subject to the "weak" all the way to death, but also had/has to put up with the "weaker brothers" and in many cases has had the ingenuity of working through them! He loves them too.

We all probably have our own weaknesses, none of which we would consider such. ;-)

It truly is easier to see in others than yourself. I once heard a man say that every person alive has picked out one person that, no matter what they do, they will always find excuses for anything that person does, no matter how evil. They will always "love them" no matter what they do. Literally.

That person is yourself.

 

[Monna]

BTW. wipe that smile off your face!

Guess where it came from?
Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

 

[fat wee robin]

When we moved to Kentucky from Seattle, we went to a very nice little baptist church within a mile of our home in the sticks. Good people, nice pastor, etc. We had to leave because they had some very dogmatic views and I did not want to be guilty of "sowing discord". The last straw was when we had a sunday school class about alcohol being wrong no matter what. Every single proof text used from the bible talked about being drunk, and the tired old canard about "the wine was really grape juice" was used anywhere where it seemed to be discussed as positive. I just couldn't hurt my "weaker brothers" beyond a couple of anemic attempts to help them consider the opposite position.

Years later, I learned the phrase, "The tyranny of the weaker brother". I think that is interesting because now that we all have bibles that we can read, there should be no "weaker brothers" left.

BTW, there was a lot of obesity in that church, but they didn't preach much on gluttony.

Tell the Italians ,the French and the Spanish alcohol is bad ,and thye will tell you correctly that a smal regular glass of red wine or good whisky allows you to live longer and makes for a happier society .America and Scotland had the worst problems because in the First case hey banned it completely and in the second you had the Temperence movement .Miserable people love to make everyone the same , when they have to give up their addictions everyone must . America had the prohibition laws and look what happened there , Al Capone etc.

 

[discipler7]

There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

.
LEVITICUS.10: =
Conduct Prescribed for Priests
8 Then the Lord spoke to Aaron, saying: 9 “Do not drink wine or intoxicating drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, 10 that you may distinguish between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean, 11 and that you may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the Lord has spoken to them by the hand of Moses.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Alcohol and any intoxicating or psychotropic stuffs/drugs may cause addiction after long term abuse, ie excessive daily use for more than a month = alters the brain = brain damage. Hence, we have "bad/evil" alcoholics, chain-smokers, drug addicts and the opioid crisis in USA.
... Occasional or social drinking of alcohol and drug consumption does not cause addiction or dependency.(referred to by DEUT.14:26.?)

Once addicted or dependent on these psychotropic drugs, the addicts should remain on a daily maintenance dose, so as to avoid suffering the horrible effects of withdrawal symptoms, eg Delirium Tremens for alcoholics = anxiety, insomnia, paranoia, hallucination, muscle spasm, etc. It's more life-threatening for drug addicts to skip taking the drugs or go teetotal/cold turkey.
... Drug addicts and alcoholics with already-damaged brains are similar to Type 2 diabetics with damaged pancreas who are "addicted" to artificial insulin to survive.

The government should legalize psychotropic drugs = will result in reduced prices, instead of criminalizing them and over-taxing cigarettes and alcohol.

Also, long term use of these psychotropic drugs will damage the livers and/or kidneys, ie after about 20 to 30 years.

So, best for Christians to avoid alcohol, nicotine, caffeine and other intoxicating/psychotropic drugs if they can, eg if a chain-smoker or alcoholic or drug-addict becomes a new Gentile Christian, he/she should remain as he/she is, as per ACTS.15:24-29, similar to them not needed to be circumcised.

 

[Anguspure]

It seems from what I understand that we're to stay away from things that alter our mind in a way that keeps us from using sound judgement. Alcohol often does that, which is why the police are kept so busy after bar closing time, and why drinking and driving is a problem. Of course, it can be used responsibly as well. The fact that so many people abuse it is what gives it a bad reputation.

On the other hand Alchohol has the effect of revealing the truth about the mind and the heart, something that all of the people who keep the Police busy and many others should keep well inhibited for the sake of civilised society.
I have a number of friends who can't drink whisky, in particular, for this reason. When they do they reveal a very unpleasant side of themselves.

In my experience the effect of alchohol seems to reflect the atmosphere in which one has consumed it at first.
For example I emotionally associate wine and whisky with my Mothers household that in general was pleasant and intellectual, if at times loud and rambuctious. So when I drink these beverages I am taken into this sort of mood.

 

[salt-n-light]

Alcohol. I don't condemn it, but everything have consequences, surfaced or unsurfaced, obvious or not obvious. Everyone still have the responsibility at the end of the day to personally talk with God about it, and adhere to how He wants them to deal with it. Just take heed that drunkards can't inherent the kingdom of God and that we are called to be sober-minded, physically and spiritually. So I guess we can start from there.

1 Corinthians 6 came to mind reading the post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

Right off the bat, in the Torah ( which means both: the first five books of the bible, and the instructions given by God)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The words "wine", and for "strong drink" both come from the hebrew words
for wine: " יַיִן " - which means "wine"
and strong drink: " שֵׁכָר " - which means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, or intoxicating liquor."

So right off the bat, if someone tells you that alcohol is sinful - if that were true. Then God Himself, right here in Deuteronomy would be guilty of sinning, because for the feast of Sukkot, one of His Holy Days, He approves of people buying and drinking intoxicating beverages.

Does this mean that we should be drunk, habitually? No. You can easily drink whiskey or vodka, or wine without getting drunk - let alone without getting drunk habitually. It's just going to take self-control. Judge how much you can drink, pay attention to how you feel, and enjoy it, without going over board. Stop when you think you should stop, but be honest with yourself. And don't make a habit of it, that's all He asks. That, and love someone enough to not drink in front of them if you know they struggle with it. But, don't put man-made laws and restrictions on it, banning the use of it. It's unbiblical, and it's accepted by God Himself. Bad things happen in the bible when people get drunk, yes, but that's why you don't get drunk. Use self-control, and caution.

Much love, God bless you my brothers and sisters.

First of all, Deuteronomy 14:26 was given to Israel and not to the church. Yes, "God's Eternal Moral Laws" have remained unchanged (since the "Fall of Adam" like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) but we have to be able to rightly divide the Word of truth in what applies and what does not apply to us Christians today. Deuteronomy 14:1-2 deals with copying pagan customs like cutting yourself and shaving bald spots on your head for the dead (Which I believe still applies today because 3 John 1:11 says we are not to imitate evil but we are to imitate that which is good). Deuteronomy 14:3-21 deals with the laws to Israel on clean and unclean foods (Which no longer applies to the believer under the New Covenant because God told Peter to eat unclean animals - See Acts of the Apostles 10:9-16). Deuteronomy 14:22-29 deals with tithes involving worship. So the feast in Deuteronomy 14:26 is a celebration of worshiping God and in tithing. So it is not just a party.

Second, Deuteronomy 14:26 is in reference to the purchasing of these items and it is not in reference to the immediate ingestion of these things. It says, "And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after,." (Deuteronomy 14:26). This is important to understand because they bought wine and strong drink whereby they would have diluted it with water so as to be drinkable. How so?

Well, the Bible mentions that there are three types of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses (Wine Type #2):

Revelation 14:10 says,
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." (cf. Psalms 75:8).

1 Timothy 5:23 (NASB) says,
"No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

Proverbs 9:2 (NLT) says,
"She has prepared a great banquet, mixed the wines, and set the table."

Proverbs 23:31 - "Do not look at wine when it is red."

John 19:34 (Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood - See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 NIV says,
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”​

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.​

Three, if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).

So it looks like they did not drink of wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy. They did this as a part of showing that they might know the Lord their God. So I am sorry to inform you that Deuteronomy 14:26 is not a license for you to think that alcoholic beverages is this great gift from God. That would be ignoring the context and the rest of the Bible.

Now, it is true, the New Testament saint can drink alcoholic beverages and it is not a sin; But what is lawful is not always profitable. For example: It may be lawful for you to walk through a pit of spitting cobras but it is not profitable. However, the OT saint did not have the same liberty in Christ that we do today. The Israelites had many restrictions we did not have (like do not eat unclean animals, etc.).

But let's not act like alcohol is this super amazing thing. That would be silly. Moderately strong alcohol has no nutrition labels on them because it has no nutrition. It is technically a poison or a drug because...

"The long-term use of alcohol is capable of damaging nearly every organ and system in the body. Health effects associated with alcohol intake in large amounts include an increased risk of alcoholism, malnutrition, chronic pancreatitis, alcoholic liver disease, and cancer. In addition, damage to the central nervous system and peripheral nervous system can occur from chronic alcohol abuse."​

Source:
Long-term effects of alcohol consumption - Wikipedia

Jesus said you will know a tree by it's fruit. Lets check the fruits of alcohol.

(CDC) 100,000 people die each year from alcohol-related causes: drinking and driving crashes, other accidents, falls, fires, alcohol-related homicides and suicides. (NCAAD) Of the 3.9 million Americans who received treatment for a substance abuse problem in 2005, 2.5 million of them were treated for alcohol use.

God's gift to man? If you say so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, if you were to put alcohol in a glass and then put a dirty penny in it, the alcohol would clean the penny. If you put a piece of meat in the glass of alcohol, it would dry out the meat. Now, the alcohol does not know the difference of being inside your body or outside your body. It is going to attack your insides just like it does the penny and the piece of meat. Your body's immune system has to fight against it. It is not something nutritional that is going to give you nutrients like an egg, or a tomato, or a cup of freshly squeezed grape juice (i.e. unfermented wine). Think about that the next time you take a sip of what you believe to be God's gift. Think about how it is eating your insides like it does with the dirt on the penny.

 

[Alittlereality]

First off my take man penned the bible in interpretation of their time and view of what life taught them about a preconceived notion of god. Saying "god said it" when quoting the bible is an interpretational error.
Second i drink. I smoke. Ive used other things in the past.
Scientists excavating found cannabis and opium in vases used for early babtisms in the region christ lived.
We need to be careful because hell is a concept.
Religion to me is what jesus warned against saying his true church or congregation was yet to come.
Also many people now say the bible is not the same. All historical and modern texts changed. Frankly to me the bible is more dirty and just wierd.
You may find what shes reading is offensive..but its in the bible and shes as shocked as me.

 

[Anguspure]

First off my take man penned the bible in interpretation of their time and view of what life taught them about a preconceived notion of god. Saying "god said it" when quoting the bible is an interpretational error.
Second i drink. I smoke. Ive used other things in the past.
Scientists excavating found cannabis and opium in vases used for early babtisms in the region christ lived.
We need to be careful because hell is a concept.
Religion to me is what jesus warned against saying his true church or congregation was yet to come.
Also many people now say the bible is not the same. All historical and modern texts changed. Frankly to me the bible is more dirty and just wierd.
You may find what shes reading is offensive..but its in the bible and shes as shocked as me.

The Rabbis lower their voices to a whisper so that the congregation cannot hear when they read certain parts of the Bible.
Just goes to supply more evidence that the books are candid and unaltered material or the Religous would have removed most of this stuff a long time ago.

 

[salt-n-light]

First off my take man penned the bible in interpretation of their time and view of what life taught them about a preconceived notion of god. Saying "god said it" when quoting the bible is an interpretational error.
Second i drink. I smoke. Ive used other things in the past.
Scientists excavating found cannabis and opium in vases used for early babtisms in the region christ lived.
We need to be careful because hell is a concept.
Religion to me is what jesus warned against saying his true church or congregation was yet to come.
Also many people now say the bible is not the same. All historical and modern texts changed. Frankly to me the bible is more dirty and just wierd.
You may find what shes reading is offensive..but its in the bible and shes as shocked as me.

The Word isn't a book for fantasy lovers to go and swoon over how magical Jesus is with confetti and balloons. The Word contains accounts of people, events, and laws and God's message and gospel to us as humans. People kill. People lust. People give and steal. There's wars and kingdoms. There's politics and laws. Stuff went down. Its reality. Reality ain't always nice and pretty. Decisions had to be made, and actions had to be done.

Because Hell is not a conceptual place. The spiritual realm isn't a made up idea. And spirits aren't just things in some random fictional book. The Word is raw, it is alive, and it deals with the very essence of our existence, both physically and spiritually. Just because people are in shock and offended by it, doesn't make it less of truth, and doesn't make it more wise to ignore it or dismiss it because it makes us squirm.

The girl in the vid finally woke up for her slumber a little bit. I hope she doesn't try to fall back asleep. And maybe try the KJV. The newer versions have their agendas.

 

[Alittlereality]

Ok heres a thing that relates to my experience. I used a bible code program to search if im in the code because i hear voices. I searched "ryan voices" that searched came up in multiple books.
Years later someone did a search for "mandela effect". What came up was "two demons, up/down, mandela" and more i cant remember. In 2010ish i heard two demons say they were building a paradox machine. I would mock my abuser voice by saying "up and down, right?" It would reply "exactly".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

First off my take man penned the bible in interpretation of their time and view of what life taught them about a preconceived notion of god.

No. That is not true.

See this blog article I created here:

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

If you were to seriously take the time to look through the evidences, you will be absolutely without excuse that God's Word is divine and perfect.

Saying "god said it" when quoting the bible is an interpretational error.

Again, not true. You would not care to say this if we were talking about some other holy book. The Bible is clearly the Word of God and you know that fact deep down, otherwise you would not seek to undermine it or attack it.

Second i drink. I smoke. Ive used other things in the past.

The Bible says that getting drunk is wrong. Alcohol slowly can kill your body over time; Especially if you abuse it. Cigarettes can destroy your life quickly if you are not careful. Both of these are drugs and they are addictive and costly. You can harm yourself and harm others with these drugs. So if you don't care about yourself or others, then you will not care to stop in doing these things.

Scientists excavating found cannabis and opium in vases used for early babtisms in the region christ lived.

Don't believe everything you hear. Trust in God and His Word.

We need to be careful because hell is a concept.

No. Hell is real and it is described within His Word. Granted, it is not a torture chamber in flames that will burn your flesh like a steak or anything but it is not a place you want to be.

Religion to me is what jesus warned against saying his true church or congregation was yet to come.

What Scripture says that? Or are you receiving some kind of other revelation?
Do not be deceived. The Bible warns against following another Jesus.

Also many people now say the bible is not the same. All historical and modern texts changed.

No. The Bible we have today matches up with the Dead Sea Scrolls (Which was a discovery several decades ago).

Frankly to me the bible is more dirty and just wierd.

That is because you have been convinced by some false author who chooses to look at the bad side of the Bible instead of the good within it. The Bible records things that are in real life sometimes. It records men's sins to point how we need a Savior (Jesus Christ) who can save us from our sins.

You may find what shes reading is offensive..but its in the bible and shes as shocked as me.

The Bible is about life. It records the evil of men's sins. It shows you the depravity of man that points for the need of a Savior. For you have to realize God created sex. He created body parts. Sex is good if it is within the bounds of marriage. But sometimes people do not follow God's plan (which is what the Bible describes sometimes). The majority of the Bible is not written like a inappropriate content novel. There are only occasional references of certain things that describe the evilness of mankind. The majority of God's Word is chocked full of wisdom, truth, and commands that will lead you all the more deeper into a relationship with God. Try reading the New Testament for a change. However, if your goal is to find a problem with God's Word, then that is what you will see. But if you believe God's Word by faith, it will change you in ways you never thought possible.