Alcohol isn't sinful.

Devin P

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There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

Right off the bat, in the Torah ( which means both: the first five books of the bible, and the instructions given by God)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The words "wine", and for "strong drink" both come from the hebrew words
for wine: " יַיִן " - which means "wine"
and strong drink: " שֵׁכָר " - which means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, or intoxicating liquor."

So right off the bat, if someone tells you that alcohol is sinful - if that were true. Then God Himself, right here in Deuteronomy would be guilty of sinning, because for the feast of Sukkot, one of His Holy Days, He approves of people buying and drinking intoxicating beverages.

Does this mean that we should be drunk, habitually? No. You can easily drink whiskey or vodka, or wine without getting drunk - let alone without getting drunk habitually. It's just going to take self-control. Judge how much you can drink, pay attention to how you feel, and enjoy it, without going over board. Stop when you think you should stop, but be honest with yourself. And don't make a habit of it, that's all He asks. That, and love someone enough to not drink in front of them if you know they struggle with it. But, don't put man-made laws and restrictions on it, banning the use of it. It's unbiblical, and it's accepted by God Himself. Bad things happen in the bible when people get drunk, yes, but that's why you don't get drunk. Use self-control, and caution.

Much love, God bless you my brothers and sisters.
 

christianforumsuser

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People call anything they call unclean, because they say so out of context. Misunderstanding why culture and tradition got this way
Why is alcohol bad? Nobody knows. Just more theories and someone complaining that maybe it should be good...or suffering for lack of knowledge

Is it unclean because they don't understand or not understand because it is unclean...
But man wasn't meant to be bound by laws without knowledge was he?
Don't look, taste, touch.
My fleshly dad doesn't drink and says it affects inhibition. But then what does that imply, calling oneself good and lawful as long as you don't go near what's bad....to you and your culture

I get stress and being around uppity people who act excited and self-righteous makes food taste bad and my joints ache
I can't stand being there without some booze (I'm not a drinker, it's an example)

People act opposite when they go home or in society
Being around some people they yell because they like acting right with power
Some go around causing mischief or trolling. People pretend to fit in
 
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Aldebaran

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People call anything they call unclean, because they say so out of context. Misunderstanding why culture and tradition got this way
Why is alcohol bad? Nobody knows. Just more theories and someone complaining that maybe it should be good...or suffering for lack of knowledge

Is it unclean because they don't understand or not understand because it is unclean...
But man wasn't meant to be bound by laws without knowledge was he?
Don't look, taste, touch.
My fleshly dad doesn't drink and says it affects inhibition. But then what does that imply, calling oneself good and lawful as long as you don't go near what's bad....to you and your culture

It seems from what I understand that we're to stay away from things that alter our mind in a way that keeps us from using sound judgement. Alcohol often does that, which is why the police are kept so busy after bar closing time, and why drinking and driving is a problem. Of course, it can be used responsibly as well. The fact that so many people abuse it is what gives it a bad reputation.
 
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christianforumsuser

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It seems from what I understand that we're to stay away from things that alter our mind in a way that keeps us from using sound judgement. Alcohol often does that, which is why the police are kept so busy after bar closing time, and why drinking and driving is a problem. Of course, it can be used responsibly as well. The fact that so many people abuse it is what gives it a bad reputation.
Some substances like cannabis are illegal and have a couple different sorts of culture groups and individuals
People themselves are probably loony people and use the substance only letting out that
But I've been around arrogant people who get high on their environment because they get excited by something
So while people point at drugs as being bad and say they don't do the drug...they themselves actually get "high"

Is it bad to break a law or be disobedient? Yes
Do you obey and do everything everyone tells you to do...and even if you did where would you end up..if the law doesn't feed but seems to starve and kill
It doesn't protect you...law enforcement sides with those in power...assuming men are so good and wise

Why do some frown on alcohol or other substances...either because they don't do them or don't do them because? Who knows. It is how it is
Does anyone care to actually improve? Most like sinning. If you offered them even more of something they wanted such as money they'd go for it
But what's sinful but that greed? If not one sin and boast...then another
People won't learn

It's not as much about carnal law. But of course respect/honor some people and maybe obey their culture to an extent
But you'd go elsewhere and follow another sort of culture. The same man in different place
 
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Almost there

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When we moved to Kentucky from Seattle, we went to a very nice little baptist church within a mile of our home in the sticks. Good people, nice pastor, etc. We had to leave because they had some very dogmatic views and I did not want to be guilty of "sowing discord". The last straw was when we had a sunday school class about alcohol being wrong no matter what. Every single proof text used from the bible talked about being drunk, and the tired old canard about "the wine was really grape juice" was used anywhere where it seemed to be discussed as positive. I just couldn't hurt my "weaker brothers" beyond a couple of anemic attempts to help them consider the opposite position.

Years later, I learned the phrase, "The tyranny of the weaker brother". I think that is interesting because now that we all have bibles that we can read, there should be no "weaker brothers" left.

BTW, there was a lot of obesity in that church, but they didn't preach much on gluttony.
 
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Aldebaran

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Some substances like cannabis are illegal and have a couple different sorts of culture groups and individuals
People themselves are probably loony people and use the substance only letting out that
But I've been around arrogant people who get high on their environment because they get excited by something
So while people point at drugs as being bad and say they don't do the drug...they themselves actually get "high"

Is it bad to break a law or be disobedient? Yes
Do you obey and do everything everyone tells you to do...and even if you did where would you end up..if the law doesn't feed but seems to starve and kill
It doesn't protect you...law enforcement sides with those in power...assuming men are so good and wise

Why do some frown on alcohol or other substances...either because they don't do them or don't do them because? Who knows. It is how it is
Does anyone care to actually improve? Most like sinning. If you offered them even more of something they wanted such as money they'd go for it
But what's sinful but that greed? If not one sin and boast...then another
People won't learn

The people who don't use alcohol or drugs don't do so because they see the harm those things have caused in others. Personally, I use neither based on that. Even if illegal drugs were legalized as alcohol is now, I still wouldn't use them.
 
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christianforumsuser

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The people who don't use alcohol or drugs don't do so because they see the harm those things have caused in others. Personally, I use neither based on that. Even if illegal drugs were legalized as alcohol is now, I still wouldn't use them.
I don't know how the substances work.
Of course for someone who has self-control problems and is around opportunity and temptation...having a party with someone alone of the opposite sex or whatever might, with alcohol, be a recipe for adultery/fornication or whatever

Alcohol is alcohol. A man is a man. Sin is sin. Are there different kinds...it's so complex
I'm not saying that implying an abstract awe to be left in ignorant bliss
I want answers and solutions. I don't like suffering in lack of knowledge and being in sin and malice and confusion
I don't know how substances affect me and aren't so interested in the world I suppose
 
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Almost there

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The people who don't use alcohol or drugs don't do so because they see the harm those things have caused in others. Personally, I use neither based on that. Even if illegal drugs were legalized as alcohol is now, I still wouldn't use them.
My wife never used marijuana and I quit using it in 1977. However, she now uses a cannabis extract we picked up in Washington state that is quite amazing. It has no THC and she takes two drops from an eyedropper before bed and sleeps like a baby. She's had insomnia issues for a very long time.
 
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Aldebaran

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I don't know how the substances work.
Of course for someone who has self-control problems and is around opportunity and temptation...having a party with someone alone of the opposite sex or whatever might, with alcohol, be a recipe for adultery/fornication or whatever

Alcohol is alcohol. A man is a man. Sin is sin. Are there different kinds...it's so complex
I'm not saying that implying an abstract awe to be left in ignorant bliss
I want answers and solutions. I don't like suffering in lack of knowledge and being in sin and malice and confusion
I don't know how substances affect me and aren't so interested in the world I suppose

As an individual, you have to evaluate yourself and see where your strengths are. For example, if you are prone to lust after a person of the opposite sex and be driven by that, then it would probably not be wise to be alone with that person. If you're not, then it wouldn't be as much of a temptation or problem. Just like with alcohol: If you're a recovering alcoholic and even the sight or smell of it gives you an irresistible craving for it, it's probably best to stay away from bars. I myself have never had a desire to drink, so being in a bar means nothing to me. But then again, I have other weaknesses others may not have, and have to adjust my actions and whereabouts accordingly.
 
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Aldebaran

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My wife never used marijuana and I quit using it in 1977. However, she now uses a cannabis extract we picked up in Washington state that is quite amazing. It has no THC and she takes two drops from an eyedropper before bed and sleeps like a baby. She's had insomnia issues for a very long time.

There's no doubt that some drugs have medicinal purposes that are quite useful. Even the worst of the illegal ones were developed for some type of need at the time. I think they all have their place. Some are probably more easily abused than others. Much of that depends upon the level of addictiveness they have.
 
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christianforumsuser

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As an individual, you have to evaluate yourself and see where your strengths are. For example, if you are prone to lust after a person of the opposite sex and be driven by that, then it would probably not be wise to be alone with that person. If you're not, then it wouldn't be as much of a temptation or problem. Just like with alcohol: If you're a recovering alcoholic and even the sight or smell of it gives you an irresistible craving for it, it's probably best to stay away from bars. I myself have never had a desire to drink, so being in a bar means nothing to me. But then again, I have other weaknesses others may not have, and have to adjust my actions and whereabouts accordingly.
Some people are addicted to their salary they're used to...my fleshly dad turned down a job that arguably offered more than enough money. Now I could debate intentions and of course he'd have an excuse and lies and I'd be only left with....well some people really seem sure of it and won't take no for an answer.
See, those might be useful traits for righteous use...Not stubbornness...but holding firmly to what you believe if it's right

So if you're right...and use things for good...good
But lots of people use that guise and are so convinced they're holy and good..while their acts and faith are lacking
What use is avoiding alcohol? A wicked man is a wicked man..with or without alcohol

Edit: Maybe I should only say nice or neutral things. But the examples of my experience are with people I've resided with. I could skip names, but why bother. I do them more honor by not lying. But that's up for cultural debate. But lying is bad... I can't say what I said isn't true but I could skip naming who
But down that rabbit hole, sooner or later anything I say about people good or bad might come up, unless saying it unbiased neutral.
 
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Lucian Hodoboc

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Alcohol in moderation is not sinful. Abusing alcohol to the point in which it controls your life, makes you stumble into various sins, and prevents you from doing God's Will is sinful.
 
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disciple1

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There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

Right off the bat, in the Torah ( which means both: the first five books of the bible, and the instructions given by God)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The words "wine", and for "strong drink" both come from the hebrew words
for wine: " יַיִן " - which means "wine"
and strong drink: " שֵׁכָר " - which means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, or intoxicating liquor."

So right off the bat, if someone tells you that alcohol is sinful - if that were true. Then God Himself, right here in Deuteronomy would be guilty of sinning, because for the feast of Sukkot, one of His Holy Days, He approves of people buying and drinking intoxicating beverages.

Does this mean that we should be drunk, habitually? No. You can easily drink whiskey or vodka, or wine without getting drunk - let alone without getting drunk habitually. It's just going to take self-control. Judge how much you can drink, pay attention to how you feel, and enjoy it, without going over board. Stop when you think you should stop, but be honest with yourself. And don't make a habit of it, that's all He asks. That, and love someone enough to not drink in front of them if you know they struggle with it. But, don't put man-made laws and restrictions on it, banning the use of it. It's unbiblical, and it's accepted by God Himself. Bad things happen in the bible when people get drunk, yes, but that's why you don't get drunk. Use self-control, and caution.

Much love, God bless you my brothers and sisters.
I've also heard, the older you are at your first drink the safer you are, my father gave me a beer when I was 11 years old.
And if people in your immediate family have trouble with it mother or father, you probably have an 80 percent chance of having the same problem.
 
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Some people are addicted to their salary they're used to...my fleshly dad turned down a job that arguably offered more than enough money. Now I could debate intentions and of course he'd have an excuse and lies and I'd be only left with....well some people really seem sure of it and won't take no for an answer.
See, those might be useful traits for righteous use...Not stubbornness...but holding firmly to what you believe if it's right

So if you're right...and use things for good...good
But lots of people use that guise and are so convinced they're holy and good..while their acts and faith are lacking
What use is avoiding alcohol? A wicked man is a wicked man..with or without alcohol

Edit: Maybe I should only say nice or neutral things. But the examples of my experience are with people I've resided with. I could skip names, but why bother. I do them more honor by not lying. But that's up for cultural debate. But lying is bad... I can't say what I said isn't true but I could skip naming who

It's true that things other than alcohol and drugs can make people do bad things. Money, power, anger issues, sexual lust, just to name a few. But I would say that if we have problems with those things that we should throw alcohol and drugs into the mix. That would only multiply the problems. But we should work on our weaknesses, whichever ones they might be.
 
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Almost there

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There's no doubt that some drugs have medicinal purposes that are quite useful. Even the worst of the illegal ones were developed for some type of need at the time. I think they all have their place. Some are probably more easily abused than others. Much of that depends upon the level of addictiveness they have.
I agree. I have to confess that after the results my cancer survivor friend, my wife, and a few other acquaintances have had using various marijuana extracts have had with the plant, that I'm beginning to believe there may be truth to the conspiracy theories regarding big pharma and the AMA regarding Marijuana.

Make of this what you will:

 
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christianforumsuser

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It's true that things other than alcohol and drugs can make people do bad things. Money, power, anger issues, sexual lust, just to name a few. But I would say that if we have problems with those things that we should throw alcohol and drugs into the mix. That would only multiply the problems. But we should work on our weaknesses, whichever ones they might be.
Being around sinners makes me act sinful
But whether in friendly fun or arguments...someone is getting hurt...because both sides war or people have fun at someone else's expense

Anyone can say "I wouldn't get angry if I weren't around people who tick me off"
People learn from carnal parents who are hypocrites who hit you for being ignorant or weak...and they don't lead by example to listen and be kind (they'll make one special effort to shut you up if you beg) but ironically might reward what's arguably bad behavior
I still don't understand much at all, but these people don't.
If you connect to a sinful carnal environment...you'd be so used to it...it seems easier to just conform to it and rise in rank. It gets worse unto death
Acting clean or filthy...peopole hide what they are and don't realize it
A happy sinful drunk is still a happy sinful drunk. Being cheery and polite around spiritual fellowship is what I'd like. You can't hide from the light forever
 
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Devin P

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When we moved to Kentucky from Seattle, we went to a very nice little baptist church within a mile of our home in the sticks. Good people, nice pastor, etc. We had to leave because they had some very dogmatic views and I did not want to be guilty of "sowing discord". The last straw was when we had a sunday school class about alcohol being wrong no matter what. Every single proof text used from the bible talked about being drunk, and the tired old canard about "the wine was really grape juice" was used anywhere where it seemed to be discussed as positive. I just couldn't hurt my "weaker brothers" beyond a couple of anemic attempts to help them consider the opposite position.

Years later, I learned the phrase, "The tyranny of the weaker brother". I think that is interesting because now that we all have bibles that we can read, there should be no "weaker brothers" left.

BTW, there was a lot of obesity in that church, but they didn't preach much on gluttony.
Thank you for the share brother!

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that you guys had to go through that. I appreciate you sharing the phrase involving the weaker brothers though, for sure! I'm going to have to look into this phrase, I can definitely see where it could come from for sure!

Gluttony is one I struggle with. I'm in shape, but still. It's no excuse. I desire, and feel I'm called to a diet of fruits, veggies, grains and nuts. My problem is that I love sugar too much :x I don't mind meats, but I feel I should limit my intake of them because of how hard it is to find meats not loaded with so many carcinogens and medicines and steroids, etc. That and the meats that aren't are insanely expensive.
 
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christianforumsuser

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But people sin in their hearts and minds too
You might get constipated from letting it flow but the waste/purification is there

What's wrong with seeing a pretty [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
Or its use coming to mind
People could be logical but they're amidst this nearsighted carnal chaos
Why seek what's truly right when you can boast of being a scribe or Pharisee
 
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