Aid in dying for terminally ill

[jacorian]

This is such a hard issue & I've heard both sides advocating for & against. Given the nature of human behavior I do see potential for abuse. Understandably there are many across the globe who are subject to terminal death sentences often with pain. How does anyone negotiate the slippery slope? Is this God's dominion & the ill are so depressed. I have questions as to why there is this level of physical pain. It seems to me we have yet to make any encroachment against disease.

 

[Shodan]

Yes, there's a slippery slope and potential for abuse, but that is true no matter what. Should we waste a lot of resources causing unnecessary pain for people who are going to die anyway?

Used to be that medicine couldn't do much. Now we can do a lot. But should we, always? For Christians, death is not necessarily always the worst outcome.

My perspective is shaped by the fact that my father was a veterinarian. He euthanized thousands of animals, and, in general, people usually waited too long rather than acting too soon. Another factor is my fear of outliving my mind, as relatives of mine have done. I greatly fear the notion of wasting the investments I have for my wife's benefit on nursing homes and things like that that harm her, and don't benefit me.

My grandmother was 83, had cancer, and was far gone in dementia. The doctor wanted to put in a feeding tube. My dad said No, and she died a few weeks later. Did it make any difference? She was going to die anyway, one way or another. So in some sense, it was God's will that she was going to die. How would it help anything to waste $50,000 to keep her heart going for a few more weeks? And she was too out of it to suffer.

If they are going to die anyway, sooner is not worse than later. If an overdose of pain medication means sooner, but less pain, so be it (IMO). We pray "lead us not into temptation" and Jesus said that if you were persecuted in one town, it was OK to run to a different town - it is not His will that we incur needless and pointless suffering.

My $.02 worth, and cheap at half the price.

Regards,
Shodan

 

[Blade]

Well for me "terminally ill" is mans words and I have docs say 1 in 1000 this awful thing happens.. to that I said no.. I do not will not receive that in Jesus name. They were always wrong. Everything God does is life. No sickness no disease comes from the Father. As Christ said your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. There is no sickness there on and on. This is a fallen world. So when I talk to people in this case and all the time for prayer "what can you believe for". Thats' what I pray. Peter and John never once prayed to God or Christ nor asked "Oh Jesus if it be your will to heal" no they said after "why look at us as if we did this by our own power. That name faith in that name healed this man".

So any time man tells me it can't be done....haha they don't know God the great I am OT NT He is the same. What Christ did said was only what the Father said and that was His will. That word of God is His will. I knew elderly man I would visit and all he could do was moan no movement at all. So I would read or play the word of God to him. One day reading and just talking to God I said you gave me this burden for this man so I have a right to know why hes not being healed? He came right back with "remember when Daniel prayed?". I get stuck right there every time I remember this. I can't tell you have no words.. He said so much but with only four words.. wow. Any way I said if this is really you where is that written? Daniel 10:9-12. 12 "Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them."

See that whole story.. He said Satan has built up a hedge that a simple prayer is not enough. As a bother once said haha always you don't have any problems all you need is faith in God. Yet in my own family there are things God can not do anything. Why? When they say "this is something you can't pray away". God will never go against our will. Praise GOD He is for Doctors. Not sure I touched your question.

 

[Tinker Grey]

@Shodan,

Dude! Haven't seen you in forever. Welcome back.

 

[jacorian]

Both sides make very strong points. I guess where we stumble is we don't see anything redemptive about a painful death esp given it happens to so many people. Why did it not happen to Stalin or Hitler or Putin? Can't figure that one out. Can it be too easy to pull the plug--it may become too robotic. Is the procedure really for the patient or is it really to console the living who lack courage to go thru the mental struggle of watching. All but one apostle perished horribly. What is gained by such an event. And many of these people passed so young, they were doing such good work here, & their need is down here, not up in utopia. Again too as we age, I know I have seen this, people who figure into your life, losing them all. Why? Why them? They were needed here.

 

[FireDragon76]

Modern secular society is embracing this without accounting for the wisdom (or lack thereof) of doing so. In a society where suicide is normalized, it will eventually become routine and trivial. North America already has an epidemic of suicide.

 

[Shodan]

@Shodan,

Dude! Haven't seen you in forever. Welcome back.

Thanks! I am retired, so more time on my hands - maybe too much.

Is the procedure really for the patient or is it really to console the living who lack courage to go thru the mental struggle of watching.

Ideally, for both. The patient suffers less, and the living don't have to watch the suffering.

No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Every one is going to die. That is common to all mankind. But, maybe, so that we are not tempted to despair, and to doubt God's compassion, even assistance in dying is a way out of that temptation. Obviously that can be abused, and we kill people that we shouldn't. And yes, God can cure miraculously. But He usually doesn't. Miracles are rare, almost by definition. Otherwise they wouldn't be miracles.

Why should we go to the doctor at all, if God can cure us? He can, but He has also given us the means and power to relieve suffering with medicine, and thus we can participate in His work of mercy. Maybe even assistance in dying is part of that work.

May the Holy Spirit grant us the gift of discernment of the highest will of God.

Regards,
Shodan

 

[Robban]

One inturpritation of the resurection is,

"Let them return as they went and I will heal them."

One thing we cannot know is when we shall cease.

Psalms 39:5
"O Lord, let me know my end and what is the measure of my days,
that I may know when I will cease."

 

[Diamond7]

Given the nature of human behavior I do see potential for abuse.

There is already a lot of abuse without giving them written permission. It use to be they had to have your consent. Not anymore, they can do whatever they want to do to you to make their job easier.

 

[Whyayeman]

Pain relief can shorten the life remaining, but improve its quality. Many of us will have experienced the pain of watching a loved one suffer. Who in their right mind would prefer prolonged agony to a 'good death'?

 

[Whyayeman]

Not anymore, they can do whatever they want to do to you to make their job easier.

I don't think that is true.

 

[returnn23]

Helping someone to die should not be allowed. Since dying is something those who are healthy and under 50 never think about, a sudden illness could change that. Those who are older, but in good health, will usually live a relatively long life. But if they have health problems then their years may be shortened. No one knows just when they will die.

Doctors should first "Do no harm."

Christians should get counseling from Christian doctors. Catholics should seek guidance from their priest. Again, this is something most don't want to think about or get advice about when they're young and in good health. But if something should happen, find out what the best options are. There are painkillers available. Your life matters until the last moment.

 

[Whyayeman]

... Christians should get counseling from Christian doctors. Catholics should seek guidance from their priest. Again, this is something most don't want to think about or get advice about when they're young and in good health. But if something should happen, find out what the best options are. There are painkillers available. Your life matters until the last moment.

Fine, religious people can have counselling. I understand that some Christian denominations would take a very strong view against aid in dying, Catholics being an obvious example. We know what their counsel would be without the trouble of seeking it.

So for those people who follow certain faiths help in dying is out of the question; advice would never go beyond offering spiritual comfort. That is fine for those who believe. People who do not share those beliefs should not be bound by the rules of a group they are not part of.

 

[returnn23]

Fine, religious people can have counselling. I understand that some Christian denominations would take a very strong view against aid in dying, Catholics being an obvious example. We know what their counsel would be without the trouble of seeking it.

So for those people who follow certain faiths help in dying is out of the question; advice would never go beyond offering spiritual comfort. That is fine for those who believe. People who do not share those beliefs should not be bound by the rules of a group they are not part of.

Why the confrontational tone? You obviously know nothing about Catholic teaching and guidance regarding end of life care. And by the way, human dignity means care is required. Doctors are healers, first.

People who do not share those beliefs should take an honest look at what they are offering to people.

 

[Desk trauma]

People who do not share those beliefs should take an honest look at what they are offering to people.

Done. Now, why should I have to abide by your beliefs when I don’t hold them?

 

[returnn23]

Done. Now, why should I have to abide by your beliefs when I don’t hold them?

Why ask this question when you have already made up your mind?

 

[Desk trauma]

Why ask this question

Because I want the answer.

 

[returnn23]

Because I want the answer.

In a Democracy, both sides are heard. Both sides make their case.

 

[Desk trauma]

In a Democracy, both sides are heard. Both sides make their case.

Non answer is a non answer.

 

[returnn23]

Non answer is a non answer.

Give me the desired format for an answer that suits what you want.