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agnostic friend

aiki

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*new related request....post #15...*


a HS friend was an atheist & told me on the school bus not to talk about Jesus
I later became friends with her mom/we're still friends

recently asked "mom" if she believed in God
she said "I believe in science"
tried to question her more & seems she is an agnostic

I'm a Christian & all these years, I've been a friend
I failed to lead by example & help her to believe in God
what if God expected me to help her believe in God?
I have failed
the mom did not seem very open to hearing about God
her voice changed & seemed to shut down

what can I do?

Ask your friend what she means by "I believe in science." So do you, I'm sure. You believe there is a law of gravity, studied and described for us by science; you believe the earth orbits the sun in a solar system of nine planets (or eight, if you disqualify Pluto) which science has revealed to us; you believe that there is a microscopic world of molecules, atoms, and particles, invisible to your naked eye but which science informs us actually do exist. But trusting that science tells you true things about reality - to a degree, anyway - doesn't prevent you from also believing in God who tells you other higher, more important truths concerning reality.

I suspect what your friend means is that her belief in science somehow means she can't, or doesn't need to, believe in God. But this flies in the face of the many scientists who were/are theists, believers in God, some of whom were hugely important to the development of the scientific realm and to our understanding of physical reality. Newton, Keppler, Mendel, Pascal, Pasteur, Farraday and many more were eminent scientists who were also staunch believers in God. Many of them held their faith as complementary and integral to their scientific work. So, your friend's statement that she "believes in science" suggests a misunderstanding of the relationship between theism and science.

Dr. John Lennox analogized this way about the purpose and relationship of science to theism:

Imagine looking at a piece of paper on which are written many words. Science could examine the chemical make-up of the ink and paper, describing in detail what constitutes both; science could tell us the exact size and thickness of the paper, its degree of whiteness, its flexibility and tear-resistance, and so on. But doing these things, however exhaustively, tells us nothing about the semiotics - the meaning - of the written words themselves. We cannot get at the message the words convey solely by studying and describing the physical nature of the medium in which they are communicated.

When your friend says she "believes in science," she is contenting herself with the physical properties of the message of Creation rather than with the meaning communicated in it: God exists and He is personal, powerful, timeless and immaterial. (See the Kalam Cosmological Argument.)

Your friend is also taking what appears to be a scientistic or verificationist view of reality: Only what can be empirically-verified is true. But this statement cannot itself be verified, or proven true, by science. As a result, the statement refutes itself.

Anyway, you are not responsible for saving anyone. Salvation is entirely and only God's domain. He is the One - and the only One - who "gives repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25) Your job (and mine) is to share the Gospel with the lost, to sow the seed of it, perhaps water the seed others have planted, and then, maybe, to harvest the fruit of that seed when God has grown it to the place where harvesting it is possible. We are to be prepared to "give an answer to every person who asks of us the reason for the hope that lies within us." (1 Peter 3:15) This means having at least a cursory knowledge of Christian apologetics, of the arguments for the historicity and veracity of the Resurrection of Christ, and a deep, personal, daily experience of God. The Christian is also, in the character of their living, to be "salt" and "light" such that the unbeliever has cause to glorify the Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:13-16)

In the end, though, it is God who draws sinners to Christ (John 6:44), who convicts them of their sin (John 16:8), who illuminates their understanding to the saving truth of the Gospel (John 16:13; 2 Timothy 2:25). We are merely signposts, ambassadors, living letters, pointing to Christ and to the forgiveness and salvation we can obtain in and through him.

Really, the very best way to be a bright, shining light for Christ is to love him with all of your heart. A guilty, dutiful feeling that you need to tell others about him, suggests that he is not the "Divine Obsession" he ought to be in your life. When you are taking deep delight in knowing and walking with him, when your relationship with him is rich with the love, and joy, and peace that he is, you will naturally and constantly enthuse about him, taking every opportunity to extol his greatness and the goodness of knowing and walking with him.
 
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mama2one

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Athiests are not friends of God.
from what "mom" said last time we spoke, sounds like she is agnostic....that she doesn't know if there is a God or not

she's always been nice to me, like a second mom
she says "I love you" when we hang up phone


she worked as a nurse in long term care facilities which is not an easy job
from my point of view, as a friend, I'd say she's a good person
 
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mama2one

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I suspect what your friend means is that her belief in science somehow means she can't, or doesn't need to, believe in God.

what is strange to me is that her mom was religious as well as a good friend of hers when her kids were young

from what I gathered, her mom was super religious which "may" have turned her against religion & God

I reminded her that she met her husband at a church camp & she said "that doesn't mean anything."
 
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mama2one

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Anyway, you are not responsible for saving anyone.

A guilty, dutiful feeling that you need to tell others about him, suggests that he is not the "Divine Obsession" he ought to be in your life.

the guilt comes from us being friends a long time, since I was in high school
she was like a second mom to me back then

now that she's older, I can't help but think I missed opportunities to turn her to Christ

last time we spoke, I said "God led us to adopt a child. I don't believe we would have adopted otherwise."

her response "that's nice."
 
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aiki

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the guilt comes from us being friends a long time, since I was in high school
she was like a second mom to me back then

now that she's older, I can't help but think I missed opportunities to turn her to Christ

last time we spoke, I said "God led us to adopt a child. I don't believe we would have adopted otherwise."

her response "that's nice."

But, you see, it doesn't really hang on you to save anyone. In fact, God doesn't need you at all in order to save your friend. He lets us in on the process of His saving people so we might partake in the joy of doing so, but He isn't kept from saving anyone if we don't partake.

There's no need, then, to worry over lost opportunities. No one goes to hell because we failed to properly evangelize them. God would never let the eternal destiny of lost people rest in the hands of the weak, ignorant, often selfish people that we are. Thank goodness.
 
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seashale76

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been 3 wks & will be calling my friend again

how should I bring up the subject of God again?
thinking of asking "don't you want to go to heaven?"

however, since she doesn't know if there is a God or not, my guess is she'll say "this life is it."

how do I crack her shell?
Stop. Seriously. You pray for people like that- and you don't mention you're praying for them either. You just pray. You can't argue anyone into becoming a believer. Once they've expressed zero interest you leave them alone- otherwise you're guilty of harassing them.
 
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seashale76

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God uses people!

we are His hands and feet
God draws people to Himself- and perhaps you're not the one God wants to use here. Perhaps God wants you to live by example and prayer. We also can't force people to believe and when they express zero interest you leave them alone and stop preaching at them. Do you think your apologetics approach is going to work? You'll only wind up having them cut contact with you.
 
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mama2one

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spoke with friend this wk
I again said sorry that her daughter-in-law died

she said "she's in heaven now"

I'm confused
if one doesn't know if there is a God or not, how can one believe in heaven?

also, when we spoke about spring coming soon, she said "Praise the Lord!"

what is going on here?
 
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MissFaithfullyHis

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*new related request....post #15...*


a HS friend was an atheist & told me on the school bus not to talk about Jesus
I later became friends with her mom/we're still friends

recently asked "mom" if she believed in God
she said "I believe in science"
tried to question her more & seems she is an agnostic

I'm a Christian & all these years, I've been a friend
I failed to lead by example & help her to believe in God
what if God expected me to help her believe in God?
I have failed
the mom did not seem very open to hearing about God
her voice changed & seemed to shut down

what can I do?

I pray that your friend will learn to unharden her heart. I know exactly why she responded that way because of ego and pride. As a former atheist, the idea that there's a Creator seems childish and because they haven't "seen proof." Top of that, it would aggravate us and now I know why: Because we love living in sin. What God thinks is sinful, nonbelievers (atheist, agnostic, what have you's) do not. The world teaches us to be selfish and self-righteous, and also has done a great job of hiding (or steering away from) God's truth, wisdom and light!

I think praying for your friend is all you can do for now. You will likely irritate her more if you continue to bring it up, but if she ever gives her life to our Lord, I guarantee you she will remember you reaching out - I certainly have when I turned to Christ last year and I immediately thought about old friends and acquaintances who previously shared the gospel.
 
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