Age of Accountability

[PrincetonGuy]

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Which is exactly what I have done.


Ezekiel 18:20 ESV
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Mark 10:16 ESV
16 And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

Matthew 19:14 ESV
14 but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke 18:16 ESV
16 But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.

No, you have taken out of context four verses from the Bible and represented them to teach a doctrine that is not taught in the Bible—indeed a doctrine that contradicts the doctrines of original sin and justification by faith.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Here is CH Spurgeons position on this:
We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved. –C.H. Spurgeon

Some people like to choose and pick the attributes of God that come in handy to support their favorite doctrines. The tone of the word of God throughout the Bible is God’s wrath upon the unbeliever, and God’s forgiveness upon the believer. The nature of God includes His abhorrence and intolerance of sin as well as His forgiveness toward those who believe and trust in Him for the forgiveness of their sins, including their sin in Adam. God, without His holiness, is not God. Sin is atoned for by grace through faith, and not by anything else.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

No, you have taken out of context four verses from the Bible and represented them to teach a doctrine that is not taught in the Bible—indeed a doctrine that contradicts the doctrines of original sin and justification by faith.

I disagree.

Some people like to choose and pick the attributes of God that come in handy to support their favorite doctrines. The tone of the word of God throughout the Bible is God’s wrath upon the unbeliever, and God’s forgiveness upon the believer. The nature of God includes His abhorrence and intolerance of sin as well as His forgiveness toward those who believe and trust in Him for the forgiveness of their sins, including their sin in Adam. God, without His holiness, is not God. Sin is atoned for by grace through faith, and not by anything else.

I agree that is the case with those who have reached the age of accountability and are of sound mind.

 

[AndOne]

I don't know guys - this really isn't addressed in the word specifically enough for me to want to form a doctrine around it. I'm uncomfortable with the term "age of accountability" for the very reasons that Princeton guy is bringing out here.

BUT

I also believe that God who is a Just, Righteous, and Holy God will always do the right thing. I have a child who was miscarried many years ago. I have left the fate of that baby's soul in the hands of a good and righteous God and sleep well at night knowing his or her ultimnate fate is in the Lord's hands. If I had a child whose mental capacity has severly handicapped and could never understand the gospel - I would also not loose any sleep over the fate of his soul - knowing that our God is good and righteous and in complete control of that situation.

I think to say there is an "age of accountability" puts God in a box. I also think to say that all infants, young children, and people who are severely mentally handicapped, etc. are bound for hell also puts God in a box. Both are wrong and I think we should let God be God in these matters.

Do you all think I might be off base here?

 

[Hammster]

I don't know guys - this really isn't addressed in the word specifically enough for me to want to form a doctrine around it. I'm uncomfortable with the term "age of accountability" for the very reasons that Princeton guy is bringing out here.

BUT

I also believe that God who is a Just, Righteous, and Holy God will always do the right thing. I have a child who was miscarried many years ago. I have left the fate of that baby's soul in the hands of a good and righteous God and sleep well at night knowing his or her ultimnate fate is in the Lord's hands. If I had a child whose mental capacity has severly handicapped and could never understand the gospel - I would also not loose any sleep over the fate of his soul - knowing that our God is good and righteous and in complete control of that situation.

I think to say there is an "age of accountability" puts God in a box. I also think to say that all infants, young children, and people who are severely mentally handicapped, etc. are bound for hell also puts God in a box. Both are wrong and I think we should let God be God in these matters.

Do you all think I might be off base here?

I agree. I see either elect or non-elect. To say that there is a certain age where one is accountable seems nonsensical. If a non-elect child all of the sudden becomes accountable at a certain age, then the most loving thing we could do would be to kill them in infancy to ensure that they would be elected.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

I agree. I see either elect or non-elect. To say that there is a certain age where one is accountable seems nonsensical. If a non-elect child all of the sudden becomes accountable at a certain age, then the most loving thing we could do would be to kill them in infancy to ensure that they would be elected.

That would be murder and would show a lack of faith in God's providence.

 

[Hammster]

That would be murder and would show a lack of faith in God's providence.

And providence is the problem with your view. Age of accountability is only hypothetical.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

And providence is the problem with your view. Age of accountability is only hypothetical.

There is nothing outside of God's providence. I agree with Spurgeon.


"We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved." –C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Hammster]

There is nothing outside of God's providence. I agree with Spurgeon.

"We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved." -C.H. Spurgeon

Right. There's nothing outside of God's providence. That's why your argument is nonsensical. You are saying that it is possible for a non-elect child to become elect if they die in infancy. Or, that a child would be elect if they died in infancy, but since they didn't, they could become reprobate. You are dealing with hypotheticals that cannot be proven or sustained. God, in His providence, will call the elect home in His good time. And the reprobate will be called to account in His good time.

 

[Skala]

Salvation is by grace through faith. The Bible does not teach that babies are justified by any means other than by grace through faith. If babies are justified by some other means, perhaps some adults are too. Let us not begin to teach that justification by grace through faith is only one means of justification and salvation.

Is it your position, then, that zero infants who die will got to heaven?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

There is nothing outside of God's providence.

Every sinful act of man is of man rather than of God and therefore outside of God’s providence.

I agree with Spurgeon.


"We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved." –C.H. Spurgeon

Spurgeon lived in a day in which when our knowledge of the Greek language was comparatively poor and our resources for studying the Bible were comparatively primitive. Had Spurgeon had the knowledge of the Greek language that we have today and the resources for studying the Bible that we have today, his theology would probably have been no less different than is the theology in the very large majority of our Baptist churches today.

 

[AndOne]

Spurgeon lived in a day in which when our knowledge of the Greek language was comparatively poor and our resources for studying the Bible were comparatively primitive. Had Spurgeon had the knowledge of the Greek language that we have today and the resources for studying the Bible that we have today, his theology would probably have been no less different than is the theology in the very large majority of our Baptist churches today.

I'm sorry - no disrespect intended - but this statement is not an accurate assesment at all....

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I don't know guys - this really isn't addressed in the word specifically enough for me to want to form a doctrine around it. I'm uncomfortable with the term "age of accountability" for the very reasons that Princeton guy is bringing out here.

BUT

I also believe that God who is a Just, Righteous, and Holy God will always do the right thing. I have a child who was miscarried many years ago. I have left the fate of that baby's soul in the hands of a good and righteous God and sleep well at night knowing his or her ultimnate fate is in the Lord's hands. If I had a child whose mental capacity has severly handicapped and could never understand the gospel - I would also not loose any sleep over the fate of his soul - knowing that our God is good and righteous and in complete control of that situation.

I think to say there is an "age of accountability" puts God in a box. I also think to say that all infants, young children, and people who are severely mentally handicapped, etc. are bound for hell also puts God in a box. Both are wrong and I think we should let God be God in these matters.

Do you all think I might be off base here?

I agree that God will always do the right thing—but in accord with His standards, not ours. I also agree that attempting to put God into a box built by men is foolishness, and that in our theology we need to allow God to be God.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I'm sorry - no disrespect intended - but this statement is not an accurate assesment at all....

Numerous recent Greek Grammars and lexicons prove the accuracy of my assessment, as do also literally thousands of papers published in academic journals and hundreds of exegetical commentaries on the Greek text of the individual books of the New Testament. The abandonment of much of Calvinism by our Baptist churches during the past 150 years further proves the accuracy of my assessment.

 

[Hammster]

Numerous recent Greek Grammars and lexicons prove the accuracy of my assessment, as do also literally thousands of papers published in academic journals and hundreds of exegetical commentaries on the Greek text of the individual books of the New Testament. The abandonment of much of Calvinism by our Baptist churches during the past 150 years further proves the accuracy of my assessment.

Actually is validates Paul (the first reformer).

 

[Skala]

Every sinful act of man is of man rather than of God and therefore outside of God’s providence

So God had nothing to do with Christ's crucifixion?

Christ dying for the sins of the world was simply God using a bad situation and making it into a good one, but wasn't Plan A from the beginning?

 

[Skala]

The abandonment of much of Calvinism by our Baptist churches during the past 150 years further proves the accuracy of my assessment.

I'd say it's a result of worse and worse theology, ignorance of church history, bad logic, emotional thinking, tradition, Finney-ism decision-ism, decisional regeneration, altar calls, easy-believism, and more and more free will idol worship.

But I'm biased

I'm with Augustus Toplady, author of the famous Hymn Rock of Ages:

"Arminianism came from the Church of Rome and leads back again to the pit whence it was digged."

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I'd say it's a result of worse and worse theology, ignorance of church history, bad logic, emotional thinking, tradition, Finney-ism decision-ism, decisional regeneration, altar calls, easy-believism, and more and more free will idol worship.

But I'm biased

I'm with Augustus Toplady, author of the famous Hymn Rock of Ages:

"Arminianism came from the Church of Rome and leads back again to the pit whence it was digged."

Recent Biblical scholarship has already made Calvinism an endangered species, and the growing awareness and acceptance of this scholarship is bringing Calvinism to extinction. As a consequence, we are seeing today a greatly renewed interest in the writings of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers who lived and taught before the Church and Her theology became contaminated with the traditions of men and systems of theology that contradict the message of the New Testament. The doctrine of the age of accountability directly contradicts the doctrines of original sin and justification by faith and should have no place in our Baptist churches.

 

[Hupomone10]

hmm...

Well, I read this whole thread, and it seems that we don't know. At least, I admit I don't know.

One thing I'm sure, God will do the right thing. Whatever He does, it will be the most righteous action, the most holy, and the most loving. And when we see Him, He will wipe away our tears and we will agree with Him.

Beyond that, I don't know. But if I've learned anything in the last 10 years it's that I'm powerless over others, and over events that I'm powerless over o, sounds stupid maybe, but how often do we not believe that?)

 

[Isolation]

I remember reading a passage where when someones child died, he stopped mourning and started eating again (because he was fasting for his dieing child). He then basically said "why should I mourn or fast, what will it accomplish? I will see him in the next life." Was this child part of Gods flock already or was it before he could commit him self to God? If God is unchanging, as we know he is, then that child is sleeping till the resurrection of Christ. Instead of judgment. So if he is unchanging as I said then shouldn't this be the same for todays time?