Age of Accountability

[Osage Bluestem]

Here is my position on that:

Age of Accountability « Osage Bluestem

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Here is my position on that:

Age of Accountability « Osage Bluestem

It is often said that the bible never mentions an age of accountability. However, I believe it does indeed deal with the age of accountability implicitly in the original Greek.

Mark 10:16 ESV
16 And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.
The word here used for blessed is eulogeo. It is the same word that we get our english word eulogy from. It means to speak well of, bless, or praise. It is listed in Strong’s as number G2127.

G2127
εὐλογέω
eulogeō
yoo-log-eh’-o
From a compound of G2095 and G3056; to speak well of, that is, (religiously) to bless (thank or invoke a benediction upon, prosper): – bless, praise.

Jesus is never contradictory and always speaks the truth. If he spoke well of someone or praised them then there is good reason to do so, because it’s true. The Trinity is never in conflict so if the Son speaks well of you so does the Father and the Holy Spirit. Because of this passage I personally believe that even though children physically die as a result of the effects of the sin of Adam they were born into as part of the human race, they have not yet committed sin of their own doing so they are not guilty of their own personal sin and are therefore not condemned to eternal spiritual death by God.

Ezekiel 18:20 ESV
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

So, that is why it is not contradictory for Jesus to speak well of the little children even though they are part of the wicked and fallen human race. They bear the physical effects of the sin of Adam but everyone bears the spiritual effects of their own sin.

I agree that the age of accountability isn’t specified biblically and will indeed be different for each individual, but I do believe the age of accountability is indeed scriptural based on the passages above.

I believe therefore that death in early childhood is a mark of election. These children return to their maker guilty of no sin of their own and are redeemed of the stain of the sin of Adam by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ who speaks well of them before his Father.

–David

Romans 5:12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13. for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

In this passage, Paul teaches the doctrine of original sin—we all, regardless of our age, sinned in Adam, the proof of the doctrine being given in vv. 13-14. Every baby, other than Jesus, sinned in Adam, and that is why babies are subject to death—both physically and spiritually. Jesus blessed little children, but He did NOT pronounce them innocent of their sin in Adam. Moreover, He did NOT pronounce them innocent of the sins of their parents. In the second of the Ten Commandments, we read,

Exodus 20:4. “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5. “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6. but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”

Furthermore, we read in Deuteronomy,

Deut. 28:18. “Cursed shall be” the offspring of your body and the produce of your ground, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock.

Even if the blessing of Jesus upon the little children that he blessed had pronounced them innocent of their sin in Adam, that blessing would be of no help to the billions of children whom He did not bless. Moreover, if babies and little children automatically go to heaven when they die, abortionists would be heroes because every child that they abort would be guaranteed eternity in heaven rather than the possibility that they would become disbelievers and spend eternity in hell. Indeed, would it not be the moral responsibility of all parents to kill their children before they reach the age of accountability lest their children become disbelievers and spend eternity in hell?

I am aware that a small minority of Baptists still believe in Calvin’s doctrine of election, but if that doctrine were true, every elected baby and small child would automatically go to heaven just like every elected older child and adult, and every non-elected baby and small child would automatically go to hell just like every non-elected older child and adult. But, of course, Calvin believed that all elected babies and small children would be baptized before they died. Babies and small children who died prior to baptism would necessarily have been among the non-elect—and therefore would be cast into hell for eternity.

Moreover, is it responsible to base one’s understanding of Greek words upon the very old and outdated definitions given to us by James Strong in 1890 rather than upon the recent scholarship found in A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Early Christian Literature, Third Edition, by Bauer, Danker, Arndt, and Gingrich?

(All quotations from Scripture are from the Updated NASB, 1995)

 

[Osage Bluestem]

He did NOT pronounce them innocent of their sin in Adam.

No one said he did.

Even if the blessing of Jesus upon the little children that he blessed had pronounced them innocent of their sin in Adam

No one said the blessing pronounced them innocent of the sin of Adam. If they were innocent of that sin they wouldn't die at all.

Calvin believed that all elected babies and small children would be baptized before they died. Babies and small children who died prior to baptism would necessarily have been among the non-elect—and therefore would be cast into hell for eternity.

Baptists don't believe the bible teaches baptismal regeneration. Nor do we believe in baptizing infants.

However, most of us certainly do believe in the age of accountability.

 

[ashout]

I think the age of acountabilty is 20-30 months old. at that point, they know they shouldn't be doing certain things and sure enough, they all do them anyway. not that you can tell what they will be like all grown up, eventually you reach the age where you make a become sorrowful at having done what is wrong and you realize you prefer what is right. this age could come at any time, it is when you repent in your heart. ...or it may never come...

 

[Skala]

I am aware that a small minority of Baptists still believe in Calvin’s doctrine of election

It's actually the Apostle Paul's doctrine of election. Just sayin'.

PG is right to point out Romans 5 flies in the face of the doctrine of the age of accountability.

Paul clearly teaches that men are guilty in Adam. Look at his argument.

The wages of sin is death.
He says that sin is not counted where there is no law, and the law came through Moses.
Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses. In other words, men experienced death (the wages of sin) before Moses had given the law. So they were guilty for sin, but sin is not counted where there is no law. So that means they weren't dying for their own sins (sin is not counted where there is no law), but they are guilty for Adam's sin. Thus they experienced death.

That's the doctrine of original sin.

Paul also says Adam is a type of Christ.

If Adam doesn't represent a person (in that a person is guilty for Adam's sin) then neither does Christ, as Christ is a type of Adam.

In other words, if you deny that a person is represented by Adam then you must also deny that a person is represented by Christ.

That means if you deny original sin, you also deny the doctrine of salvation.

I can't help conclude, based on the Apostle Paul's teaching, that the age of accountability doesn't exist but instead flies in the face of what Paul is trying to teach us about our guilt in Adam.

Now let me approach this from another angle. I realize why the age of accountability was invented. It was invented because people wanted a way to comfort grieving parents who lost a child.

But that is not the proper way to comfort families. Inventing lies is not the proper way to help Christians, but rather, telling them the truth is.

Salvation is by grace, and if you believe in the doctrine of election and predestination (as all Christians should), and that God saves whomever he desires to save, you can rightly believe (like I do) that all infants who die are God's elect.

Therefore you make God's free, unmerited grace in election the reason for the salvation of infants, and thus the reason for the comfort of parents. You don't go dismantling Biblical theology, and you don't water down the doctrine of sin. It's one of the most important doctrines in the Bible. If you attack Original Sin (that we are guilty in Adam, not merely for our own sins), then you also attack the doctrine of salvation.

 

[ashout]

It's actually the Apostle Paul's doctrine of election. Just sayin'.

PG is right to point out Romans 5 flies in the face of the doctrine of the age of accountability.

Paul clearly teaches that men are guilty in Adam. Look at his argument.

The wages of sin is death.
He says that sin is not counted where there is no law, and the law came through Moses.
Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses. In other words, men experienced death (the wages of sin) before Moses had given the law. So they were guilty for sin, but sin is not counted where there is no law. So that means they weren't dying for their own sins (sin is not counted where there is no law), but they are guilty for Adam's sin. Thus they experienced death.

That's the doctrine of original sin.

Paul also says Adam is a type of Christ.

If Adam doesn't represent a person (in that a person is guilty for Adam's sin) then neither does Christ, as Christ is a type of Adam.

In other words, if you deny that a person is represented by Adam then you must also deny that a person is represented by Christ.

That means if you deny original sin, you also deny the doctrine of salvation.

I can't help conclude, based on the Apostle Paul's teaching, that the age of accountability doesn't exist but instead flies in the face of what Paul is trying to teach us about our guilt in Adam.

Now let me approach this from another angle. I realize why the age of accountability was invented. It was invented because people wanted a way to comfort grieving parents who lost a child.

But that is not the proper way to comfort families. Inventing lies is not the proper way to help Christians, but rather, telling them the truth is.

Salvation is by grace, and if you believe in the doctrine of election and predestination (as all Christians should), and that God saves whomever he desires to save, you can rightly believe (like I do) that all infants who die are God's elect.

Therefore you make God's free, unmerited grace in election the reason for the salvation of infants, and thus the reason for the comfort of parents. You don't go dismantling Biblical theology, and you don't water down the doctrine of sin. It's one of the most important doctrines in the Bible. If you attack Original Sin (that we are guilty in Adam, not merely for our own sins), then you also attack the doctrine of salvation.

whos sin do you die from, yours or Adams? the bible say's let each man be punished for his own sins, not that of his father.

 

[Skala]

So basically you ignore Paul's entire argument in Romans 5?

Rom 5:12-14
(12) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
(13) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
(14) Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

Obviously each man will be judged for the sin he commits. But that doesn't change the fact that primarily, first and foremost, men are guilty in Adam.

IF Adam doesn't represent you, ashout, how does Christ, as Paul says Adam was a type of Christ?

 

[Hammster]

Here is my position on that:

Age of Accountability « Osage Bluestem

When does He unbless them?

 

[ashout]

So basically you ignore Paul's entire argument in Romans 5?

Rom 5:12-14
(12) Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
(13) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
(14) Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

Obviously each man will be judged for the sin he commits. But that doesn't change the fact that primarily, first and foremost, men are guilty in Adam.

IF Adam doesn't represent you, ashout, how does Christ, as Paul says Adam was a type of Christ?

those verses arn't saying what you think they are. they say "sin came into the world through one man" what that means is that there was no sin, then after the man came he sinned therefore there was a sin in the world, thus the saying "sin entered the world". they are NOT Saying "all mankind would be pure if not for Adam." we are impure like adam becuase if ANY of us were in Adam's place, we would have sinned too. thus we are "guilty of Adam's sin".

you've misread the verses.

 

[Skala]

Simply saying I am misinterpreting them is not the same as exegeting the passage to prove that I am.

Men died between Adam and Moses before they were guilty of breaking the law. Explain that.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

When does He unbless them?

I think that since they are children they physically die as a result of Adam's sin. However they are not condemned to eternal death because they have committed no sins of their own. I believe Ezekiel is quite clear than men die for their own sins and I believe that is talking about spiritual death not physical death.

So whenever a child is old enough to bear true responsibility for his sin I believe he has reached the age of accountability.

As pointed out the word translated as bless is eulogeo meaning to speak well of. It is the same word from which we get eulogy. So, if Christ speaks well of children (eulogises them) it must be true that there is something to speak well of as they are made in the image of God and Christ did say "for such is the kindgom of heaven" and it must indicate there is a certain age of accountability because if they were guilty of their own personal sin then Christ would have no true just reason to speak well of them.

 

[Hammster]

I think that since they are children they physically die as a result of Adam's sin. However they are not condemned to eternal death because they have committed no sins of their own. I believe Ezekiel is quite clear than men die for their own sins and I believe that is talking about spiritual death not physical death.

So whenever a child is old enough to bear true responsibility for his sin I believe he has reached the age of accountability.

As pointed out the word translated as bless is eulogeo meaning to speak well of. It is the same word from which we get eulogy. So, if Christ speaks well of children (eulogises them) it must be true that there is something to speak well of as they are made in the image of God and Christ did say "for such is the kindgom of heaven" and it must indicate there is a certain age of accountability because if they were guilty of their own personal sin then Christ would have no true just reason to speak well of them.

Is it only elect children who die, then, before the age of accountability?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Is it only elect children who die, then, before the age of accountability?

It seems that way to me. No one is saved unless they are elected by God to be saved. God is sovereign and decides the amount of days for everyone.

The Westminster confession of faith deals with this in Chapter 10 section 3.

III. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit,[12] who works when, and where, and how He pleases:[13] so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.[14]

The LBCF 1689 echos the same in Chapter 10 section 3:

Paragraph 3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit;10 who works when, and where, and how He pleases;11 so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
10 John 3:3, 5, 6
11 John 3:8

We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved. –C.H. Spurgeon

Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven by C.H. Spurgeon

 

[PrincetonGuy]

those verses arn't saying what you think they are. they say "sin came into the world through one man" what that means is that there was no sin, then after the man came he sinned therefore there was a sin in the world, thus the saying "sin entered the world". they are NOT Saying "all mankind would be pure if not for Adam." we are impure like adam becuase if ANY of us were in Adam's place, we would have sinned too. thus we are "guilty of Adam's sin".

you've misread the verses.

If Skala misread the verses, our Baptist Bible colleges and seminaries are teaching contrary to the teaching of the Bible!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Salvation is by grace, and if you believe in the doctrine of election and predestination (as all Christians should), and that God saves whomever he desires to save, you can rightly believe (like I do) that all infants who die are God's elect.

Therefore you make God's free, unmerited grace in election the reason for the salvation of infants, and thus the reason for the comfort of parents. You don't go dismantling Biblical theology, and you don't water down the doctrine of sin. It's one of the most important doctrines in the Bible. If you attack Original Sin (that we are guilty in Adam, not merely for our own sins), then you also attack the doctrine of salvation.

Salvation is by grace through faith. The Bible does not teach that babies are justified by any means other than by grace through faith. If babies are justified by some other means, perhaps some adults are too. Let us not begin to teach that justification by grace through faith is only one means of justification and salvation.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I think that since they are children they physically die as a result of Adam's sin. However they are not condemned to eternal death because they have committed no sins of their own.

One is free to think whatever he may like, but I believe that we should base our beliefs upon the Bible rather than upon mere speculation.

I believe Ezekiel is quite clear than men die for their own sins and I believe that is talking about spiritual death not physical death.

Are the Ten Commandments merely the imagination of Moses, or are they the inspired word of God?

Exodus 20:4. “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5. “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6. but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.”

So whenever a child is old enough to bear true responsibility for his sin I believe he has reached the age of accountability.

Again, one is free to think whatever he may like, but I believe that we should base our beliefs upon the Bible rather than upon mere speculation.

As pointed out the word translated as bless is eulogeo meaning to speak well of. It is the same word from which we get eulogy. So, if Christ speaks well of children (eulogises them) it must be true that there is something to speak well of as they are made in the image of God and Christ did say "for such is the kindgom of heaven" and it must indicate there is a certain age of accountability because if they were guilty of their own personal sin then Christ would have no true just reason to speak well of them.

This paragraph demonstrates the consequences of relying upon the seriously outdated and incorrect “Greek Dictionary of the New Testament” found in the back of Strong’s concordance. The Greek word ευλογεω, in Mark 10:16 means the same thing as the same word in Deut. 28:4 in the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament,

Deut. 28:4. “Blessed shall be the offspring of your body and the produce of your ground and the offspring of your beasts, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock.”

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with “speaking well of” during a eulogy at a funeral or anywhere else!

(All quotations from Scripture are from the Updated NASB, 1995, but with my emphasis in underlined type)

 

[Osage Bluestem]

One is free to think whatever he may like, but I believe that we should base our beliefs upon the Bible rather than upon mere speculation.

Which is exactly what I have done.


Ezekiel 18:20 ESV
20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Mark 10:16 ESV
16 And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

Matthew 19:14 ESV
14 but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke 18:16 ESV
16 But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

It seems that way to me. No one is saved unless they are elected by God to be saved. God is sovereign and decides the amount of days for everyone.

The Westminster confession of faith deals with this in Chapter 10 section 3.

The Westminster Confession of Faith also says,

CHAPTER XXVIII.
Of Baptism.
I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church, but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his Church until the end of the world.
II. The outward element to be used in the sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the gospel, lawfully called thereunto.
III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person.
IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized.
V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance, yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it, or that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.
VI. The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited and conferred by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.
VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered to any person.

Which part of the Westminster Confession of Faith is true, and which is not?

The LBCF 1689 echos the same in Chapter 10 section 3:

The London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 also says,

Chapter 14: Of Saving Faith

1. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; by which also, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened.
( 2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 10:14, 17; Luke 17:5; 1 Peter 2:2; Acts 20:32 )

2. By this faith a Christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the Word for the authority of God himself, and also apprehendeth an excellency therein above all other writings and all things in the world, as it bears forth the glory of God in his attributes, the excellency of Christ in his nature and offices, and the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit in his workings and operations: and so is enabled to cast his soul upon the truth thus believed; and also acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come; but the principal acts of saving faith have immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, and resting upon him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.
( Acts 24:14; Psalms 27:7-10; Psalms 119:72; 2 Timothy 1:12; John 14:14; Isaiah 66:2; Hebrews 11:13; John 1:12; Acts 16:31; Galatians 2:20; Acts 15:11 )

3. This faith, although it be different in degrees, and may be weak or strong, yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kind or nature of it, as is all other saving grace, from the faith and common grace of temporary believers; and therefore, though it may be many times assailed and weakened, yet it gets the victory, growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.
( Hebrews 5:13, 14; Matthew 6:30; Romans 4:19, 20; 2 Peter 1:1; Ephesians 6:16; 1 John 5:4, 5; Hebrews 6:11, 12; Colossians 2:2; Hebrews 12:2 )

Which part of the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 is true, and which is not?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Here is CH Spurgeons position on this:

We know that infants enter the kingdom, for we are convinced that all of our race who die in infancy are included in the election of grace, and partake in the redemption wrought out by our Lord Jesus. Whatever some may think, the whole spirit and tone of the Word of God, as well as the nature of God Himself, lead us to believe that all who leave this world as babes are saved. –C.H. Spurgeon

Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven by C.H. Spurgeon

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Which part of the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 is true, and which is not?

The LBCF is a very sound confession.

It is true that after a child reaches the age of accountability then he must repent of his sins and trust in Christ to be saved. It is also true that before he reaches that age he isn't culpable for sins of his own doing.